Your "return ethics"?

Discuss Spyderco's products and history.
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Tims
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Re: Your "return ethics"?

Postby Tims » Sun Nov 10, 2019 2:02 am

Regarding the ethics of returning a knife because you changed your mind or don’t like it.

Not something I would do personally. We all hold ourselves to certain values. One of mine is personal accountability. Sometimes it costs me money.

I do not stand in judgement of those who don’t hold themselves to the same values. It is my value and I chose to live by it.

Do what you feel comfortable with, you’re well within your rights to return a knife. Though I do fear that perhaps not everyone holds themselves to the same standard of what you consider ‘unused’.

I’ve received somebodys ‘unused’ return and it sucks. So, if you’re reading this and you’ve returned a knife used, f*ck you.

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Re: Your "return ethics"?

Postby AccountDeletedUserRequest » Sun Nov 10, 2019 2:05 am

People who dislike backlocks are morally bankrupt. :D

I've never sent a Spyderco back. I did manage to break an Endura being stupid and sent it in for Spyderco to look at, and was very lucky to receive a new knife in return. I also sent back an Opinel that had a faulty heat treat. The edge crumbled apart on wood. Got that replaced easily.

I wouldn't order a knife I'm not sure if I'll like, and return it if I decide I don't. If I can't handle one in person first, I simply accept that risk.

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Wartstein
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Re: Your "return ethics"?

Postby Wartstein » Sun Nov 10, 2019 2:16 am

Tims wrote:
Sun Nov 10, 2019 2:02 am
Regarding the ethics of returning a knife because you changed your mind or don’t like it.

Not something I would do personally. We all hold ourselves to certain values. One of mine is personal accountability. Sometimes it costs me money.

I do not stand in judgement of those who don’t hold themselves to the same values. It is my value and I chose to live by it.

Do what you feel comfortable with, you’re well within your rights to return a knife. Though I do fear that perhaps not everyone holds themselves to the same standard of what you consider ‘unused’.

I’ve received somebodys ‘unused’ return and it sucks. So, if you’re reading this and you’ve returned a knife used, f*ck you.
Thanks for your honest reply!

From the fact that I even started this thread and asked for opinions, you can see that I am not really certain what is "right" here, and so I appreciate all of the honest inputs a lot!

For a long time I was like you and somehow thought: Other than it is with other items, there is no way I´d ever return a knife (unless it is clearly defective of course).

I just changed my mind a bit someday (but again, I actually only ONCE did return a knife immidiately).
I KNOW for myself, I would NEVER return a knife if it was used in the slightest manner (I don´teven touch the blade other than on the opening hole, and that spot I wipe off thouroughly). So in fact it IS really totally unused, "touched" even less than quality control did or the "next customer" would in the first second after receiving it.

Just the theoretical option of allowing myselt to return a knife as a very last possibility made me definitely order (and KEEP) MORE Spydercos (and by that also support the brand more) than I would have without the option (and again, I only once made use of the totally official return option and got another knife instead from the same store).

I just don´t really see what is the problem for a customer, if he or she gets a perfect knife, though this knife has been touched by another person before? I myselfwould not mind that at all.

But you are totally right: Returning an even slightly used knife really sucks!! But if (other) people do so, that is something I have absolutely no influence on...
Top three going by pocket-time: Endura 4 in VG 10/Micarta-scales; Stretch 1 in VG 10; Endura 4 in HAP 40

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Re: Your "return ethics"?

Postby Wartstein » Sun Nov 10, 2019 2:28 am

Vivi wrote:
Sun Nov 10, 2019 2:05 am
People who dislike backlocks are morally bankrupt. :D

I've never sent a Spyderco back. I did manage to break an Endura being stupid and sent it in for Spyderco to look at, and was very lucky to receive a new knife in return. I also sent back an Opinel that had a faulty heat treat. The edge crumbled apart on wood. Got that replaced easily.

I wouldn't order a knife I'm not sure if I'll like, and return it if I decide I don't. If I can't handle one in person first, I simply accept that risk.
Thanks for your reply, Vivi!

