Military with Compression Lock?

[Sumdumguy]

Compression > Liner

Even on the Military, a Comp will make it better(for most). The only argument for a Linerlock is better usability with gloves on, which is completely false. I can easily operate both of them with heavy snow gloves on. Maybe if you had to wear giant snow mitts, but even then, I would just use my thumb and close it like a backlock. Bottom line, the Compression lock is far more versatile and an overall better design for most all applications where a Linerlock is used.

I'm not saying get rid of the old Military, just add a Military 2 to the lineup. I know I'd buy one, unlike the current model(except the Framelock)

[Wartstein]

Compression > Liner

Even on the Military, a Comp will make it better(for most). The only argument for a Linerlock is better usability with gloves on, which is completely false. I can easily operate both of them with heavy snow gloves on. Maybe if you had to wear giant snow mitts, but even then, I would just use my thumb and close it like a backlock. Bottom line, the Compression lock is far more versatile and an overall better design for most all applications where a Linerlock is used.

I'm not saying get rid of the old Military, just add a Military 2 to the lineup. I know I'd buy one, unlike the current model(except the Framelock)

For YOU... And that's fine.

For me, though I like the comp.lock, it does nothing that a good linerlock does not do better (and as far as I'm aware of not too few who really use folders in cold, wet, harsh outdoor conditions feel similar).

Operating a linerlock is more natural and secure for me. No finger has to be moved to the top of the handle, the knife remains in a very natural and secure grip in the hand when releasing the lockbar with the index finger, and the thumb is already perfectly placed to guide the blade to closed.
And in most cases the lockbar of a linerlock is better accesible and better to operate with numb, wet or in glove fingers than the locktab of a comp.lock.

So: For me the comp.lock is not better, more evolved or an upgrade over a good liner lock, but just an alternative.

[Doc Dan]

Just my $AU0.02c worth, is all. :)

That's USD 0.01 cents. hahahaha! :D

[Bloke]

Just my $AU0.02c worth, is all. :)

That's USD 0.01 cents. hahahaha! :D

That’s awesome, Doc! :)

I knew it was only a matter of time before our dollar bounced back. :cool:

[Gamecock]

Compression > Liner

Even on the Military, a Comp will make it better(for most). The only argument for a Linerlock is better usability with gloves on, which is completely false. I can easily operate both of them with heavy snow gloves on. Maybe if you had to wear giant snow mitts, but even then, I would just use my thumb and close it like a backlock. Bottom line, the Compression lock is far more versatile and an overall better design for most all applications where a Linerlock is used.

I'm not saying get rid of the old Military, just add a Military 2 to the lineup. I know I'd buy one, unlike the current model(except the Framelock)

I agree with that...I would buy a new Comp lock military, but have no interest in the current version. My guess is that sales of comparable models today in Spyderco’s lineup go very heavily in the direction of Comp Lock over liner lock. I think the vast majority today prefer it.

[anycal]

...

And I reckon it’s exactly the same for the tip up down nonsense. How many non knife people are likely to shun a knife because of tip orientation? :rolleyes:

... the same for the extra holes nonsense. How many non knife people are likely to shun a knife because of the extra pocket clip holes? :p

Yes, the non-knife person is obviously a huge part of the calculation Spyderco makes during evaluation of a new release. But I don't know what those people say. I do read what knife people say. And we do want carry options. I personally do not like carrying military in my front pocket as tip down, blade exposed. I accepted that the current model will occupy the rear pocket most of the time.

I am OK with what Spyderco decides. And I will make my purchasing decisions accordingly.

[Mushroom]

Compression > Liner

Even on the Military, a Comp will make it better(for most). The only argument for a Linerlock is better usability with gloves on, which is completely false. I can easily operate both of them with heavy snow gloves on. Maybe if you had to wear giant snow mitts, but even then, I would just use my thumb and close it like a backlock. Bottom line, the Compression lock is far more versatile and an overall better design for most all applications where a Linerlock is used.

I'm not saying get rid of the old Military, just add a Military 2 to the lineup. I know I'd buy one, unlike the current model(except the Framelock)

For YOU... And that's fine.

For me, though I like the comp.lock, it does nothing that a good linerlock does not do better (and as far as I'm aware of not too few who really use folders in cold, wet, harsh outdoor conditions feel similar).

