Grail Achieved, Slight Issue.

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Sumdumguy
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Grail Achieved, Slight Issue.

Postby Sumdumguy » Wed Mar 11, 2020 3:15 pm

Okay, so my Ti A.T.R came today and I'm ecstatic to finally have one. Great, aside from a few issues.

It was advertised as new, but is clearly not. I'll bring that up with the seller, not a HUGE issue. I just don't appreciate being misled about the condition, tell me up front.

However, the real issue lies in the late lockup(like 100%) and up/down blade play when locked. Kind of a bummer.

I'll probably send it in to Spyderco and see if they can fix it, I just figured someone here may have some insight into it before I ship it out.

Hopefully, they can repair it. I'd be sad if I finally got one of my grails and it didn't operate properly.

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Spydergirl88
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Re: Grail Achieved, Slight Issue.

Postby Spydergirl88 » Wed Mar 11, 2020 3:21 pm

Since it's a long discontinued model and an integral comp lock, I am not sure SFO can fix it. If it were me I would return this to the seller for a refund/work it out with PayPal to get your money back. Sorry that this happened, what a bummer

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Re: Grail Achieved, Slight Issue.

Postby Spydergirl88 » Wed Mar 11, 2020 3:23 pm

Pretty shady of the ebay seller to not include a picture of the late lock-up, they knew this knife was not right and sold it anyways

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Evil D
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Re: Grail Achieved, Slight Issue.

Postby Evil D » Wed Mar 11, 2020 3:49 pm

Sorry you got scammed. I don't mean to pour salt into the wound but this is ultimately why I don't like this lock design.
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bearfacedkiller
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Re: Grail Achieved, Slight Issue.

Postby bearfacedkiller » Wed Mar 11, 2020 4:00 pm

I agree, I would return it and keep looking.
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Sumdumguy
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Re: Grail Achieved, Slight Issue.

Postby Sumdumguy » Wed Mar 11, 2020 4:14 pm

Evil D wrote:
Wed Mar 11, 2020 3:49 pm
Sorry you got scammed. I don't mean to pour salt into the wound but this is ultimately why I don't like this lock design.
Eh, if it's not repairable I'll get my money back. To be fair, even with the lockup and blade play, I doubt it is possible for the lock to fail or come unlocked.

As for the lock design, this is from the early days of this lock. I guarantee that technology and knowledge advances will allow for proper tolerances and material choices(steel interface).

Aside from being a grail, I was buying this to learn about the lock, to better implement it into a design I am working on. In light of this development, I won't be touching this particular knife.

It'll all turn out well, in the end.
"If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so."

-Thomas Jefferson

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kennethsime
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Re: Grail Achieved, Slight Issue.

Postby kennethsime » Wed Mar 11, 2020 4:23 pm

For the ignorant among us, what is "late lockup" ? Is there a small gap between the blade and the lock bar, on the right-hand side?
I'm happiest with Micarta and Tool Steel.

Top three in the rotation: GCM + K390 Straight Spine Stretch, NCM + ZWear Shaman, 204P Millie.

Sumdumguy
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Re: Grail Achieved, Slight Issue.

Postby Sumdumguy » Wed Mar 11, 2020 4:29 pm

kennethsime wrote:
Wed Mar 11, 2020 4:23 pm
For the ignorant among us, what is "late lockup" ? Is there a small gap between the blade and the lock bar, on the right-hand side?
The lockbar extends all the way across the lockface, touching(or very near it) the opposite scale.
"If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so."

-Thomas Jefferson

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kennethsime
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Re: Grail Achieved, Slight Issue.

Postby kennethsime » Wed Mar 11, 2020 5:04 pm

Sumdumguy wrote:
Wed Mar 11, 2020 4:29 pm
kennethsime wrote:
Wed Mar 11, 2020 4:23 pm
For the ignorant among us, what is "late lockup" ? Is there a small gap between the blade and the lock bar, on the right-hand side?
The lockbar extends all the way across the lockface, touching(or very near it) the opposite scale.
And this causes blade play? Or what's the issue?

Apologies for my ignorance.
I'm happiest with Micarta and Tool Steel.

Top three in the rotation: GCM + K390 Straight Spine Stretch, NCM + ZWear Shaman, 204P Millie.

Sumdumguy
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Re: Grail Achieved, Slight Issue.

Postby Sumdumguy » Wed Mar 11, 2020 6:28 pm

kennethsime wrote:
Wed Mar 11, 2020 5:04 pm
Sumdumguy wrote:
Wed Mar 11, 2020 4:29 pm
kennethsime wrote:
Wed Mar 11, 2020 4:23 pm
For the ignorant among us, what is "late lockup" ? Is there a small gap between the blade and the lock bar, on the right-hand side?
The lockbar extends all the way across the lockface, touching(or very near it) the opposite scale.
And this causes blade play? Or what's the issue?

Apologies for my ignorance.
Just a guess from my part, but I would say excessive wear on the lockface is causing the lockbar to engage further than it should. That change in geometry is causing the blade play. Probably could be negated with a metal insert on the lock interface.

Again, just a guess.