Just for the sake of interest, let me construct an extreme example:

Lets say,
you were really tight on money and could only afford ONE knife every two years
you´d do your research and order a knife you´re sure you will at least somehow like
The retailer had a totally official, included in the deal, no questions asked return policy ( and that is actually even included in the price you pas)
The knife arrives, you take it in hand and immidiately realize: You would never carry it (lets say because it totally does not fit your hand at all or even hurt it )
So the knife is totally unused, you just held it in hand once
selling on the secondary market would be really cumbersome where you live

Would you feel somehow "ethically obliged" to keep it (cause legally you would NOT have to of course)?

Honest question, this topic really starts to interest me from a socio-psychological and philosphical point of view... ;)
Last edited by Wartstein on Sun Nov 10, 2019 2:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
Top three going by pocket-time: Endura 4 in VG 10/Micarta-scales; Stretch 1 in VG 10; Endura 4 in HAP 40

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Tims
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Re: Your "return ethics"?

Postby Tims » Sun Nov 10, 2019 2:32 am

Wartstein wrote:
Sun Nov 10, 2019 2:16 am
Tims wrote:
Sun Nov 10, 2019 2:02 am
Regarding the ethics of returning a knife because you changed your mind or don’t like it.

Not something I would do personally. We all hold ourselves to certain values. One of mine is personal accountability. Sometimes it costs me money.

I do not stand in judgement of those who don’t hold themselves to the same values. It is my value and I chose to live by it.

Do what you feel comfortable with, you’re well within your rights to return a knife. Though I do fear that perhaps not everyone holds themselves to the same standard of what you consider ‘unused’.

I’ve received somebodys ‘unused’ return and it sucks. So, if you’re reading this and you’ve returned a knife used, f*ck you.
Thanks for your honest reply!

From the fact that I even started this thread and asked for opinions, you can see that I am not really certain what is "right" here, and so I appreciate all of the honest inputs a lot!

For a long time I was like you and somehow thought: Other than it is with other items, there is no way I´d ever return a knife (unless it is clearly defective of course).

I just changed my mind a bit someday (but again, I actually only ONCE did return a knife immidiately).
I KNOW for myself, I would NEVER return a knife if it was used in the slightest manner (I don´teven touch the blade other than on the opening hole, and that spot I wipe off thouroughly). So in fact it IS really totally unused, "touched" even less than quality control did or the "next customer" would in the first second after receiving it.

Just the theoretical option of allowing myselt to return a knife as a very last possibility made me definitely order (and KEEP) MORE Spydercos (and by that also support the brand more) than I would have without the option (and again, I only once made use of the totally official return option and got another knife instead from the same store).

I just don´t really see what is the problem for a customer, if he or she gets a perfect knife, though this knife has been touched by another person before? I myselfwould not mind that at all.

But you are totally right: Returning an even slightly used knife really sucks!! But if (other) people do so, that is something I have absolutely no influence on...
You obviously hold yourself to a certain standard when making the decision to return. I would be happy to receive one of your unused returns.

Not spoken about is what happens at the dealers end. You know they’re not taking a hit when someone returns a knife with defects.

I always ask the store to check my knives before shipping them out. I’ve only started doing it in the last few years. That way I know if I receive a knife with defects either a) they didn’t respect my request to check the knife over or b) they checked and made the conscious decision to ship it anyway. Either way, it will be something I consider when buying my next knife.

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Re: Your "return ethics"?

Postby AccountDeletedUserRequest » Sun Nov 10, 2019 3:28 am

Wartstein wrote:
Sun Nov 10, 2019 2:28 am
Vivi wrote:
Sun Nov 10, 2019 2:05 am
People who dislike backlocks are morally bankrupt. :D

I've never sent a Spyderco back. I did manage to break an Endura being stupid and sent it in for Spyderco to look at, and was very lucky to receive a new knife in return. I also sent back an Opinel that had a faulty heat treat. The edge crumbled apart on wood. Got that replaced easily.

I wouldn't order a knife I'm not sure if I'll like, and return it if I decide I don't. If I can't handle one in person first, I simply accept that risk.
Thanks for your reply, Vivi!