Operating a linerlock is more natural and secure for me. No finger has to be moved to the top of the handle, the knife remains in a very natural and secure grip in the hand when releasing the lockbar with the index finger, and the thumb is already perfectly placed to guide the blade to closed.
And in most cases the lockbar of a linerlock is better accesible and better to operate with numb, wet or in glove fingers than the locktab of a comp.lock.

So: For me the comp.lock is not better, more evolved or an upgrade over a good liner lock, but just an alternative.

You've made it abundantly clear that you prefer the liner lock over the compression lock, and thats fine.

Objectively though, a compression lock is an improvement to the liner lock. It's more than just a liner lock on the back of the knife. Functionally, it does more than a liner lock to keep a knife closed.

[Wartstein]

Compression > Liner

Even on the Military, a Comp will make it better(for most). The only argument for a Linerlock is better usability with gloves on, which is completely false. I can easily operate both of them with heavy snow gloves on. Maybe if you had to wear giant snow mitts, but even then, I would just use my thumb and close it like a backlock. Bottom line, the Compression lock is far more versatile and an overall better design for most all applications where a Linerlock is used.

I'm not saying get rid of the old Military, just add a Military 2 to the lineup. I know I'd buy one, unlike the current model(except the Framelock)

For YOU... And that's fine.

For me, though I like the comp.lock, it does nothing that a good linerlock does not do better (and as far as I'm aware of not too few who really use folders in cold, wet, harsh outdoor conditions feel similar).

Operating a linerlock is more natural and secure for me. No finger has to be moved to the top of the handle, the knife remains in a very natural and secure grip in the hand when releasing the lockbar with the index finger, and the thumb is already perfectly placed to guide the blade to closed.
And in most cases the lockbar of a linerlock is better accesible and better to operate with numb, wet or in glove fingers than the locktab of a comp.lock.

So: For me the comp.lock is not better, more evolved or an upgrade over a good liner lock, but just an alternative.

You've made it abundantly clear that you prefer the liner lock over the compression lock, and thats fine.

Objectively though, a compression lock is an improvement to the liner lock. It's more than just a liner lock on the back of the knife. Functionally, it does more than a liner lock to keep a knife closed.

Exactly. I made, as I try always, clear that I personally prefer the linerlock.

I'd never state generally "Lock A > Lock B" (period) cause one just can't do that categorely, and that's what I pointed out.

Right, functionally/technically a comp.lock clearly does "more" to keep a knife closed than a linerlock, it is just stronger,.

But does that make it "objectivly an improvement"?
Imho, no, or just in the categiory "maximum strength" in theory (cause practically both comp. and linerlock are more than strong enough imho).

The stronger design of the comp.lock comes with clear disadvantages ("disimprovements") in other areas, and if one -like me- happens to value that areas more than a lock that is even stronger than another lock that still is strong enough anyway,, this even-stronger-lock is just an alternative rather than an improvement overall..

[Mushroom]

You're right that it's hard to call something an improvement if its completely different. I understand what you're saying about them being alternatives so neither should be seen as an improvement to the other as there will always be advantages to some that are disadvantages to others. Personal preference is just part of life.

What I'm saying, is that by improving the strength of the lock, you are improving the lock itself. When you deduce it down to keeping the knife open, the main function of the lock, by improving its ability to keep the knife open you are improving the concept of the lock.

Also, the fact that the compression lock is still the actual liner, in itself, makes it an improved liner lock. It just has a different name.
In theory, I think the compression lock could "operate" exactly the same as a liner lock, but putting the tab on the top of the knife removes the need to put your fingers in the path of the closing blade.

I'm not trying to convince you to switch you preference to the compression lock, just trying to better explain myself. :spyder:

[Wartstein]

You're right that it's hard to call something an improvement if its completely different. I understand what you're saying about them being alternatives so neither should be seen as an improvement to the other as there will always be advantages to some that are disadvantages to others. Personal preference is just part of life.

What I'm saying, is that by improving the strength of the lock, you are improving the lock itself. When you deduce it down to keeping the knife open, the main function of the lock, by improving its ability to keep the knife open you are improving the concept of the lock.

Also, the fact that the compression lock is still the actual liner, in itself, makes it an improved liner lock. It just has a different name.
In theory, I think the compression lock could "operate" exactly the same as a liner lock, but putting the tab on the top of the knife removes the need to put your fingers in the path of the closing blade.

I'm not trying to convince you to switch you preference to the compression lock, just trying to better explain myself. :spyder:

Thanks for your reply!

Well, thinking about it, technically your are right indeeed.

