Military 2. What exactly is going on?

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Bdubs808
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Re: Military 2. What exactly is going on?

Postby Bdubs808 » Mon Nov 11, 2019 9:26 pm

sal wrote:
Mon Nov 11, 2019 12:30 pm
I have a Compression lock prototype.

sal
This news makes me very happy. So pleased that Sal and Co. are ready to move forward with the evolution of this classic model. 3 cheers
:spyder:

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Re: Military 2. What exactly is going on?

Postby ugaarguy » Mon Nov 11, 2019 9:27 pm

glutofknives wrote:
Mon Nov 11, 2019 5:59 pm
I think a tough steel is best for the military’s fine tip and thin geometry. I would love to see a debut in cruwear, or d2.
Why D2 or CruWear? According to Larrin's data, there are significantly tougher steels at similar hardness - https://knifesteelnerds.com/toughness-database/.

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Re: Military 2. What exactly is going on?

Postby AccountDeletedUserRequest » Mon Nov 11, 2019 9:35 pm

D2 isn't tough. Always surprised me how much folks like it for fixed blades.

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Re: Military 2. What exactly is going on?

Postby Ric » Mon Nov 11, 2019 10:42 pm

I prefer S30V over D2.
Cruwear would be nice.

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Re: Military 2. What exactly is going on?

Postby Ric » Mon Nov 11, 2019 11:00 pm

I am confused.

Does the Military 2 have a 2" blade or a longer one?

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Re: Military 2. What exactly is going on?

Postby steelcity16 » Mon Nov 11, 2019 11:05 pm

ugaarguy wrote:
Mon Nov 11, 2019 9:27 pm
glutofknives wrote:
Mon Nov 11, 2019 5:59 pm
I think a tough steel is best for the military’s fine tip and thin geometry. I would love to see a debut in cruwear, or d2.
Why D2 or CruWear? According to Larrin's data, there are significantly tougher steels at similar hardness - https://knifesteelnerds.com/toughness-database/.

That is ingot Cruwear. The "Cruwear" used in current Spydies is CPM-CRUWEAR, which isn't listed.
:spyder: CRU-CARTA THEM ALL! :spyder:

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Re: Military 2. What exactly is going on?

Postby Pancake » Mon Nov 11, 2019 11:13 pm

Ric: no, it should have the same blade length as normal Millie

Well well, only thing I have to do is just wait.....I am a bit sad that comp lock Millie come first but oh well, I guess I am in the weird camp that don't like comp lock...so still waiting for that Stop lock.
In the pocket: Chaparral FRN, Native Chief, Police 4 K390, Pacific Salt SE, Manix 2 G10 REX45
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Re: Military 2. What exactly is going on?

Postby ugaarguy » Mon Nov 11, 2019 11:14 pm

steelcity16 wrote:
Mon Nov 11, 2019 11:05 pm
ugaarguy wrote:
Mon Nov 11, 2019 9:27 pm
glutofknives wrote:
Mon Nov 11, 2019 5:59 pm
I think a tough steel is best for the military’s fine tip and thin geometry. I would love to see a debut in cruwear, or d2.
Why D2 or CruWear? According to Larrin's data, there are significantly tougher steels at similar hardness - https://knifesteelnerds.com/toughness-database/.

That is ingot Cruwear. The "Cruwear" used in current Spydies is CPM-CRUWEAR, which isn't listed.
Z-Wear = CPM Cru-Wear, just like Z-Finit=LC200N=cronidur 30. It would be nice to see what Z-Finit and Z-Wear do toughness wise at the same hardness, or even a range of the same hardnesses.

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Re: Military 2. What exactly is going on?

Postby Wartstein » Tue Nov 12, 2019 1:35 am

I have expressed already how much I am glad for the many,many forum members who´ll love a possible comp.lock Millie :), and I think going with a comp.lock makes total sense to keep the Military family members rather similare to each ohter and such a version most likely will sell very well!

For my personal preferences though it makes not much of a difference if the Millie has a linerlock or a comp.lock.
Both not my favorites, perhaps I even prefer a good Spyderco linerlock over a comp.lock (for example: Concerning operating the lock with gloves!)

So I am STILL very interested in the genuin question of this thread: What happened to the, according to Vivi, already almost existing STOP LOCK Millie?
Certainly a comp.lock Millie will sell great and is a sensible choice, but still the stop lock (from all I know about it), would suit the Millie very well (too). And I seem to remember, that a stop lock Millie was not planned to REPLACE the linerlock version anyway, but as a second option..