I'm going to give Spyderco a call tomorrow, just in case there is someone who can work some magic. I really don't want to have to go back to my search... It's taken so long!

I'll hope for a miracle and prepare for disappointment. Lol
"If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so."

-Thomas Jefferson

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kennethsime
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Re: Grail Achieved, Slight Issue.

Postby kennethsime » Wed Mar 11, 2020 7:48 pm

Sumdumguy wrote:
Wed Mar 11, 2020 6:28 pm
kennethsime wrote:
Wed Mar 11, 2020 5:04 pm
Sumdumguy wrote:
Wed Mar 11, 2020 4:29 pm
kennethsime wrote:
Wed Mar 11, 2020 4:23 pm
For the ignorant among us, what is "late lockup" ? Is there a small gap between the blade and the lock bar, on the right-hand side?
The lockbar extends all the way across the lockface, touching(or very near it) the opposite scale.
And this causes blade play? Or what's the issue?

Apologies for my ignorance.
Just a guess from my part, but I would say excessive wear on the lockface is causing the lockbar to engage further than it should. That change in geometry is causing the blade play. Probably could be negated with a metal insert on the lock interface.

Again, just a guess.

I'm going to give Spyderco a call tomorrow, just in case there is someone who can work some magic. I really don't want to have to go back to my search... It's taken so long!

I'll hope for a miracle and prepare for disappointment. Lol
Ok, that makes sense. Good luck! I hope you end up with something you're happy with.
I'm happiest with Micarta and Tool Steel.

Top three in the rotation: GCM + K390 Straight Spine Stretch, NCM + ZWear Shaman, 204P Millie.

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sal
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Re: Grail Achieved, Slight Issue.

Postby sal » Wed Mar 11, 2020 8:20 pm

Hi Guy,

Sorry for your disappointment. The company that made the handles for us has long since gone out of business. I'll alert Charlynn to you call, but I'm not sure we can just fix it.

sal

Sumdumguy
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Re: Grail Achieved, Slight Issue.

Postby Sumdumguy » Wed Mar 11, 2020 11:01 pm

sal wrote:
Wed Mar 11, 2020 8:20 pm
Hi Guy,

Sorry for your disappointment. The company that made the handles for us has long since gone out of business. I'll alert Charlynn to you call, but I'm not sure we can just fix it.

sal
Thank you Sal. I appreciate the help, whatever the outcome. This is just one of the reasons I choose Spyderco above all else. Quality, in every facet of operation.

To your credit, this knife is pretty amazing. Had it not been for this one's particular issue, it would certainly be among my favorite users.
"If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so."

-Thomas Jefferson

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Evil D
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Re: Grail Achieved, Slight Issue.

Postby Evil D » Thu Mar 12, 2020 5:51 am

Sumdumguy wrote:
Wed Mar 11, 2020 4:14 pm
Evil D wrote:
Wed Mar 11, 2020 3:49 pm
Sorry you got scammed. I don't mean to pour salt into the wound but this is ultimately why I don't like this lock design.
Eh, if it's not repairable I'll get my money back. To be fair, even with the lockup and blade play, I doubt it is possible for the lock to fail or come unlocked.

As for the lock design, this is from the early days of this lock. I guarantee that technology and knowledge advances will allow for proper tolerances and material choices(steel interface).

Aside from being a grail, I was buying this to learn about the lock, to better implement it into a design I am working on. In light of this development, I won't be touching this particular knife.

It'll all turn out well, in the end.


Even with the lock totally bottomed out it's still functional, but at least with a standard CL with a steel liner I could swap out the liner and hopefully restore the lock back to new condition. Once the titanium is wore down I think your only option is to peen it, and that's not something I trust myself with doing. I hope Spyderco can get it sorted out for ya.
All SE all the time since 2017
~David

Sumdumguy
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Re: Grail Achieved, Slight Issue.

Postby Sumdumguy » Thu Mar 12, 2020 6:34 am

Evil D wrote:
Thu Mar 12, 2020 5:51 am
Sumdumguy wrote:
Wed Mar 11, 2020 4:14 pm
Evil D wrote:
Wed Mar 11, 2020 3:49 pm
Sorry you got scammed. I don't mean to pour salt into the wound but this is ultimately why I don't like this lock design.
Eh, if it's not repairable I'll get my money back. To be fair, even with the lockup and blade play, I doubt it is possible for the lock to fail or come unlocked.

As for the lock design, this is from the early days of this lock. I guarantee that technology and knowledge advances will allow for proper tolerances and material choices(steel interface).

Aside from being a grail, I was buying this to learn about the lock, to better implement it into a design I am working on. In light of this development, I won't be touching this particular knife.

It'll all turn out well, in the end.


Even with the lock totally bottomed out it's still functional, but at least with a standard CL with a steel liner I could swap out the liner and hopefully restore the lock back to new condition. Once the titanium is wore down I think your only option is to peen it, and that's not something I trust myself with doing. I hope Spyderco can get it sorted out for ya.
Peening it could work, but it wouldn't fix it in the long run.

