The Serrata - tell me about it
The Serrata - tell me about it
Designwise this one looks pretty cool. And I learned that it's specially treated to outperform regular 440C. Plus it's stainless.
Strenghts? Weaknesses? What do you use it for? Is it suitable for kitchen use? Blade shape wise I can well imagine it to be a great food prep knife.
Of the fixed blade Spydie lineup, apart from a RWL34 mule, I own a Bushcraft and a Junction. The Serrata would go well in this company, don't you think?
Strenghts? Weaknesses? What do you use it for? Is it suitable for kitchen use? Blade shape wise I can well imagine it to be a great food prep knife.
Of the fixed blade Spydie lineup, apart from a RWL34 mule, I own a Bushcraft and a Junction. The Serrata would go well in this company, don't you think?
Last edited by archangel on Sun Oct 06, 2019 7:12 am, edited 2 times in total.
Michael
48 Spydies, 44 different models, 43 different steels
.
Grail knife, still to be acquired: original Tuff by Ed Schempp Feel free to help me find one at a reasonable price...
48 Spydies, 44 different models, 43 different steels
.
Grail knife, still to be acquired: original Tuff by Ed Schempp Feel free to help me find one at a reasonable price...
Re: The Serrata - tell me about it
I too would like to know!
Likes FRN
:spyder: MEMBER OF THE CRUWEAR NATION :spyder:
:spyder: MEMBER OF THE CRUWEAR NATION :spyder:
Re: The Serrata - tell me about it
What factory is it made in? Says Taiwan on the blade, but not Taichung - how many other Taiwan makers do we/you know that produce for Spyderco?
Michael
48 Spydies, 44 different models, 43 different steels
.
Grail knife, still to be acquired: original Tuff by Ed Schempp Feel free to help me find one at a reasonable price...
48 Spydies, 44 different models, 43 different steels
.
Grail knife, still to be acquired: original Tuff by Ed Schempp Feel free to help me find one at a reasonable price...
Re: The Serrata - tell me about it
Just watcbed a few video reviews. What a beefy blade! :eek: Which I dig... :D Probably not the best knife to cut thin slices of anything in the kitchen. Does anyone use it for food prep?
Michael
48 Spydies, 44 different models, 43 different steels
.
Grail knife, still to be acquired: original Tuff by Ed Schempp Feel free to help me find one at a reasonable price...
48 Spydies, 44 different models, 43 different steels
.
Grail knife, still to be acquired: original Tuff by Ed Schempp Feel free to help me find one at a reasonable price...
Re: The Serrata - tell me about it
I have one and have used it quite a bit. Design is great with a very useful blade shape. It's ok in the kitchen. Not a great slicer given the thickness of the stock. I could see using it to break down tough foods or some butcher tasks. I would baton it through chicken bones without hesitation. I find it better for general purpose and outdoor tasks rather than in the kitchen. Although... keeping one to use with a wooden mallet is not a bad idea. (I might do that).
It's Cast 440C. Rather than taking rolled 440C steel and grinding, milling, forging, or stamping it, it's melted to and cast into the shape of a knife. The cast steel is then ground into a blade. The difference is that the cast steel develops a dencritic structure.. Stuart also has a great post about how he makes these knives on the Edge Matters forum.
imo, the steel and the knife are underrated. I think you have to ask why Stuart Ackerman would have gone to the trouble to make this knife using 440C when so many other steels are available. You also have to ask why Spyderco would have made it with 440C. I would expect it to have some strong performance characteristics. And it does.
In my experience it doesn't behave like other steels. Just when you think it's starting to dull, it somehow starts cutting better. And then it just cuts and cuts and cuts. Doing testing similar to Cedric & Ada (10mm sisal rope) I've gotten ~300+ cuts from my Spyderco Serrata and over 550 from my Stuart Ackerman custom. Note that the Spyderco was a 17 DPS degrees and the custom was at 15 degrees. At 15 the Spyderco may have similar performance. This was with no special sharpening or even much care when sharpening. Single stone, minimal sharpening, and excellent edge retention.
It's also incredibly easy to get sharp. I do edge trailing strokes on 400 grit stone (I've tried AlOx and Naniwa Pro 400), free hand and EdgePro - doesn't seem to matter. 10-20 strokes per side and they both get back to that level of sharpness. No other steel I've used is this easy to sharpen and has that kind of edge retention. I'm going to try sharpening on other materials and see how it does. (brick, cinder block, etc.).
It's obviously a stout knife. Stuart has mentioned that because it's cast it has less toughness than rolled steel. This doesn't mean it's not tough. I think it just means it's not as tough. I have a fair amount of experience with cast materials. They are tough but generally not elastic or flexible. They will break without much deformation first. I'd expect these knives to behave that way. It doesn't matter much to me - I'm not prying or using them as levers. I've batoned my Spyderco Serrata but I haven't beaten the crap out of it. It did fine.