Maybe Sal would like to chime in on this... ?!
Top three going by pocket-time: Endura 4 in VG 10/Micarta-scales; Stretch 1 in VG 10; Endura 4 in HAP 40

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Re: Military 2. What exactly is going on?

Postby Pancake » Tue Nov 12, 2019 2:54 am

Warstein, you are certainly not alone in the I-dont-like-linerlock-complock group :D

I hope that one day we get stop lock Military
In the pocket: Chaparral FRN, Native Chief, Police 4 K390, Pacific Salt SE, Manix 2 G10 REX45
On belt: Bow River, Waterway

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Re: Military 2. What exactly is going on?

Postby Wartstein » Tue Nov 12, 2019 3:13 am

Pancake wrote:
Tue Nov 12, 2019 2:54 am
Warstein, you are certainly not alone in the I-dont-like-linerlock-complock group :D

I hope that one day we get stop lock Military
A stop lock Millie would be cool (as far as I can imagine how a stop lock should work and feel).

/ "don't like linerlock comp lock" is maybe put a bit too strongly (a good liner lock has its pros!), its more like "prefer backlock and CBBL..." ;)
Top three going by pocket-time: Endura 4 in VG 10/Micarta-scales; Stretch 1 in VG 10; Endura 4 in HAP 40

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Re: Military 2. What exactly is going on?

Postby Pancake » Tue Nov 12, 2019 3:16 am

Wartstein wrote:
Tue Nov 12, 2019 3:13 am
A stop lock Millie would be cool (as far as I can imagine how a stop lock should work and feel).

/ "don't like linerlock comp lock" is maybe put a bit too strongly (a good liner lock has its pros!), its more like "prefer backlock and CBBL..." ;)
Yeah,backlock fanatics united! :D
In the pocket: Chaparral FRN, Native Chief, Police 4 K390, Pacific Salt SE, Manix 2 G10 REX45
On belt: Bow River, Waterway

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Re: Military 2. What exactly is going on?

Postby Sumdumguy » Tue Nov 12, 2019 3:42 am

Wartstein wrote:
Tue Nov 12, 2019 1:35 am
I have expressed already how much I am glad for the many,many forum members who´ll love a possible comp.lock Millie :), and I think going with a comp.lock makes total sense to keep the Military family members rather similare to each ohter and such a version most likely will sell very well!

For my personal preferences though it makes not much of a difference if the Millie has a linerlock or a comp.lock.
Both not my favorites, perhaps I even prefer a good Spyderco linerlock over a comp.lock (for example: Concerning operating the lock with gloves!)

So I am STILL very interested in the genuin question of this thread: What happened to the, according to Vivi, already almost existing STOP LOCK Millie?
Certainly a comp.lock Millie will sell great and is a sensible choice, but still the stop lock (from all I know about it), would suit the Millie very well (too). And I seem to remember, that a stop lock Millie was not planned to REPLACE the linerlock version anyway, but as a second option..

Maybe Sal would like to chime in on this... ?!
I have to disagree with you on the gloves issue. I was working outside yesterday in the snow, 12 degrees, with big fluffy gloves on. My Caribbean was opened and closed numerous times with zero issues.

Comp locks can and do work very well with winter gloves on.

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Re: Military 2. What exactly is going on?

Postby Rutger » Tue Nov 12, 2019 3:55 am

Just like Evil D mentioned i think an open back design is the best for the millie. I also think the liner lock is great for operation with gloves. Now the compression lock we are all used to is operated from the back of the knife. But can´t we mate the liner lock with the compression lock and have it be operated like a liner lock at the bottom, but with the benefits of the strength of a compression lock. Sure the fidget factor goes down, but it would make operation with gloves so much better.
And maybe you could design the compression lock so that it can be operated from both the top and bottom? That would make everyone happy. I understand that would take scales that are strong enough so that the metal liner isn't needed for structural strength.

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Re: Military 2. What exactly is going on?