When creating the comp.lock Spyderco basically took a linerlock and made it "better" / stronger, so technically improved the basic function of the lock - technically, that can´t be argued!

But not necessarely and for everbody in practical use, and not in a way that one could based on that generally state "compression>liner"
But I think we´ve already agreed on that anyway...

It´s a bit like if you had a car that weighs 2000 pounds, and that car had a brake that would perfectly stop cars up to a weight of 3000 pounds.
Then someone would improve that brake so that it now can perfectly stop cars up to a weight of 6000 pounds, BUT on THAT brake the pedal is located in a new place that you personally happened to like less than the original placement of the pedal...

So since you still would not NEED an even stronger brake on your particular car, and the new break would be less natural to operate for you, it would not be an actual improvement for you personally...

Not a perfect example, I know, since the comp.lock certainly has MORE differences (and possible advantages / disadvantages) compared to the linerlock than just being stronger (brake-analogy: Able to stop even heavier cars)... but you get what I mean...

[James Y]

It’s not as if the Military would be among the first choices of a Spyderco that a non-knife person would be likely to buy. And changing the lock on it wouldn’t necessarily change that.

Jim

I think you’re spot on, Jim. :)

And I reckon it’s exactly the same for the tip up down nonsense. How many non knife people are likely to shun a knife because of tip orientation? :rolleyes:

Bloke, I know a lot of people (non-knife enthusiasts) who don’t even understand how a liner lock works, much less able to figure out how to close it. Even when you show them, they’re like, “Oh!” Someone once looked at my Para 3 and really couldn’t figure out what was locking the blade open; a compression lock takes a bit more to figure out than a liner lock. A non-knife aficionado would not become interested in a Military, due to many, many factors, including size and price, much less a compression lock Military.

Jim

[5-by-5]

The compression lock is the worst lock in the Spyderco line up. I really wish Spyderco would stop ruining great models with Complocks.

Forum fanatics is the squeaky wheel. Not a true representation of the knife buying market.

[Pancake]

The compression lock is the worst lock in the Spyderco line up. I really wish Spyderco would stop ruining great models with Complocks.

Can you tell more about your opinion on comp lock?

[Bloke]

...

And I reckon it’s exactly the same for the tip up down nonsense. How many non knife people are likely to shun a knife because of tip orientation? :rolleyes:

... the same for the extra holes nonsense. How many non knife people are likely to shun a knife because of the extra pocket clip holes? :p

Hey any, I reckon it's all nonsense mate! Perpetrated by a mob of freaks obsessed with knives and too much time on our hands.

You'd have to wonder what normal people would think reading page after page on the merits of choils, the exceptional ergonomics of yet another slab sided folder, forty seven different ways of opening and closing back locks, how distressed we are to have missed out on the blah, blah exclusive which is exactly the same as the sixteen others we have but with different colour handle/scales.

Anyhow, it's great hanging out with like minded knuts but plucked if I take any of it seriously. I've posted this before ... Like most here I have more flash, you beauty knives than I can poke a stick at but for many months now I've been get around with a SE, HB Ladybug that looks like something I picked up for $1.80 out of the Luck Dip bin at the counter of the local hardware store. Ah, hahaha, ah, hahaha, ah, hahaha! :D :confused:

[MichaelScott]

Spyderco makes good knives, no doubt. As a company they do a lot for the community, charities, military and first responders but their knives are not the end-all and be-all of knives. I enjoy a few of the threads here but Bloke is right, too much idol worship, too many times getting flamed for an opinion that runs against the current, too many arguments over tip up, tip down, deep carry, shallow carry, jumping, etc.

My usual carry now is some multi-bladed traditional sporting 1095 carbon steel blades and bone, acrylic or micarta covers.

[Sumdumguy]

Compression > Liner

Even on the Military, a Comp will make it better(for most). The only argument for a Linerlock is better usability with gloves on, which is completely false. I can easily operate both of them with heavy snow gloves on. Maybe if you had to wear giant snow mitts, but even then, I would just use my thumb and close it like a backlock. Bottom line, the Compression lock is far more versatile and an overall better design for most all applications where a Linerlock is used.

I'm not saying get rid of the old Military, just add a Military 2 to the lineup. I know I'd buy one, unlike the current model(except the Framelock)

For YOU... And that's fine.

For me, though I like the comp.lock, it does nothing that a good linerlock does not do better (and as far as I'm aware of not too few who really use folders in cold, wet, harsh outdoor conditions feel similar).

