lockstick - my thoughts and your facts or theories
lockstick - my thoughts and your facts or theories
I own a few spydies that have it. The K2's is probably the worst - it's really hard to unlock with my thumb, so I usually do it by pulling the lockbar with my index finger instead.
The Ikuchi is affected as well. So far it's the only negative aspect I found, and I can bypass it easily by pushing the lockbar with my (cut short) fingernail.
Most spydies don't have it, or it's so little it's not noticeable. But some do. Some designs have inserts on the lockbar (e.g. the Advocate), probably to avoid lockstick by having a different material-on-material contact. So it seems that designers know that some materials have a higher risk for lockstick. In the Advocate they cared enough to design-in a third material to avoid it. But not in the K2 (which wasn't a cheap knife), or the Ikuchi. I know, those are all collaboration models. Do you think the designers didn't care?
The Ikuchi's blade is made of S30V, a widely used steel. I own two more S30V spydies, the Hanan and the Smock - they have no lockstick at all. Because of different materials used for the lockbar? Or a different coating or finish maybe? Why is lockstick not identified and eliminated by switching materials, or by not using materials that have a high risk for it from the start, for sure before release of any knife? It is annoying, and it seems it could be avoided if you look into it.
The Ikuchi is affected as well. So far it's the only negative aspect I found, and I can bypass it easily by pushing the lockbar with my (cut short) fingernail.
Most spydies don't have it, or it's so little it's not noticeable. But some do. Some designs have inserts on the lockbar (e.g. the Advocate), probably to avoid lockstick by having a different material-on-material contact. So it seems that designers know that some materials have a higher risk for lockstick. In the Advocate they cared enough to design-in a third material to avoid it. But not in the K2 (which wasn't a cheap knife), or the Ikuchi. I know, those are all collaboration models. Do you think the designers didn't care?
The Ikuchi's blade is made of S30V, a widely used steel. I own two more S30V spydies, the Hanan and the Smock - they have no lockstick at all. Because of different materials used for the lockbar? Or a different coating or finish maybe? Why is lockstick not identified and eliminated by switching materials, or by not using materials that have a high risk for it from the start, for sure before release of any knife? It is annoying, and it seems it could be avoided if you look into it.
Last edited by archangel on Fri Feb 28, 2020 4:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Michael
48 Spydies, 44 different models, 43 different steels
.
Grail knife, still to be acquired: original Tuff by Ed Schempp Feel free to help me find one at a reasonable price...
48 Spydies, 44 different models, 43 different steels
.
Grail knife, still to be acquired: original Tuff by Ed Schempp Feel free to help me find one at a reasonable price...
- curlyhairedboy
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Re: lockstick - my thoughts and your facts or theories
lockstick can occur for a bunch of reasons, but it's most commonly seen in titanium/steel interfaces. Titanium as a metal is notoriously bad at thermal conductivity, and it's a bear to machine. It likes to gall and rub off on other materials.
Lockbar inserts are an innovation to create a steel/steel interface and also avoid concerns about ti/steel interfaces causing excessive titanium wear.
Lockstick on compression locks is often caused by lubrication in the wrong place. ideally you shouldn't have any lube on the lockface. However, sometimes a little lube on the stop pin itself can relieve the sticking, especially on models vulnerable to it.
Lockbar inserts are an innovation to create a steel/steel interface and also avoid concerns about ti/steel interfaces causing excessive titanium wear.
Lockstick on compression locks is often caused by lubrication in the wrong place. ideally you shouldn't have any lube on the lockface. However, sometimes a little lube on the stop pin itself can relieve the sticking, especially on models vulnerable to it.
EDC Rotation: PITS, Damasteel Urban, Shaman, Ikuchi, Amalgam, CruCarta Shaman, Sage 5 LW, Serrated Caribbean Sheepsfoot CQI, XHP Shaman, M4/Micarta Shaman, 15v Shaman
Fixed Blades: Proficient, Magnacut Mule
Special and Sentimental: Southard, Squarehead LW, Ouroboros, Calendar Para 3 LW, 40th Anniversary Native, Ti Native, Calendar Watu, Tanto PM2
Would like to own again: CQI Caribbean Sheepsfoot PE, Watu
Wishlist: Magnacut, Shaman Sprints!