Just for the sake of interest, let me construct an extreme example:

Lets say,
you were really tight on money and could only afford ONE knife every two years
you´d do your research and order a knife you´re sure you will at least somehow like
The retailer had a totally official, included in the deal, no questions asked return policy ( and that is actually even included in the price you pas)
The knife arrives, you take it in hand and immidiately realize: You would never carry it (lets say because it totally does not fit your hand at all or even hurt it )
So the knife is totally unused, you just held it in hand once
selling on the secondary market would be really cumbersome where you live

Would you feel somehow "ethically obliged" to keep it (cause legally you would NOT have to of course)?

Honest question, this topic really starts to interest me from a socio-psychological and philosphical point of view... ;)
I'd ask to exchange it for a different model. I wouldn't feel 100% right returning it and asking for my money back. I'd do the same thing with shoes. They don't fit, I'd either sell them to someone I know or exchange them for something else.

I don't feel right giving a store a sale then taking it back. If there's an issue such as them not shipping the item within the specified time frame or they ship me the wrong product that's on them, but researching different models and making an educated decision is on me.

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Re: Your "return ethics"?

Postby Wartstein » Sun Nov 10, 2019 3:41 am

Vivi wrote:
Sun Nov 10, 2019 3:28 am
Wartstein wrote:
Sun Nov 10, 2019 2:28 am
Vivi wrote:
Sun Nov 10, 2019 2:05 am
Thanks for your reply, Vivi!

Just for the sake of interest, let me construct an extreme example:

Lets say,
you were really tight on money and could only afford ONE knife every two years
you´d do your research and order a knife you´re sure you will at least somehow like
The retailer had a totally official, included in the deal, no questions asked return policy ( and that is actually even included in the price you pas)
The knife arrives, you take it in hand and immidiately realize: You would never carry it (lets say because it totally does not fit your hand at all or even hurt it )
So the knife is totally unused, you just held it in hand once
selling on the secondary market would be really cumbersome where you live

Would you feel somehow "ethically obliged" to keep it (cause legally you would NOT have to of course)?

Honest question, this topic really starts to interest me from a socio-psychological and philosphical point of view... ;)
I'd ask to exchange it for a different model. I wouldn't feel 100% right returning it and asking for my money back. I'd do the same thing with shoes. They don't fit, I'd either sell them to someone I know or exchange them for something else.

I don't feel right giving a store a sale then taking it back. If there's an issue such as them not shipping the item within the specified time frame or they ship me the wrong product that's on them, but researching different models and making an educated decision is on me.
Thanks,Vivi!

That´s really interesting.

I always thought of myself as a rather honest and "ethically ok" guy, but based on your and most of the replies here this can be seen in a different light... (though with the only new knife I ever returned I practically DID ask for an exchange, cause I got a Manix LW instead of a Manix G10 from the same store. Sure, they sold me a "cheaper" knife in the end, so it was their loss).

I begin to wonder if there are really maybe even slight "cultural differences"? Where I live, literally and absolutely no one I know would have any problems whatsoever to return (unused!) items to an online store. It is just not an issue at all... Any person I´d ask here if it is ok to return an unused item / knife would rather be surprised by that question, cause it is just how everybody does,cause it is part of the deal and one actually PAYS for the opportunity to return items, and partly BECAUSE of that opportunity people order from online retailers and make their businesses thrive...

It is a bad analogy, but maybe just a bit like all the gun-law-discussions: In the US a big topic, in Europe or at least Austria not at all. Here it is just totally clear and accepted and "natural" that no one carries a gun...cultural difference, and a very different historical and socially background...
Top three going by pocket-time: Endura 4 in VG 10/Micarta-scales; Stretch 1 in VG 10; Endura 4 in HAP 40

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Re: Your "return ethics"?

Postby Sumdumguy » Sun Nov 10, 2019 5:35 am

If it has a CC number, it goes back.

Otherwise, I've never returned a knife.

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Wartstein
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Re: Your "return ethics"?

Postby Wartstein » Sun Nov 10, 2019 5:38 am

Sumdumguy wrote:
Sun Nov 10, 2019 5:35 am
If it has a CC number, it goes back.

Otherwise, I've never returned a knife.
May I ask: What is a "CC number"?
Top three going by pocket-time: Endura 4 in VG 10/Micarta-scales; Stretch 1 in VG 10; Endura 4 in HAP 40

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Re: Your "return ethics"?