Operating a linerlock is more natural and secure for me. No finger has to be moved to the top of the handle, the knife remains in a very natural and secure grip in the hand when releasing the lockbar with the index finger, and the thumb is already perfectly placed to guide the blade to closed.
And in most cases the lockbar of a linerlock is better accesible and better to operate with numb, wet or in glove fingers than the locktab of a comp.lock.

So: For me the comp.lock is not better, more evolved or an upgrade over a good liner lock, but just an alternative.

While you may prefer the liner lock, facts are facts. The Compression lock is an improvement on the liner lock, it is far more versatile, safer and stronger. That doesn't make the liner lock bad, just less good. Cars used to not have cupholders, then they added them and it made the cars better.

Also, the regurgitated rhetoric about it being difficult to unlock with gloves is just not accurate. Maybe some models are difficult due to the cutout(Kapara), but my Caribbean has never given me a problem while wearing gloves.
I just got back from a day on the slopes and can say for a fact that ski gloves don't affect the operation of it.

As an aside, I was replacing my plumbing today and had to cut some plastic under my house. I had my beloved Mantra with me. While I was fumbling around in the dark closing it, I couldn't help but long for the simple flick of my Caribbean. I love my Mantra with all of my heart, but it still pales in comparison to the Caribbean and it's Compression lock. Blindly push the lock tab, give it a tiny flick and it's closed. Zero thought required.

[Doc Dan]

https://youtu.be/xqAjzmYVsLo

Here is a Blade HQ video testing knife locks with gloves on their hands.

[Wartstein]

Compression > Liner

For YOU... And that's fine.

For me, though I like the comp.lock, it does nothing that a good linerlock does not do better (and as far as I'm aware of not too few who really use folders in cold, wet, harsh outdoor conditions feel similar).

Operating a linerlock is more natural and secure for me. No finger has to be moved to the top of the handle, the knife remains in a very natural and secure grip in the hand when releasing the lockbar with the index finger, and the thumb is already perfectly placed to guide the blade to closed.
And in most cases the lockbar of a linerlock is better accesible and better to operate with numb, wet or in glove fingers than the locktab of a comp.lock.

So: For me the comp.lock is not better, more evolved or an upgrade over a good liner lock, but just an alternative.

While you may prefer the liner lock, facts are facts. The Compression lock is an improvement on the liner lock, it is far more versatile, safer and stronger. That doesn't make the liner lock bad, just less good. Cars used to not have cupholders, then they added them and it made the cars better.

Also, the regurgitated rhetoric about it being difficult to unlock with gloves is just not accurate. Maybe some models are difficult due to the cutout(Kapara), but my Caribbean has never given me a problem while wearing gloves.
I just got back from a day on the slopes and can say for a fact that ski gloves don't affect the operation of it.

As an aside, I was replacing my plumbing today and had to cut some plastic under my house. I had my beloved Mantra with me. While I was fumbling around in the dark closing it, I couldn't help but long for the simple flick of my Caribbean. I love my Mantra with all of my heart, but it still pales in comparison to the Caribbean and it's Compression lock. Blindly push the lock tab, give it a tiny flick and it's closed. Zero thought required.

I respect your opinion, but still it strikes me a bit funny that you can generally and as if this had to be true for everyone else state as a "fact" that the comp. lock would be an improvement over the linerlock... it certainly is in certain areas, that you personally choose to be important for you, and that´s fine!

But not so for me and obviously also not for some others (see also my quoted post above)

Yes, the comp.lock is stronger for sure and in that you can say technically improved, but the Millie-liner-lock still is more than strong enough, so no improvement there (or just technically) for me. When I go climbing, I want the rope with the best handling, and don´t care if it is rated up to 6000 or 8000 pounds,for both are more than strong enough (though the higher rated may be technically improved).

The comp.lock is more versatile in that you can figure out more ways of closing it, but the existing linerlock methods for me are safer (especially, but not only, concerning risk of dropping the knife) and a lot more natural and convinient than the possible comp.lock methods. For me the "fingers never in the blade path" thing is really not important at all (especially on a knife with a choil) and imho should not be for any experienced knife user (but that´s subjective of course)

I don´t say that a comp.lock would be really hard to operate with gloves, I just say that in an area that´s important for me personally the linerlock is even better and the comp.lock certainly not an improvement: The Millie linerlock for me is even easier and safer to operate with really cold, wet or "in heavy gloves" fingers (and, again, I am not the only one who feels like that). Just my practical experience, a fact for me.

