Design details that are deal breakers
- standy99
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- Joined: Sat Jul 22, 2017 11:07 am
- Location: Between Broome and Cairns somewhere
Re: Design details that are deal breakers
Flippers..I don’t like them, don’t need them, would never need to flip a knife open.
Just a thing because I’m more old and grumpy nowadays I suppose :D
Just a thing because I’m more old and grumpy nowadays I suppose :D
Im a vegetarian as technically cows are made of grass and water.
Re: Design details that are deal breakers
The giant right angle of exposed steel on the Shaman while it's closed. I can't stand that!
"If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so."
-Thomas Jefferson
-Thomas Jefferson
Re: Design details that are deal breakers
Excessive jimping on the Manix handle........but that's been beat to death before.
Re: Design details that are deal breakers
I must be the black sheep here. I absolutely LOVE a 50/50 choil. I love how it really helps ME lock in my grip and being choked up also helps with being precise with my cuts. A lot of times I just naturally utilize the choil and also place my thumb on the spine close to the tip of the knife for even better control. The 50/50 choil design makes that more comfortable and locked in grip than any other design imo. Yea it takes away from a bit of edge length, but as long as your paying attention to how you are cutting the edge length in a lot of cases shouldn't be an issue (obviously depending what or how you are cutting of course, I'm saying primarily for my use here) All my knives that I find most comfortable to use and fit my hand best, happen to be models with a 50/50 choil.
I agree with David about when NOT utilizing the choil on knives that have them, the grip feels a bit awkward and very distant. I've tried using my Shaman's/Manix's without using the choil and it feels very awkward and not very controlled.
I agree with David about when NOT utilizing the choil on knives that have them, the grip feels a bit awkward and very distant. I've tried using my Shaman's/Manix's without using the choil and it feels very awkward and not very controlled.
15 's in 10 different steels
1 - Bradford Guardian 3 / Vanadis 4E Wharnie
1 - Monterey Bay Knives Slayback Flipper / ZDP 189
1 - CRK Small Sebenza 31/Macassar Ebony Inlays
1 - CRK Large Inkosi Insingo/ Black Micarta Inlays
1 - CRK Small Sebenza 31 Insingo/Magnacut
-Rick
1 - Bradford Guardian 3 / Vanadis 4E Wharnie
1 - Monterey Bay Knives Slayback Flipper / ZDP 189
1 - CRK Small Sebenza 31/Macassar Ebony Inlays
1 - CRK Large Inkosi Insingo/ Black Micarta Inlays
1 - CRK Small Sebenza 31 Insingo/Magnacut
-Rick
Re: Design details that are deal breakers
TkoK83Spy wrote: ↑Wed Jan 08, 2020 7:47 amI must be the black sheep here. I absolutely LOVE a 50/50 choil. I love how it really helps ME lock in my grip and being choked up also helps with being precise with my cuts. A lot of times I just naturally utilize the choil and also place my thumb on the spine close to the tip of the knife for even better control. The 50/50 choil design makes that more comfortable and locked in grip than any other design imo. Yea it takes away from a bit of edge length, but as long as your paying attention to how you are cutting the edge length in a lot of cases shouldn't be an issue (obviously depending what or how you are cutting of course, I'm saying primarily for my use here) All my knives that I find most comfortable to use and fit my hand best, happen to be models with a 50/50 choil.
I agree with David about when NOT utilizing the choil on knives that have them, the grip feels a bit awkward and very distant. I've tried using my Shaman's/Manix's without using the choil and it feels very awkward and not very controlled.
What I'm trying to say is less that I don't like the choil, and more that I'd prefer the grip were more like a Lil Temp 3 where there's no need for it in the first place.
All SE all the time since 2017
~David
~David
Re: Design details that are deal breakers
TkoK83Spy wrote: ↑Wed Jan 08, 2020 7:47 amI must be the black sheep here. I absolutely LOVE a 50/50 choil. I love how it really helps ME lock in my grip and being choked up also helps with being precise with my cuts. A lot of times I just naturally utilize the choil and also place my thumb on the spine close to the tip of the knife for even better control. The 50/50 choil design makes that more comfortable and locked in grip than any other design imo. Yea it takes away from a bit of edge length, but as long as your paying attention to how you are cutting the edge length in a lot of cases shouldn't be an issue (obviously depending what or how you are cutting of course, I'm saying primarily for my use here) All my knives that I find most comfortable to use and fit my hand best, happen to be models with a 50/50 choil.
Actually in my personal experience a finger choil works best in real use, when it is not TOO deep... though deep choils feel better when just holding the knife, when really using it the control over it is better when a choil is a bit shallower and by that the index finger not TOO deeply recessed compared to the other fingers.