Postby Sumdumguy » Sun Nov 10, 2019 5:41 am

Wartstein wrote:
Sun Nov 10, 2019 5:38 am
Sumdumguy wrote:
Sun Nov 10, 2019 5:35 am
If it has a CC number, it goes back.

Otherwise, I've never returned a knife.
May I ask: What is a "CC number"?
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Re: Your "return ethics"?

Postby AccountDeletedUserRequest » Sun Nov 10, 2019 7:46 am

Wartstein wrote:
Sun Nov 10, 2019 3:41 am
Vivi wrote:
Sun Nov 10, 2019 3:28 am
Wartstein wrote:
Sun Nov 10, 2019 2:28 am
Vivi wrote:
Sun Nov 10, 2019 2:05 am
Thanks for your reply, Vivi!

Just for the sake of interest, let me construct an extreme example:

Lets say,
you were really tight on money and could only afford ONE knife every two years
you´d do your research and order a knife you´re sure you will at least somehow like
The retailer had a totally official, included in the deal, no questions asked return policy ( and that is actually even included in the price you pas)
The knife arrives, you take it in hand and immidiately realize: You would never carry it (lets say because it totally does not fit your hand at all or even hurt it )
So the knife is totally unused, you just held it in hand once
selling on the secondary market would be really cumbersome where you live

Would you feel somehow "ethically obliged" to keep it (cause legally you would NOT have to of course)?

Honest question, this topic really starts to interest me from a socio-psychological and philosphical point of view... ;)
I'd ask to exchange it for a different model. I wouldn't feel 100% right returning it and asking for my money back. I'd do the same thing with shoes. They don't fit, I'd either sell them to someone I know or exchange them for something else.

I don't feel right giving a store a sale then taking it back. If there's an issue such as them not shipping the item within the specified time frame or they ship me the wrong product that's on them, but researching different models and making an educated decision is on me.
Thanks,Vivi!

That´s really interesting.

I always thought of myself as a rather honest and "ethically ok" guy, but based on your and most of the replies here this can be seen in a different light... (though with the only new knife I ever returned I practically DID ask for an exchange, cause I got a Manix LW instead of a Manix G10 from the same store. Sure, they sold me a "cheaper" knife in the end, so it was their loss).

I begin to wonder if there are really maybe even slight "cultural differences"? Where I live, literally and absolutely no one I know would have any problems whatsoever to return (unused!) items to an online store. It is just not an issue at all... Any person I´d ask here if it is ok to return an unused item / knife would rather be surprised by that question, cause it is just how everybody does,cause it is part of the deal and one actually PAYS for the opportunity to return items, and partly BECAUSE of that opportunity people order from online retailers and make their businesses thrive...

It is a bad analogy, but maybe just a bit like all the gun-law-discussions: In the US a big topic, in Europe or at least Austria not at all. Here it is just totally clear and accepted and "natural" that no one carries a gun...cultural difference, and a very different historical and socially background...
I have no issues returning a product regardless of where and how I purchased it. My issue is why I am returning it. I wouldn't buy something, decide I don't want it after all, then take it back. But I would return it if I found it to be faulty in some way.

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Re: Your "return ethics"?

Postby dsvirsky » Sun Nov 10, 2019 8:03 am

Sumdumguy wrote:
Sun Nov 10, 2019 5:35 am
If it has a CC number, it goes back.

Otherwise, I've never returned a knife.
If you don't mind my asking, "Why?"

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Wartstein
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Re: Your "return ethics"?

Postby Wartstein » Sun Nov 10, 2019 8:17 am

Vivi wrote:
Sun Nov 10, 2019 7:46 am
Wartstein wrote:
Sun Nov 10, 2019 3:41 am
Vivi wrote:
Sun Nov 10, 2019 3:28 am
Wartstein wrote:
Sun Nov 10, 2019 2:28 am


Thanks,Vivi!

That´s really interesting.

I always thought of myself as a rather honest and "ethically ok" guy, but based on your and most of the replies here this can be seen in a different light... (though with the only new knife I ever returned I practically DID ask for an exchange, cause I got a Manix LW instead of a Manix G10 from the same store. Sure, they sold me a "cheaper" knife in the end, so it was their loss).