Postby Sumdumguy » Tue Nov 12, 2019 4:00 am

Rutger wrote:
Tue Nov 12, 2019 3:55 am
Just like Evil D mentioned i think an open back design is the best for the millie. I also think the liner lock is great for operation with gloves. Now the compression lock we are all used to is operated from the back of the knife. But can´t we mate the liner lock with the compression lock and have it be operated like a liner lock at the bottom, but with the benefits of the strength of a compression lock. Sure the fidget factor goes down, but it would make operation with gloves so much better.
And maybe you could design the compression lock so that it can be operated from both the top and bottom? That would make everyone happy. I understand that would take scales that are strong enough so that the metal liner isn't needed for structural strength.
If you want a liner lock, get an original Military. Let the rest of us who don't like liner locks have one to enjoy.

The liner lock is the only reason I haven't owned a Military yet. This will change that, finally.

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Re: Military 2. What exactly is going on?

Postby Rutger » Tue Nov 12, 2019 4:38 am

Sumdumguy wrote:
Tue Nov 12, 2019 4:00 am
If you want a liner lock, get an original Military. Let the rest of us who don't like liner locks have one to enjoy.

The liner lock is the only reason I haven't owned a Military yet. This will change that, finally.
What is your problem?

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Re: Military 2. What exactly is going on?

Postby Wartstein » Tue Nov 12, 2019 4:56 am

Sumdumguy wrote:
Tue Nov 12, 2019 3:42 am
Wartstein wrote:
Tue Nov 12, 2019 1:35 am
I have to disagree with you on the gloves issue. I was working outside yesterday in the snow, 12 degrees, with big fluffy gloves on. My Caribbean was opened and closed numerous times with zero issues.

Comp locks can and do work very well with winter gloves on.
Glad it works for you! :)

Maybe it also depends on the particular model and how exactly the comp lock is built? Or if the gloves fit well/ tight?
Talking from my own, personal experience, for me PM2 and especially Kapara are clearly inferior to both linerlock and backlock when it comes to operation with gloves.
I also can remember a thread about the best "winter folder", where many stated, that linerlocks would work best with gloves...

But I have to admit: I am generally used to linerlocks and especially backlocks more than to comp.locks.
Top three going by pocket-time: Endura 4 in VG 10/Micarta-scales; Stretch 1 in VG 10; Endura 4 in HAP 40

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Re: Military 2. What exactly is going on?

Postby Sumdumguy » Tue Nov 12, 2019 5:13 am

Rutger wrote:
Tue Nov 12, 2019 4:38 am
Sumdumguy wrote:
Tue Nov 12, 2019 4:00 am
If you want a liner lock, get an original Military. Let the rest of us who don't like liner locks have one to enjoy.

The liner lock is the only reason I haven't owned a Military yet. This will change that, finally.
What is your problem?
I badly cut myself with one when I was a youngster and haven't used one since. I do enjoy the Mantra though. It has the flipper tab that acts as a kick on a backlock.

Unless there's a block to keep the blade away from it, I don't want my finger anywhere near a blade that cuts on contact.
I almost bought a Ti Military recently, but I just couldn't do it. Then the Military 2 thread started sounding off, so I guess it's a sign.

There are a few other issues related to working conditions that make it a more dangerous locking method for me. In the end, the reason is that the compression lock outperforms all other locks in working safety for me.
Wartstein wrote:
Sumdumguy wrote:
Tue Nov 12, 2019 3:42 am
Wartstein wrote:
Tue Nov 12, 2019 1:35 am
I have to disagree with you on the gloves issue. I was working outside yesterday in the snow, 12 degrees, with big fluffy gloves on. My Caribbean was opened and closed numerous times with zero issues.

Comp locks can and do work very well with winter gloves on.
Glad it works for you! :)

Maybe it also depends on the particular model and how exactly the comp lock is built? Or if the gloves fit well/ tight?
Talking from my own, personal experience, for me PM2 and especially Kapara are clearly inferior to both linerlock and backlock when it comes to operation with gloves.
I also can remember a thread about the best "winter folder", where many stated, that linerlocks would work best with gloves...

But I have to admit: I am generally used to linerlocks and especially backlocks more than to comp.locks.
The Kapara had a hideously tight cutout, so I can understand that. I've never had a single problem with one handed operation of the PM2 or Caribbean while wearing gloves. Maybe if it was cold enough for mitts, it could pose a problem. But at that point I'd have a fixed blade out.

A backlock would be my second choice for a folder, I love those too.

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Re: Military 2. What exactly is going on?