I imagine that the "easiest" way to fix it, would be to take apart the knife, mill out a recess on the back of the lockbar, install a piece of stainless steel into the recess and then tune the new steel interface to the proper lockup. That should, in theory, fix the knife and prevent further wear on the titanium.

That's how I would go about it, if I were a custom knife maker. But alas, I am just a lowly enthusiast. Lol.
"If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so."

-Thomas Jefferson

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Evil D
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Re: Grail Achieved, Slight Issue.

Postby Evil D » Thu Mar 12, 2020 6:41 am

Sumdumguy wrote:
Thu Mar 12, 2020 6:34 am
Evil D wrote:
Thu Mar 12, 2020 5:51 am
Sumdumguy wrote:
Wed Mar 11, 2020 4:14 pm
Evil D wrote:
Wed Mar 11, 2020 3:49 pm
Sorry you got scammed. I don't mean to pour salt into the wound but this is ultimately why I don't like this lock design.
Eh, if it's not repairable I'll get my money back. To be fair, even with the lockup and blade play, I doubt it is possible for the lock to fail or come unlocked.

As for the lock design, this is from the early days of this lock. I guarantee that technology and knowledge advances will allow for proper tolerances and material choices(steel interface).

Aside from being a grail, I was buying this to learn about the lock, to better implement it into a design I am working on. In light of this development, I won't be touching this particular knife.

It'll all turn out well, in the end.


Even with the lock totally bottomed out it's still functional, but at least with a standard CL with a steel liner I could swap out the liner and hopefully restore the lock back to new condition. Once the titanium is wore down I think your only option is to peen it, and that's not something I trust myself with doing. I hope Spyderco can get it sorted out for ya.
Peening it could work, but it wouldn't fix it in the long run.

I imagine that the "easiest" way to fix it, would be to take apart the knife, mill out a recess on the back of the lockbar, install a piece of stainless steel into the recess and then tune the new steel interface to the proper lockup. That should, in theory, fix the knife and prevent further wear on the titanium.

That's how I would go about it, if I were a custom knife maker. But alas, I am just a lowly enthusiast. Lol.


If Spyderco can't fix it this may be worth looking into if the price isn't astronomical.
All SE all the time since 2017
~David

Sumdumguy
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Re: Grail Achieved, Slight Issue.

Postby Sumdumguy » Thu Mar 12, 2020 6:51 am

Evil D wrote:
Thu Mar 12, 2020 6:41 am
Sumdumguy wrote:
Thu Mar 12, 2020 6:34 am
Evil D wrote:
Thu Mar 12, 2020 5:51 am
Sumdumguy wrote:
Wed Mar 11, 2020 4:14 pm


Eh, if it's not repairable I'll get my money back. To be fair, even with the lockup and blade play, I doubt it is possible for the lock to fail or come unlocked.

As for the lock design, this is from the early days of this lock. I guarantee that technology and knowledge advances will allow for proper tolerances and material choices(steel interface).

Aside from being a grail, I was buying this to learn about the lock, to better implement it into a design I am working on. In light of this development, I won't be touching this particular knife.

It'll all turn out well, in the end.


Even with the lock totally bottomed out it's still functional, but at least with a standard CL with a steel liner I could swap out the liner and hopefully restore the lock back to new condition. Once the titanium is wore down I think your only option is to peen it, and that's not something I trust myself with doing. I hope Spyderco can get it sorted out for ya.
Peening it could work, but it wouldn't fix it in the long run.

I imagine that the "easiest" way to fix it, would be to take apart the knife, mill out a recess on the back of the lockbar, install a piece of stainless steel into the recess and then tune the new steel interface to the proper lockup. That should, in theory, fix the knife and prevent further wear on the titanium.

That's how I would go about it, if I were a custom knife maker. But alas, I am just a lowly enthusiast. Lol.


If Spyderco can't fix it this may be worth looking into if the price isn't astronomical.
Possibly.

It depends on what I work out with the seller, after I talk with Spyderco. The hardest part will be finding a skilled craftsman, who is willing to do it.
"If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so."

-Thomas Jefferson

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curlyhairedboy
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Re: Grail Achieved, Slight Issue.

Postby curlyhairedboy » Thu Mar 12, 2020 6:54 am

agreed, i know Razor Edge knives used to do lockbar inserts aftermarket, but I think he's more focused on his own knife line at this point.
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Sumdumguy
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Re: Grail Achieved, Slight Issue.

Postby Sumdumguy » Thu Mar 12, 2020 7:28 am

curlyhairedboy wrote:
Thu Mar 12, 2020 6:54 am
agreed, i know Razor Edge knives used to do lockbar inserts aftermarket, but I think he's more focused on his own knife line at this point.
Awesome to know, I was discussing a modification with him for a knife I was looking at already. Sent him a message, he's usually very quick to respond.

I'll report back later.
"If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so."

-Thomas Jefferson

Sumdumguy
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Re: Grail Achieved, Slight Issue.

Postby Sumdumguy » Thu Mar 12, 2020 8:06 am

No dice, Josh isn't interested right now. :(

Anyone else know of a good knife maker, who will do modifications?
"If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so."

-Thomas Jefferson


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