I begin to wonder if there are really maybe even slight "cultural differences"? Where I live, literally and absolutely no one I know would have any problems whatsoever to return (unused!) items to an online store. It is just not an issue at all... Any person I´d ask here if it is ok to return an unused item / knife would rather be surprised by that question, cause it is just how everybody does,cause it is part of the deal and one actually PAYS for the opportunity to return items, and partly BECAUSE of that opportunity people order from online retailers and make their businesses thrive...

It is a bad analogy, but maybe just a bit like all the gun-law-discussions: In the US a big topic, in Europe or at least Austria not at all. Here it is just totally clear and accepted and "natural" that no one carries a gun...cultural difference, and a very different historical and socially background...
I have no issues returning a product regardless of where and how I purchased it. My issue is why I am returning it. I wouldn't buy something, decide I don't want it after all, then take it back. But I would return it if I found it to be faulty in some way.
This topic and the "differences " in "morally guidelines", if their might even be cultural or regional diferences and so on really starts to interest me. Still, I am aware of that I maybe should try and move it to the "off topic" section.

The interesting thing is: You (and for the most part me too, totally so at least in the past) stick to a "moral compass" when it comes to purchasing knives online, that is officialy not required at all. You could return an unused knife, and would still keep your part of a totally fair and square deal, and nobody would get harmed whatsoever (also not the next person who might purchase your returned knife).
In fact, you would make use of an opportunity online retailers explicitly offer, calculate in their prices (so you pay for that opportunity whenever you purchase and keep a knife, which will be the case 99% of the time,and of an opporttunity, which`s existence is actually GOOD for online retailers, and enhances there business (without being able to return items as a last ditch, less people would order online).

I just talked to some buddies I met this noon about this topic. All of them (and I guess literally everone where I live) sees it like this:

- In a brick and mortar store you can have a look at an item and decide,if you want to purchase it or not
- Then came online stores and had to think of an alternative /equivalent to this opportunity
- One would have been: We send you the item, you can look at it, you pay and keep it if you like it,otherwise send it back
- Another one (and they went with that one): You pay first, can have a look at the item afterwards, (when you receive it), but can send it back and be refunded if you don´t like it at all. Just as an equivalent to having a look at something in a physical store before deciding for a purchase.

Regardless, I´d buy in "real" brick and mortar stores anyway, but meanwhile there are NONE here, that carry at least one Spyderco...




I
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Re: Your "return ethics"?

Postby standy99 » Sun Nov 10, 2019 8:26 am

Does the store have a option to look at something and send it back without you paying return shipping ?

The return shipping would kill the return for me in Australia.
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Re: Your "return ethics"?

Postby Wartstein » Sun Nov 10, 2019 8:41 am

standy99 wrote:
Sun Nov 10, 2019 8:26 am
Does the store have a option to look at something and send it back without you paying return shipping ?

The return shipping would kill the return for me in Australia.
Some stores DO in fact. But to be honest: I even PREFER paying the return shipping costs, cause I feel: Those are really on ME and not the store!
And we have a lot of European stores which carry most Spydercos (for a much higher price than US stores of course), where I would pay around 15 USD for returning the knife (even only about 5 USD if it was an Austrian store, which are rare yet)
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Re: Your "return ethics"?

Postby Coffeetron » Sun Nov 10, 2019 8:45 am

Like I said in another thread. Why not add protective stickers to pivots & blade that void returns after removal? This way you can return the knife if you don't like it and it won't be "used" for the new buyer who gets a return.

Watch companies, hardware companies and surely others handle it this way.

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Re: Your "return ethics"?

Postby Wartstein » Sun Nov 10, 2019 8:54 am

Coffeetron wrote:
Sun Nov 10, 2019 8:45 am
Like I said in another thread. Why not add protective stickers to pivots & blade that void returns after removal? This way you can return the knife if you don't like it and it won't be "used" for the new buyer who gets a return.