So just in my use for example the shallower choil of the Stretch 1 gives me more control than the deeper choil of the Stretch 2, or the Ricasso of the Endura (when choking up on it) more than the deep Native choil...
Top three going by pocket-time (update March 24):
- EDC: Endura thin red line ffg combo edge (VG10); Wayne Goddard PE (4V), Endela SE (VG10)
-Mountains/outdoors: Pac.Salt 1 SE (H1), Salt 2 SE (LC200N), and also Wayne Goddard PE (4V)
- EDC: Endura thin red line ffg combo edge (VG10); Wayne Goddard PE (4V), Endela SE (VG10)
-Mountains/outdoors: Pac.Salt 1 SE (H1), Salt 2 SE (LC200N), and also Wayne Goddard PE (4V)
Re: Design details that are deal breakers
My absolute deal breaker: Nonstainless steel blades. I do a lot of food prep with my pocket knives and they need to have corrosion resistance.
Make time for the important things in life, and learn to enjoy the little things more.
Re: Design details that are deal breakers
I'm generally not real picky but there's a few that I've seen mentioned that I tend to shy away from.
-Recurves - I do have one. I bought a Hanan on sale because I like the Southard designs. Haven't really carried it much because I still need to increase the detent. It looks like I'll be able to touch it up on the Sharpmaker and use my 1/2" wide stones to reprofile when (if) it ever comes time. I'm not likely to buy another recurved blade though.
-Edge being too far from grip area
-Wave feature - I have no real need for this and I think it ruins the aesthetics of the knife
-Tanto Blades - It may be good for some things but not for me thanks.
-Recurves - I do have one. I bought a Hanan on sale because I like the Southard designs. Haven't really carried it much because I still need to increase the detent. It looks like I'll be able to touch it up on the Sharpmaker and use my 1/2" wide stones to reprofile when (if) it ever comes time. I'm not likely to buy another recurved blade though.
-Edge being too far from grip area
-Wave feature - I have no real need for this and I think it ruins the aesthetics of the knife
-Tanto Blades - It may be good for some things but not for me thanks.
Of all the things I've lost I miss my mind the most!
- Larry_Mott
- Member
- Posts: 2589
- Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2015 5:00 am
- Location: Helsingborg, Sweden
Re: Design details that are deal breakers
I can't really think of a dealbreaker detail/feature (or lack thereof) I don't love the Bradley's partly obscured hole.. The Techno's annoyng corner of the scales etc.
There are whole knives i wouldn't accept as a gift, but that is more aesthetics than feature based. :)
There are whole knives i wouldn't accept as a gift, but that is more aesthetics than feature based. :)
"Life is fragile - we should take better care of each other, and ourselves - every day!"
//Eva Mott 1941 - 2019. R.I.P.
//Eva Mott 1941 - 2019. R.I.P.
Re: Design details that are deal breakers
Dealbreakers:
Sharpening choil
End of the handle being pointy/sharp
Recurves and trailing points
Unique clips
Seki/Moki g10 costs
Point of blade proud of handle when closed
Sharpening choil
End of the handle being pointy/sharp
Recurves and trailing points
Unique clips
Seki/Moki g10 costs
Point of blade proud of handle when closed
Spydergirl88
3 Nats, 1 Chap, 1 Sham, 1 Urb
3 Nats, 1 Chap, 1 Sham, 1 Urb
Re: Design details that are deal breakers
I'm also one that's not a fan of grips that are far from start of the edge - it's weird using a police or military from the non choil grip
Hooks at the butt end of knives occasionally bother me. I want to love the pingo so badly, and I'll put up with it, but the hook forces my hand too far forward
I think the smock edge is cut out like that so the edge doesn't make its way to the compression lock cut out
Hooks at the butt end of knives occasionally bother me. I want to love the pingo so badly, and I'll put up with it, but the hook forces my hand too far forward
I think the smock edge is cut out like that so the edge doesn't make its way to the compression lock cut out
Re: Design details that are deal breakers
Idk that there are really any "dealbreakers" for me when it comes to Spyderco knives with regard to design language.. I have my preferences yes, but generally, I'm willing to give any Spyderco a chance because when I handle them I can see and appreciate that each design feature was thoughtfully and intentionally executed.. I can't say this about some other knife companies' products..
Deal-breakers for me are almost always aesthetic.. I like simple.. any type of unnecessary, excessive or decorative patterning/milling/embellishment is a no-go for me. Crazy colors.. probably not for me. Those awful rainbow-pattern aftermarket pocket clips.. for the love of God, why?! Knives with tons of holes in them *cough,ATR,cough*.. yeah yeah, weight saving blah blah.. haha, they just look so ugly to me. And worst of all.. any fantasy style knife that can be confused for a dragon's claw or wizard's sword.. just.. no. Fortunately, these types of aesthetic trappings don't apply to a large majority of Spyderco's lineup..