Fixed Blades: Proficient, Magnacut Mule
Special and Sentimental: Southard, Squarehead LW, Ouroboros, Calendar Para 3 LW, 40th Anniversary Native, Ti Native, Calendar Watu, Tanto PM2
Would like to own again: CQI Caribbean Sheepsfoot PE, Watu
Wishlist: Magnacut, Shaman Sprints!
- JacksonKnives
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Re: lockstick - my thoughts and your facts or theories
This is a bit like asking why road noise isn't eliminated in automobile cabs. The parameters are known, but not easy to predict for each car/knife sold, since the surface we're talking about is breaking in with use and will wear differently with different use.
My Ikuchi doesn't stick, your does. That's steel:steel.
My Sage 2 doesn't stick, your K2 does. That's titanium:steel.
Titanium is definitely more likely to stick, but it's not just about materials. Lockbar tension and surface finish are far more relevant. Tightening screws can also tweak alignment of the parts.
The usual recommendations for pencil lead or other lube are still your best bet.
If it's breaking in the wrong way and adjusting screw tension and lube don't help, there are more drastic measures that an expert could take, but it's tricky business that could do more harm than good in the wrong hands.
Re: lockstick - my thoughts and your facts or theories
The only knives that I recall off the top of my head that had it pretty bad were the Lil Sub Hilt and the Spydiechef.. both were pretty easily remedied by a short break-in period.
Rick H.
..well, that escalated quickly..
..well, that escalated quickly..
Re: lockstick - my thoughts and your facts or theories
Years ago I was at a knife shop fiddling with a ZT, it was assisted opening and it opened so hard and has so much lock stick it took me pressing with both thumbs to unlock it. For me, with only a couple exceptions, if it's a frame lock without a steel insert I'll pass. Otherwise I won't think I've ever had lock stick on other locks, maybe on a compression lock but I don't even remember which one so it couldn't have been a big deal.
All SE all the time since 2017
~David
~David
Re: lockstick - my thoughts and your facts or theories
I admit I haven't tried any of the possible remedies, so far I have lived with the lockstick. I'm gonna have to try the pencil lead trick on the K2. It's well beyond any breaking in period, has been flicked hundreds of times...
I'm still struggling to understand how steel on steel sometimes sticks and sometimes doesn't. Can it be a result of microscopic surface groves or something that either cant, resulting in stick, or don't?
Oh and by the way: my Slysz Bowie has a titanium frame, no insert on the lockbar, and next to no lockstick.
I'm still struggling to understand how steel on steel sometimes sticks and sometimes doesn't. Can it be a result of microscopic surface groves or something that either cant, resulting in stick, or don't?
Oh and by the way: my Slysz Bowie has a titanium frame, no insert on the lockbar, and next to no lockstick.
Michael
48 Spydies, 44 different models, 43 different steels
.
Grail knife, still to be acquired: original Tuff by Ed Schempp Feel free to help me find one at a reasonable price...
48 Spydies, 44 different models, 43 different steels
.
Grail knife, still to be acquired: original Tuff by Ed Schempp Feel free to help me find one at a reasonable price...
- JacksonKnives
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Re: lockstick - my thoughts and your facts or theories
There's the finish, but there's also the angle and the direction the pressure is being applied. Think about sliding down a sloped glass surface wearing leather-sole shoes. Just a little change of angle will totally change the amount of slip/friction.
Lockup is even influenced by assembly, in my experience, though I can't say I've ever fixed lock stick by disassembling and re-assembling a knife. (Though the same forces that act on centering should influence stick to some degree.)
-
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Re: lockstick - my thoughts and your facts or theories
I think the problem is galling. Asperities in the blade steel dig into the titanium lock face and cause the interface to stick on release. I have used powdered graphite with some success, but the best fix I have found is simply reducing the lock tension. All three of my modded / reground k2s have been done this way, and they don’t stick. Same with my spydiechef.