Postby Wartstein » Tue Nov 12, 2019 5:14 am

Sumdumguy wrote:
Tue Nov 12, 2019 4:00 am
Rutger wrote:
Tue Nov 12, 2019 3:55 am
Just like Evil D mentioned i think an open back design is the best for the millie. I also think the liner lock is great for operation with gloves. Now the compression lock we are all used to is operated from the back of the knife. But can´t we mate the liner lock with the compression lock and have it be operated like a liner lock at the bottom, but with the benefits of the strength of a compression lock. Sure the fidget factor goes down, but it would make operation with gloves so much better.
And maybe you could design the compression lock so that it can be operated from both the top and bottom? That would make everyone happy. I understand that would take scales that are strong enough so that the metal liner isn't needed for structural strength.
If you want a liner lock, get an original Military. Let the rest of us who don't like liner locks have one to enjoy.

The liner lock is the only reason I haven't owned a Military yet. This will change that, finally.
I think it would be great if the Millie came in BOTH variants and not that the comp.lock would actually REPLACE the linerlock.

Again, I have expressed how glad I am for the many, many people who love the comp.lock, when the Millie comes in that comp.lock variant (and I mean it!!)

But since this thread originally is about the stop lock Millie, and then "derailed" into a general thread about a possible Military 2, I may say: One of the good things of the (current) Military is, that it is in many ways really designed for "Military-" or harder outdoor use. And that´s where a linerlock imho has advantages over a comp.lock, while both have about the same DISadavantages (main one: Not absolutely safe concerning opening in the pocket).

Other than that "fingers never in the blade path when closing- thing" (which should really not be an issue for experienced knife users (but sure for beginners), especially if the blade has a finger choil), the linerlock is a "safer" one. Most people will have the knife in a more secure grip (conerning dropping) when closing a linerlock knife, and it is imho just easier to hit that "linerlock bar" while holding the knife secure in the (cold, wet, or glove wearing) hand, than to hit the more or less small comp.lock tab, while when doing so often times just pinching the knife handle.

Theoretically the comp.lock is "stronger", but the Millie liner lock is also really strong enough (I never heard anyone complaining it would be too weak).

Don´t get me wrong, the comp.lock is a cool, ingenious design, and I think it´s a good and logical idea to bring out a comp.lock Millie!! In most scenarios it will work well, but still there should be also a version for real, cold, wet, maybe having to operate it fast and under stress - scenario.
Last edited by Wartstein on Tue Nov 12, 2019 5:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
Top three going by pocket-time: Endura 4 in VG 10/Micarta-scales; Stretch 1 in VG 10; Endura 4 in HAP 40

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Re: Military 2. What exactly is going on?

Postby Wartstein » Tue Nov 12, 2019 5:18 am

Sumdumguy wrote:
Tue Nov 12, 2019 5:13 am
Rutger wrote:
Tue Nov 12, 2019 4:38 am
Sumdumguy wrote:
Tue Nov 12, 2019 4:00 am

Wartstein wrote:
Sumdumguy wrote:
Tue Nov 12, 2019 3:42 am
Wartstein wrote:
Tue Nov 12, 2019 1:35 am
I have to disagree with you on the gloves issue. I was working outside yesterday in the snow, 12 degrees, with big fluffy gloves on. My Caribbean was opened and closed numerous times with zero issues.

Comp locks can and do work very well with winter gloves on.
Glad it works for you! :)

Maybe it also depends on the particular model and how exactly the comp lock is built? Or if the gloves fit well/ tight?
Talking from my own, personal experience, for me PM2 and especially Kapara are clearly inferior to both linerlock and backlock when it comes to operation with gloves.
I also can remember a thread about the best "winter folder", where many stated, that linerlocks would work best with gloves...

But I have to admit: I am generally used to linerlocks and especially backlocks more than to comp.locks.
The Kapara had a hideously tight cutout, so I can understand that. I've never had a single problem with one handed operation of the PM2 or Caribbean while wearing gloves. Maybe if it was cold enough for mitts, it could pose a problem. But at that point I'd have a fixed blade out.

A backlock would be my second choice for a folder, I love those too.
Thanks for your reply! Might just be, that you are more used to comp.locks than I am.
Still, I am quite sure if we did a poll about which locks work best with gloves, both liner-and backlocj would get more votes than comp.lock.

But in the end that would be totally irrelevant anyway, the important thing is that anyone finds out what works best for him or her personally :)
Top three going by pocket-time: Endura 4 in VG 10/Micarta-scales; Stretch 1 in VG 10; Endura 4 in HAP 40


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