Deal-breakers for me are almost always aesthetic.. I like simple.. any type of unnecessary, excessive or decorative patterning/milling/embellishment is a no-go for me. Crazy colors.. probably not for me. Those awful rainbow-pattern aftermarket pocket clips.. for the love of God, why?! Knives with tons of holes in them *cough,ATR,cough*.. yeah yeah, weight saving blah blah.. haha, they just look so ugly to me. And worst of all.. any fantasy style knife that can be confused for a dragon's claw or wizard's sword.. just.. no. Fortunately, these types of aesthetic trappings don't apply to a large majority of Spyderco's lineup..
Rick H.
..well, that escalated quickly..
..well, that escalated quickly..
Re: Design details that are deal breakers
this is a really interesting thread, i hadnt really thought about alot of the points raised, probably as i subconciously 'reject' some designs as not for me but not thinking about the why
i tend to use folders for more detail 'small' work - i always use a fixed blade for heavy duty so my folders are small enough that i naturally choke up, i think i have average sized hands where around 3-4" handle works for me - para3 / delica etc and i dont feel forced into position by the grooves etc
i like thumb ramps and include the jimping on the dragonfly although im feeling that the handle might be just a bit too small so thinking of the urban or ukpk to try next
agree with the sharpening choil issue - i understand the need for them for sharpening but agree they cause hangups so they are out for me
love of the deep carry wireclip has caused me to hate the standard - again i dont own long folders - have moddied my para3 to have wireclip - a lynch etc just isnt the same to me
i tend to use folders for more detail 'small' work - i always use a fixed blade for heavy duty so my folders are small enough that i naturally choke up, i think i have average sized hands where around 3-4" handle works for me - para3 / delica etc and i dont feel forced into position by the grooves etc
i like thumb ramps and include the jimping on the dragonfly although im feeling that the handle might be just a bit too small so thinking of the urban or ukpk to try next
agree with the sharpening choil issue - i understand the need for them for sharpening but agree they cause hangups so they are out for me
love of the deep carry wireclip has caused me to hate the standard - again i dont own long folders - have moddied my para3 to have wireclip - a lynch etc just isnt the same to me
Andy
Necker - Ladybug Hawkbill Salt
Mon-Fri - Delica4 in Cruwear
Sat-Sun - Para3 in Cruwear
Urban K390 (2.61"), Bow River (for slicing jerky)
Want to try- PM2 CF M4 OR Cruwear , GB2, Bradley Bowie
Gone - Delica ZDP189, PM2 Cruwear, Para3 LW BD1N, Para3 S30V, Junction, Ti UKPK
Necker - Ladybug Hawkbill Salt
Mon-Fri - Delica4 in Cruwear
Sat-Sun - Para3 in Cruwear
Urban K390 (2.61"), Bow River (for slicing jerky)
Want to try- PM2 CF M4 OR Cruwear , GB2, Bradley Bowie
Gone - Delica ZDP189, PM2 Cruwear, Para3 LW BD1N, Para3 S30V, Junction, Ti UKPK
- kennethsime
- Member
- Posts: 4786
- Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2011 8:28 pm
- Location: California
Re: Design details that are deal breakers
I love a good choil. In fact, I'm so hesitant to buy a knife without a choil that I've never owned a Delica. I'm waiting for the day they come out with a Spyderco Meadowlark, because I like that design better but I want VG-10 or better.
I really don't like the "blurple" handle color. Maybe this isn't so big of a deal because we can dye it black, but the whole S110V line doesn't really appeal to me.
I can't stand liner locks. There are so many better designs out there, like the compression lock, that I just won't buy a liner lock anymore. I don't even really like RIL/frame locks anymore.
I really want all of my knives to be FFG at this point. The Dragonfly is the exception, but even that is almost FFG.
Finally, my biggest deal breaker: thumb studs. Guess I'm lucky in this department, because I only really buy Spydercos.
I really don't like the "blurple" handle color. Maybe this isn't so big of a deal because we can dye it black, but the whole S110V line doesn't really appeal to me.
I can't stand liner locks. There are so many better designs out there, like the compression lock, that I just won't buy a liner lock anymore. I don't even really like RIL/frame locks anymore.
I really want all of my knives to be FFG at this point. The Dragonfly is the exception, but even that is almost FFG.
Finally, my biggest deal breaker: thumb studs. Guess I'm lucky in this department, because I only really buy Spydercos.
I'm happiest with Micarta and Tool Steel.
Top four in rotation: K390 + GCM PM2, ZCarta Shaman, Crucarta PM2, K390 + GCM Straight Spine Stretch.