Re: lockstick - my thoughts and your facts or theories
Thanks guys. OK, I think I get it - there can be multiple root causes. Like I said, I do find it a bit annoying, but not that annoying so that I have to do something about it, except for maybe on my K2 where I will now try the pencil trick.
Three K2s, wow...
Three K2s, wow...
Last edited by archangel on Sat Feb 29, 2020 4:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
Michael
48 Spydies, 44 different models, 43 different steels
.
Grail knife, still to be acquired: original Tuff by Ed Schempp Feel free to help me find one at a reasonable price...
48 Spydies, 44 different models, 43 different steels
.
Grail knife, still to be acquired: original Tuff by Ed Schempp Feel free to help me find one at a reasonable price...
Re: lockstick - my thoughts and your facts or theories
Guys, you are all wrong.
Lockstick was created by evil finnish spirit Perkele ( sometimes called also Perkelesaatana). This spirit can come to your home at night and create a lockstick.
:D
Lockstick was created by evil finnish spirit Perkele ( sometimes called also Perkelesaatana). This spirit can come to your home at night and create a lockstick.
:D
In the pocket: Chaparral FRN, Native Chief, Police 4 K390, Pacific Salt SE, Manix 2 G10 REX45
Re: lockstick - my thoughts and your facts or theories
Pancake, that's neither thought nor fact nor theory - that's wrong dosage of medication!
Michael
48 Spydies, 44 different models, 43 different steels
.
Grail knife, still to be acquired: original Tuff by Ed Schempp Feel free to help me find one at a reasonable price...
48 Spydies, 44 different models, 43 different steels
.
Grail knife, still to be acquired: original Tuff by Ed Schempp Feel free to help me find one at a reasonable price...
-
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Re: lockstick - my thoughts and your facts or theories
I have a Para 3 CTS-XHP with lock stick. Flipped it hundreds of times, tried the sharpie marker trick and seemed to be better. Now back to where it started, audible loud click and rough on the finger pushing the compression lock.
My Caribbean, Shaman, and Lil Temperance are normal.
My Caribbean, Shaman, and Lil Temperance are normal.
-
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Re: lockstick - my thoughts and your facts or theories
Has anyone tried voiding there warranty by disassembling their knife and polishing the lockface? That seems like it would work. ( I’m joking ). If you do have lockstick can you send it to Spyderco?
:spyder: Shaman REX 45, Smock, Baby Jess Horn CE, Spydiechef, Schempp Bowie,Ti Fluted Military, Titanium Military, Native S30 V and G10, PM 2 in S35VN, and S110V, Manix 2 LW BD1 and SPY 27, Sage 5, Positron black CPM S30V, Chaparral w/Raffir Noble scales, SuperLeaf VG 10, Ladybug H1, Dragonfly 2 in ZDP 189 and Superblue/420J1 and H1, Delica in ZDP 189, Clipitool Standard, the Cook’s knife VG10, Santoku, paring and utility knives, all in MBS 26. :spyder:
- rabbitanarchy14
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Re: lockstick - my thoughts and your facts or theories
that is honestly what i did to my lil native and para 3 s30v first run. but i have modded many knives and have a firm grasp of what not to do.
192.168.0.1 -Para 3 G10 M390 Red, Dice XHP, Lil Native Rex 45 comp, Manix 2 M390 G10 BR, PM2 M390 DLC BL, PM2 k390 RGreen, Cat BD1N, Dragonfly 2 k390
Saving for - Lil Native K390, D'allara 3, UTX-70
Instruments- Kimber EVO, SA Hellcat, SW Shield Plus 9
Saving for - Lil Native K390, D'allara 3, UTX-70
Instruments- Kimber EVO, SA Hellcat, SW Shield Plus 9
Re: lockstick - my thoughts and your facts or theories
Years ago, I owned 9-10 CRK Sebenza knives,, 2 had lock stick. Applied the CRK grease and eliminated any stick.
CRK does harden the titanium lock face with heat which helps greatly.
Now have 100% Spyderco, only one PM2 early issue has slight stuck.
Regards,
FK
CRK does harden the titanium lock face with heat which helps greatly.
Now have 100% Spyderco, only one PM2 early issue has slight stuck.
Regards,
FK