Watch companies, hardware companies and surely others handle it this way.
Such a sticker would prevent opening / closing and holding the knife, wouldn´t it? I have to be honest: The moment I actually hold a knife, I know if I´ll carry it at least for some time or not (And in all cases except one I always kept the knife, even if I knew for sure it would not be a keeper. I still wanted to try and experience it for some time).
And for being able to hold it, I have to open it... :o

Since you´re an Austrian country fellow man: Do you happen to know other selling platforms here then "Willhaben" and "Shpock"? I REALLY always have a hard time in selling used knives here...for example it took me 1.5 years to sell my custom wood scale Millie, though I really did not ask for much money (MUCH less than a basic G10 / S30V Millie would cost)
Irgendwelche Ideen für mich??
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Re: Your "return ethics"?

Postby Coffeetron » Sun Nov 10, 2019 9:04 am

Wartstein wrote:
Sun Nov 10, 2019 8:54 am
Coffeetron wrote:
Sun Nov 10, 2019 8:45 am
Like I said in another thread. Why not add protective stickers to pivots & blade that void returns after removal? This way you can return the knife if you don't like it and it won't be "used" for the new buyer who gets a return.

Watch companies, hardware companies and surely others handle it this way.
Such a sticker would prevent opening / closing and holding the knife, wouldn´t it? I have to be honest: The moment I actually hold a knife, I know if I´ll carry it at least for some time or not (And in all cases except one I always kept the knife, even if I knew for sure it would not be a keeper. I still wanted to try and experience it for some time).
And for being able to hold it, I have to open it... :o

Since you´re an Austrian country fellow man: Do you happen to know other selling platforms here then "Willhaben" and "Shpock"? I REALLY always have a hard time in selling used knives here...for example it took me 1.5 years to sell my custom wood scale Millie, though I really did not ask for much money (MUCH less than a basic G10 / S30V Millie would cost)
Irgendwelche Ideen für mich??
I don't think it should prevent holding it. Maybe a sticker over the blade is an overkill since it should be expected that the retailer can distinguish a used and new blade. Even one "non removable" sticker over the pivot can prevent the knife from being opened. You can find those on laptops for example.

As a matter of fact, I saw your Millie on willhaben :D I think it was priced very reasonably! No idea, I try to sell a knife currently on ebay... will see how it goes. I sold dozens of watches since I am in that hobby mostly and can say its a pita.

My go to platform is ebay but the fees are high since you also pay paypal fees, I am not a member of other knife forums but maybe Messerforum or Bladeforum are good ideas...

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Re: Your "return ethics"?

Postby Doeswhateveraspidercan » Sun Nov 10, 2019 12:11 pm

The Meat man wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 2:18 pm
Doeswhateveraspidercan wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 1:44 pm

To me returning a knife just because you do not like something is not acceptable, there must be a flaw otherwise I just suck it up take my losses and hope to recover most of my principal selling on eBay.
If you bought something from Wal-Mart, and afterwards discovered that it didn't meet your needs or wants as you expected, would you not return it? (Of course assuming that you do not use or tinker with it, and that functionally there is nothing wrong with the product, just that it didn't meet your needs as you hoped it would've and wish to try something different.)

Honest question; I'm just curious if your principle applies only to knives or do you consider it universal across all transactions?
It applies universally. Before making a purchase of any kind I do my research and lots of it.

One of my professional duties is as purchaser for my company and clients.

If something is defective it gets returned. If something fails to function properly it gets returned.

Lord knows I have bought enough produce from Walmart that went bad immediately, sure I could return it. Do I? no kind of expect it so only buy what can be used swiftly.

Knives are a bit hard to tell if you are going to like or not let alone over the long run because they have to be purchased on line by the majority of us. I have purchased many I wanted to explore only to find out they got zero pocket time.

When this happens they are sold on eBay as used with detailed photos.

When this happens with difficult to ship or items that are just not worth it I give them away or like I did with a huge book collection take them to goodwill etc...

Yes I have even given away Spyderco knives that just were not something I liked. Have done so with people on this forum which some can confirm if they choose, when I could have easily retuned the knife.

It is interesting though how Walmart intentionally created the pretty much return anything for any reason policy which wiped out so many small business operators and competitors. Heck of a shrewd move on their part and I am certain figured into their business model.

After all how many really want to be in a Walmart return line out of all their customers?

Pretty small number I am guessing.

When it comes to knives and yes even Walmart I think but have no proof, this behavior is partly responsible for higher pricing to cover this activity.

Is it moral when the retailer sets the stage establishes the rules?

Well yes.