Top four in rotation: K390 + GCM PM2, ZCarta Shaman, Crucarta PM2, K390 + GCM Straight Spine Stretch.
Re: Design details that are deal breakers
kennethsime wrote: ↑Wed Jan 08, 2020 10:03 amFinally, my biggest deal breaker: thumb studs. Guess I'm lucky in this department, because I only really buy Spydercos.
I would love to own a Sebenza but I refuse to pay $400+ for a knife that uses a thumb stud. It's obsolete IMO and it's crazy that it's 2020 and CRK still use them.
All SE all the time since 2017
~David
~David
Re: Design details that are deal breakers
Evil D wrote: ↑Wed Jan 08, 2020 10:35 amkennethsime wrote: ↑Wed Jan 08, 2020 10:03 amFinally, my biggest deal breaker: thumb studs. Guess I'm lucky in this department, because I only really buy Spydercos.
I would love to own a Sebenza but I refuse to pay $400+ for a knife that uses a thumb stud. It's obsolete IMO and it's crazy that it's 2020 and CRK still use them.
Nothing wrong with thumb studs. :D
I normally have at least one CRK around that I carry. :)
Re: Design details that are deal breakers
Ankerson wrote: ↑Wed Jan 08, 2020 10:42 amEvil D wrote: ↑Wed Jan 08, 2020 10:35 amkennethsime wrote: ↑Wed Jan 08, 2020 10:03 amFinally, my biggest deal breaker: thumb studs. Guess I'm lucky in this department, because I only really buy Spydercos.
I would love to own a Sebenza but I refuse to pay $400+ for a knife that uses a thumb stud. It's obsolete IMO and it's crazy that it's 2020 and CRK still use them.
Nothing wrong with thumb studs. :D
I normally have at least one CRK around that I carry. :)
Probably not but at that price point it's harder for me to compromise.
All SE all the time since 2017
~David
~David
Re: Design details that are deal breakers
Evil D wrote: ↑Wed Jan 08, 2020 10:44 amAnkerson wrote: ↑Wed Jan 08, 2020 10:42 amEvil D wrote: ↑Wed Jan 08, 2020 10:35 amkennethsime wrote: ↑Wed Jan 08, 2020 10:03 amFinally, my biggest deal breaker: thumb studs. Guess I'm lucky in this department, because I only really buy Spydercos.
I would love to own a Sebenza but I refuse to pay $400+ for a knife that uses a thumb stud. It's obsolete IMO and it's crazy that it's 2020 and CRK still use them.
Nothing wrong with thumb studs. :D
I normally have at least one CRK around that I carry. :)
Probably not but at that price point it's harder for me to compromise.
Different strokes....
I open my Spyderco's the same way as I do my CRK's so it doesn't make any difference to me.
- kennethsime
- Member
- Posts: 4786
- Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2011 8:28 pm
- Location: California
Re: Design details that are deal breakers
Ditto, D. I love the classic Sebenza, but would love it a lot more with a 14mm round hole opening. :-) For my money, I think I'd rather have a Ti Millie.Evil D wrote: ↑Wed Jan 08, 2020 10:35 amI would love to own a Sebenza but I refuse to pay $400+ for a knife that uses a thumb stud. It's obsolete IMO and it's crazy that it's 2020 and CRK still use them.kennethsime wrote: ↑Wed Jan 08, 2020 10:03 amFinally, my biggest deal breaker: thumb studs. Guess I'm lucky in this department, because I only really buy Spydercos.
I've seen the "spydiebenza" mods, but haven't had a chance to handle one. To my eye, it seems a bit cramped, like your thumb is going to have a hard time getting past the liner to access the round hole.
I'm happiest with Micarta and Tool Steel.
Top four in rotation: K390 + GCM PM2, ZCarta Shaman, Crucarta PM2, K390 + GCM Straight Spine Stretch.
Top four in rotation: K390 + GCM PM2, ZCarta Shaman, Crucarta PM2, K390 + GCM Straight Spine Stretch.
Re: Design details that are deal breakers
Yeah, I think thumb studs are my second least favorite opening method. Most do them wrong. I think CRK does a good job, TRM too.Evil D wrote: ↑Wed Jan 08, 2020 10:35 amkennethsime wrote: ↑Wed Jan 08, 2020 10:03 amFinally, my biggest deal breaker: thumb studs. Guess I'm lucky in this department, because I only really buy Spydercos.
I would love to own a Sebenza but I refuse to pay $400+ for a knife that uses a thumb stud. It's obsolete IMO and it's crazy that it's 2020 and CRK still use them.
I'm still holding out hope that one day CRK will do a collab where Sal gets to handle the sharp end, with the machining and overall package at Reeve's shop. Maybe based on the 31 or the Umnum. I'd carry that often. I think Spyderco does much better blades.