What would you like to see next from Byrd?

Discuss Spyderco's byrd knives.
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sal
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Re: What would you like to see next from Byrd?

Postby sal » Fri Feb 07, 2020 6:14 pm

The question in my design philosophy would be the amount of purchase that you have to control the blade at a particular length. In some of my designs like the Lil' Temperance and the Caribbean designs, I do bring the handle to the edge without a kick ( like the basic Endura family ) or a a finger choil. But they are not lock-backs. I would have to modify the Starling design quite a bit to serve your request. It's possible. I have a new design coming out soon called the "Rock Jumper" that is a lock-back that brings the handle to the edge. I'll watch reaction to that new design.

Lock-backs have the strongest self close and some of our customers find that as a high value.

I'll watch for other comments.

sal

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Re: What would you like to see next from Byrd?

Postby pantagana23 » Fri Feb 07, 2020 8:05 pm

Wow, nice to see you have something like that in your plans. Hope it will be in the EDC range 3 +/- 1/2", cause that would be an instant buy for me, and I believe quite a few guys from both here and bladeforums, from the reactions I've seen.
Will be waiting for this one definitely.

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Re: What would you like to see next from Byrd?

Postby araneae » Sun Feb 09, 2020 7:28 pm

I'd actually love a starling 2 in FRN.

How about some Byrd Wharncliffes? Robin would be a good place to start.
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Just got:Rex 45 Para 3 LTWT, Harrier 2 LTWT

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Re: What would you like to see next from Byrd?

Postby ASmitty » Mon Mar 02, 2020 12:59 pm

araneae wrote:
Sun Feb 09, 2020 7:28 pm
How about some Byrd Wharncliffes? Robin would be a good place to start.
I'd be all over this!

I'd love to see the Meadowlark and Cara Cara CQI'd to make the handles a little more like the Harrier 2 lightweight's. I know FRN molds are expensive, but I think it'd be worth it.

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Re: What would you like to see next from Byrd?

Postby stanolszews » Sat Mar 21, 2020 7:27 pm

sal wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2020 9:05 am
Hi Stanolszews,

Welcome to our forum.

H1 steel is not available in China. I'll watch interest in a Finch with a clip. We're working with a couple of makers to see if hey can manage a Compression Lock.

Hi Conner,

Yes, imported steels.

Hi Born,

We're working on it. we'll see.

sal
Sal,

Thanks for the insight and thanks for taking the time to share. The Byrd line is a fantastic set of products and the Finch 2 is the best small knife that is available; I carry one every day and I have a backup in case I ever lose it.

I chose a Manix 2 LW over a Para 3 LW as my "big knife" with some birthday money a little while back; the Manix 2 LW is great, but the compression lock seems like it would be better for my smallish hands. It's probably next on my list, but I would love a Byrd with a compression lock instead!

Thanks for producing great products!

Stan

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Re: What would you like to see next from Byrd?

Postby vanis.slinkard » Mon Jun 22, 2020 5:30 am

I am a climbing arborist, I turned to spyderco for my emergency cutaway knifes. I would really like to see a knife with a carabiner hole in handle. I now buy Byrd because I lose about 3 knifes a year while working.

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sal
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Re: What would you like to see next from Byrd?

Postby sal » Mon Jun 22, 2020 10:54 am

Hi Vanis.Slinkard,

Welcome to our forum.

I guess I need more input? Is a carabiner hole different from a lanyard hole?

sal

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Re: What would you like to see next from Byrd?

Postby vanis.slinkard » Mon Jun 22, 2020 11:23 am

https://images.app.goo.gl/eDLqfpjFgYwSzQVK6 here is a pic of some knifes that have it, the problem with them is the blade, so rodent cut as fast or neat as spyderco/byrd.

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Re: What would you like to see next from Byrd?

Postby TomAiello » Mon Jun 22, 2020 12:10 pm

Hi Vanis, and welcome to the forum.

Have you tried the snap it? I have used it in a high angle environment and found it very convenient because of the built in carabiner. The carabiner built into it is pretty small, though, so it may not be large enough for your gear. I currently own four of them (two of the original Gin-1 version and two of the new H-1 version) and I can definitely recommend them.

I can't seem to find the serrated version on Spyderco's site right now, but it's at all the regular retailers.
https://www.spyderco.com/catalog/details/C26YL/975 (plain edge, probably not what you want)
https://cutleryshoppe.com/spyderco-c26s ... n-inserts/ (serrated)

Alternately, you could just girth hitch a cord through the lanyard hole and use that for a carabiner?



Sal, a carabiner hole is what you see on climbing specific knives like the Petzl Spatha, CRKT Niad or Trango Piraña. It's a much larger hole than a lanyard hole. It's intended to be large enough to easily clip a full sized climbing carabiner through (often with one hand).

Some examples:
https://www.crkt.com/niad.html
https://trango.com/products/piranha-knife
https://www.edelrid.de/en/sports/miscel ... esser.html
https://www.petzl.com/US/en/Sport/Packs ... ies/SPATHA

The problem is that the climbing specific knives are super low quality, so if you are actually using them to regularly cut things, they pretty much suck. They're more or less intended as very occasional use (or emergency) knives.