Is it moral to purchase with the intent to cherry pick and return at-least one or more for no other reason than you can get away with it?

For me the answer is no that is abusing the retailers return policy.

Is it moral for others? Not my call I’ve got to live with myself and you’ve got to live with yourself.


I do not intentionally buy more than one knife with the idea to cherry pick and return.

I primarily buy Spyderco and have often purchased backups like I am considering doing with the Smock I just received. With Spyderco cherry picking does not make sense. I have never had one of the same model be any different.

Right now I have a Buck in for warranty work, bought it new could see big gaps of daylight through the back lock blade was not centered and action in the pivot gritty as in unfinished.

The knife is one of 500 made unique and I love the model so warranty work instead of return.
I have spoken. :)

The Meat man
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Re: Your "return ethics"?

Postby The Meat man » Sun Nov 10, 2019 12:57 pm

Doeswhateveraspidercan wrote:
Sun Nov 10, 2019 12:11 pm
The Meat man wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 2:18 pm
Doeswhateveraspidercan wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 1:44 pm

To me returning a knife just because you do not like something is not acceptable, there must be a flaw otherwise I just suck it up take my losses and hope to recover most of my principal selling on eBay.
If you bought something from Wal-Mart, and afterwards discovered that it didn't meet your needs or wants as you expected, would you not return it? (Of course assuming that you do not use or tinker with it, and that functionally there is nothing wrong with the product, just that it didn't meet your needs as you hoped it would've and wish to try something different.)

Honest question; I'm just curious if your principle applies only to knives or do you consider it universal across all transactions?
It applies universally. Before making a purchase of any kind I do my research and lots of it.

One of my professional duties is as purchaser for my company and clients.

If something is defective it gets returned. If something fails to function properly it gets returned.

Lord knows I have bought enough produce from Walmart that went bad immediately, sure I could return it. Do I? no kind of expect it so only buy what can be used swiftly.

Knives are a bit hard to tell if you are going to like or not let alone over the long run because they have to be purchased on line by the majority of us. I have purchased many I wanted to explore only to find out they got zero pocket time.

When this happens they are sold on eBay as used with detailed photos.

When this happens with difficult to ship or items that are just not worth it I give them away or like I did with a huge book collection take them to goodwill etc...

Yes I have even given away Spyderco knives that just were not something I liked. Have done so with people on this forum which some can confirm if they choose, when I could have easily retuned the knife.

It is interesting though how Walmart intentionally created the pretty much return anything for any reason policy which wiped out so many small business operators and competitors. Heck of a shrewd move on their part and I am certain figured into their business model.

After all how many really want to be in a Walmart return line out of all their customers?

Pretty small number I am guessing.

When it comes to knives and yes even Walmart I think but have no proof, this behavior is partly responsible for higher pricing to cover this activity.

Is it moral when the retailer sets the stage establishes the rules?

Well yes. I do not intentionally buy more than one knife with the idea to cherry pick and return.

I primarily buy Spyderco and have often purchased backups like I am considering doing with the Smock I just received. With Spyderco cherry picking does not make sense. I have never had one of the same model be any different.

Right now I have a Buck in for warranty work, bought it new could see big gaps of daylight through the back lock blade was not centered and action in the pivot gritty as in unfinished.

The knife is one of 500 made unique and I love the model so warranty work instead of return.
I see what you are saying, and I agree that "cherry picking" (i.e., buying multiple knives just to pick the best one) is ethically questionable. However I don't think that is what the OP was doing. (I am open to correction on this OP)

No matter how much research you do, no matter how many YouTube videos you watch, ultimately, you will never know exactly how the knife feels until you get it in hand. And sometimes, despite all your research, it just isn't the right fit. This isn't cherry picking.

In the above case, which is, I believe, what Wartstein was talking about, as long as it is in keeping with the retailer's return policy, there is nothing morally or ethically wrong with returning an item whatsoever. In this case, the retailers absolutely do make the rules. It's their return policy; they are at perfect liberty to make it as they wish; if they consider "not liking it" a valid reason for returning, then it is a valid reason for returning.

Again, Wartstein, feel free to correct me if my understanding of your scenario is incorrect.
- Connor

"You live and learn. At any rate, you live."


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