If I´d argue like you do, I would have to say (but I DON`T, but just that the following is true for me personally): It is a FACT that the BACKlock (so BACKlock, not LINERlock) is the most improved, safest and most versatile lock. Because people who really use their knives frequently, will eventually figure out, that the backlock has the most safe (concerning fingers AND risk of dropping) closing methods and can do absolutely everything a comp.lock can (even the weird "fingers never in the blade path" thing) and more - but again, if one puts the focus on other areas than I do (for example how easy and fast one can LEARN to operate a lock) the backlock for this person is NOT the "most improved"...

[5-by-5]

:spyder:

Compression > Liner

For YOU... And that's fine.

For me, though I like the comp.lock, it does nothing that a good linerlock does not do better (and as far as I'm aware of not too few who really use folders in cold, wet, harsh outdoor conditions feel similar).

Operating a linerlock is more natural and secure for me. No finger has to be moved to the top of the handle, the knife remains in a very natural and secure grip in the hand when releasing the lockbar with the index finger, and the thumb is already perfectly placed to guide the blade to closed.
And in most cases the lockbar of a linerlock is better accesible and better to operate with numb, wet or in glove fingers than the locktab of a comp.lock.

So: For me the comp.lock is not better, more evolved or an upgrade over a good liner lock, but just an alternative.

While you may prefer the liner lock, facts are facts. The Compression lock is an improvement on the liner lock, it is far more versatile, safer and stronger. That doesn't make the liner lock bad, just less good. Cars used to not have cupholders, then they added them and it made the cars better.

Also, the regurgitated rhetoric about it being difficult to unlock with gloves is just not accurate. Maybe some models are difficult due to the cutout(Kapara), but my Caribbean has never given me a problem while wearing gloves.
I just got back from a day on the slopes and can say for a fact that ski gloves don't affect the operation of it.

As an aside, I was replacing my plumbing today and had to cut some plastic under my house. I had my beloved Mantra with me. While I was fumbling around in the dark closing it, I couldn't help but long for the simple flick of my Caribbean. I love my Mantra with all of my heart, but it still pales in comparison to the Caribbean and it's Compression lock. Blindly push the lock tab, give it a tiny flick and it's closed. Zero thought required.

I respect your opinion, but still it strikes me a bit funny that you can generally and as if this had to be true for everyone else state as a "fact" that the comp. lock would be an improvement over the linerlock... it certainly is in certain areas, that you personally choose to be important for you, and that´s fine!

But not so for me and obviously also not for some others (see also my quoted post above)

Yes, the comp.lock is stronger for sure and in that you can say technically improved, but the Millie-liner-lock still is more than strong enough, so no improvement there (or just technically) for me. When I go climbing, I want the rope with the best handling, and don´t care if it is rated up to 6000 or 8000 pounds,for both are more than strong enough (though the higher rated may be technically improved).

The comp.lock is more versatile in that you can figure out more ways of closing it, but the existing linerlock methods for me are safer (especially, but not only, concerning risk of dropping the knife) and a lot more natural and convinient than the possible comp.lock methods. For me the "fingers never in the blade path" thing is really not important at all (especially on a knife with a choil) and imho should not be for any experienced knife user (but that´s subjective of course)

I don´t say that a comp.lock would be really hard to operate with gloves, I just say that in an area that´s important for me personally the linerlock is even better and the comp.lock certainly not an improvement: The Millie linerlock for me is even easier and safer to operate with really cold, wet or "in heavy gloves" fingers (and, again, I am not the only one who feels like that). Just my practical experience, a fact for me.

If I´d argue like you do, I would have to say (but I DON`T, but just that the following is true for me personally): It is a FACT that the BACKlock (so BACKlock, not LINERlock) is the most improved, safest and most versatile lock. Because people who really use their knives frequently, will eventually figure out, that the backlock has the most safe (concerning fingers AND risk of dropping) closing methods and can do absolutely everything a comp.lock can (even the weird "fingers never in the blade path" thing) and more - but again, if one puts the focus on other areas than I do (for example how easy and fast one can LEARN to operate a lock) the backlock for this person is NOT the "most improved"...

Agreed 100%!

[Evil D]

https://youtu.be/xqAjzmYVsLo

Here is a Blade HQ video testing knife locks with gloves on their hands.

I'm sure everyone is different. My fingers are big enough that on some compression locks I struggle getting enough of my finger into the lock cutout to press the tab even without gloves on. With the Military the cutout is so big I have plenty of room.