For what it's worth, I wholeheartedly endorse Vanis request for a Byrd climbing knife with a full size carabiner hole. I think that it would have to be a Byrd level product (8cr, made in China), because the market for a Spyderco level folder (and price point) for this would be miniscule. But if you made a $30-$40 Byrd with a fully serrated edge and a carabiner hole, I bet you'd capture the entire market segment. That's especially true if you could partner with a climbing gear company to market it. I've owned two Petzl Spathas and a Trango Piranha (I'm sure I still do, somewhere at the bottom of my gear locker), and from a knife standpoint they're basically garbage.

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sal
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Re: What would you like to see next from Byrd?

Postby sal » Mon Jun 22, 2020 9:33 pm

Thanx Vanis, Tom,

Thanx for the input. I'll think about is. Sizes?

sal

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Re: What would you like to see next from Byrd?

Postby TomAiello » Mon Jun 22, 2020 10:15 pm

I'd say a 3" blade is plenty for this application. I'm basically using the Snap It in this role, and that has plenty of cutting ability for the tasks. I think most of the climbing knives are in the 2-2.5" blade range, although some are advertised as longer. If you look at the Spatha, for example, I think it says it has a 4 inch blade, but there's really about 2 inches of useful serrations there, with another maybe 1 inch of really useless plain edge. Climbers usually value light weight, too, so smaller is generally better (to a point). I wonder if there is a way to use an existing mold? Maybe put the carabiner hole into an extended backspacer or something (like the wise man signet ring)?

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Re: What would you like to see next from Byrd?

Postby Ngati Pom » Tue Jun 23, 2020 2:35 am

Would the Meadowlark Rescue or Hawkbill Blade’s be fit for purpose?
With FRN scales and a G10 back spacer/ carabiner ring.
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Re: What would you like to see next from Byrd?

Postby vanis.slinkard » Tue Jun 23, 2020 5:34 am

Hawk bill would cut faster, and I think the length of that blade is in the sweet spot of compact and usefulness. You really want the beener hole in the pivot point of the blade, so the blade doesn't come open when your monkeying around in a canopy of a tree, or where ever working aloft. That why the girth hitch idea doesn't work.

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Re: What would you like to see next from Byrd?

Postby TomAiello » Tue Jun 23, 2020 9:39 am

The Tasman Salt actually has a great shape and size for these tasks. It's just too expensive for a knife that can potentially be dropped and lost a couple times a year. A Tasman Salt with a carabiner hole would probably be perfect, but that's going to be too much development cost for the limited market.

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Re: What would you like to see next from Byrd?

Postby vanis.slinkard » Tue Jun 23, 2020 10:11 am

Any one in op focus would be interested dropping a knife on a jump, in the ocean, or on a rescue drive is a bad day.

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sal
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Re: What would you like to see next from Byrd?

Postby sal » Tue Jun 23, 2020 1:18 pm

Hi Vanis,

Yes, The larger hole would have to be at the pivot end. Modern knives open esily and if secured at the rear of the knife, a sever drop and stop can open many blades. We did extensive testing on this concept.

OK, for fun, let's design this knife. lengths, weights, important features, etc.

sal

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Re: What would you like to see next from Byrd?

Postby TomAiello » Tue Jun 23, 2020 2:07 pm

I'm picturing a Tasman Salt with a slightly modified handle and a carabiner hole through the pivot.

3" Hawkbill Serrated Blade, modeled after the Tasman Salt.

FRN/FRCP handle for light weight. Something like the chamfered looking edges on the Rock Jumper for more comfortable grip.

No finger choil. Knife will be used mostly for fast cuts, and more blade/handle ratio is more important than enhancing fine tip control.

Carabiner hole through the pivot. Can that be done well? I have knives like that but the action isn't very nice on them. The handle may have be pretty wide to accommodate that.

In a perfect world, blade material would be H-1 for zero maintenance. In the real world, it'll probably have to be 8cr made in China, and done as a Byrd. Although Vanis has a point that there might be a market in the government contract world, in which case making it in Golden to meet government procurement criteria might work. Cost for civilian users will be pretty high, though.


I don't think there is a market for it as a jump knife. The only potential use would be old fashioned airborne static line mass deployments (like the Jumpmaster), and the US has moved away from those (for a lot of good reasons). Modern military parachuting is done on freefall rigs using 300+ square foot low aspect ratio 7 cells, and the chance of needing a hook knife at opening is basically zero . The procedure taught in MFF is just to cut away tension knots and line overs anyway, which means a hook knife is only going to be useful in the 1 in a million chance of a reserve malfunction, and that's not covered in MFF at all.

Is there a government market in water applications? Doesn't the Autonomy pretty much have that market niche wrapped up? Most of the NSW guys I know have the Pac Salt at work, though. Would they use this instead? I'm totally out of my area of expertise, but I'm not sure if a carabiner attachment is even used in those kind of environments.

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Re: What would you like to see next from Byrd?

Postby vanis.slinkard » Tue Jun 23, 2020 2:19 pm

In the arborist/rope access work force the average price of gear is about $200 so we would be willing to spend the money, if we only have to do it once.

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Re: What would you like to see next from Byrd?

Postby TomAiello » Tue Jun 23, 2020 6:35 pm

Random thought. Vanis, have you considered using a fixed blade like the Swick 5 or 6 serrated versions?

https://www.spyderco.com/catalog/details/FB146/1895
https://www.spyderco.com/catalog/details/FB145/1894

The hole on the Swick is large enough for a carabiner.

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sal
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Re: What would you like to see next from Byrd?

Postby sal » Tue Jun 23, 2020 7:42 pm

Hi,

I question the hawk-bill blade shape. It does have limitations.,. I would lean more too warncliffe.

Thoughts?

sal


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