For me this is a great blade design with an amazingly durable steel at the edge. It's crazy how well it does and how easy it is to sharpen.
A couple of things I would change: I wish Spyderco had gone a little thinner on the stock - maybe 1mm less. I also wish it was a little thinner behind the edge. The custom is very thin (0.010" or less). I would not expect Spyderco to go that thin, but it could be thinner. Sal has mentioned the manufacturing challenges, and I suspect that plus concern about dealing with broken ones drove the thickness. I'm sure it was a thoughtful and wise decision by Spyderco. However, it would cut better if it were thinner behind the edge. (Again, taking it to 15 DPS may solve this problem.)
Lastly, if you have one, do yourself a favor and re-profile it. My edge from Spyderco was relatively obtuse (not literally, of course). It was in the 25 DPS range. I would take it to at least 18. 17 works well. I think 15 will be better.
Apologies for rambling. Hope this gave you some helpful info. I think this is a dramatically under-rated or ignored fixed blade that gets overlooked because of the steel name. I honestly believe if you gave this steel a cool new name people would rave about it.
EDIT: fixing some overly quit spell checker options.
It's Cast 440C. Rather than taking rolled 440C steel and grinding, milling, forging, or stamping it, it's melted to and cast into the shape of a knife. The cast steel is then ground into a blade. The difference is that the cast steel develops a dencritic structure.. Stuart also has a great post about how he makes these knives on the Edge Matters forum.
imo, the steel and the knife are underrated. I think you have to ask why Stuart Ackerman would have gone to the trouble to make this knife using 440C when so many other steels are available. You also have to ask why Spyderco would have made it with 440C. I would expect it to have some strong performance characteristics. And it does.
In my experience it doesn't behave like other steels. Just when you think it's starting to dull, it somehow starts cutting better. And then it just cuts and cuts and cuts. Doing testing similar to Cedric & Ada (10mm sisal rope) I've gotten ~300+ cuts from my Spyderco Serrata and over 550 from my Stuart Ackerman custom. Note that the Spyderco was a 17 DPS degrees and the custom was at 15 degrees. At 15 the Spyderco may have similar performance. This was with no special sharpening or even much care when sharpening. Single stone, minimal sharpening, and excellent edge retention.
It's also incredibly easy to get sharp. I do edge trailing strokes on 400 grit stone (I've tried AlOx and Naniwa Pro 400), free hand and EdgePro - doesn't seem to matter. 10-20 strokes per side and they both get back to that level of sharpness. No other steel I've used is this easy to sharpen and has that kind of edge retention. I'm going to try sharpening on other materials and see how it does. (brick, cinder block, etc.).
It's obviously a stout knife. Stuart has mentioned that because it's cast it has less toughness than rolled steel. This doesn't mean it's not tough. I think it just means it's not as tough. I have a fair amount of experience with cast materials. They are tough but generally not elastic or flexible. They will break without much deformation first. I'd expect these knives to behave that way. It doesn't matter much to me - I'm not prying or using them as levers. I've batoned my Spyderco Serrata but I haven't beaten the crap out of it. It did fine.
For me this is a great blade design with an amazingly durable steel at the edge. It's crazy how well it does and how easy it is to sharpen.
A couple of things I would change: I wish Spyderco had gone a little thinner on the stock - maybe 1mm less. I also wish it was a little thinner behind the edge. The custom is very thin (0.010" or less). I would not expect Spyderco to go that thin, but it could be thinner. Sal has mentioned the manufacturing challenges, and I suspect that plus concern about dealing with broken ones drove the thickness. I'm sure it was a thoughtful and wise decision by Spyderco. However, it would cut better if it were thinner behind the edge. (Again, taking it to 15 DPS may solve this problem.)
Lastly, if you have one, do yourself a favor and re-profile it. My edge from Spyderco was relatively obtuse (not literally, of course). It was in the 25 DPS range. I would take it to at least 18. 17 works well. I think 15 will be better.
Apologies for rambling. Hope this gave you some helpful info. I think this is a dramatically under-rated or ignored fixed blade that gets overlooked because of the steel name. I honestly believe if you gave this steel a cool new name people would rave about it.
EDIT: fixing some overly quit spell checker options.
Last edited by David R on Mon Oct 14, 2019 8:25 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Re: The Serrata - tell me about it
I have one and really like it. It's a great general purpose outdoors knife. I feel like it's definitely underrated and less recognized, and represents a really good value.
Re: The Serrata - tell me about it
Thanks Tom, and David! It's on my short list. In fact it's on top of the list right now. :) I love thick blades, and this one IS super beefy. Much value for the price. That's a ratio I like best.
Michael
48 Spydies, 44 different models, 43 different steels
.
Grail knife, still to be acquired: original Tuff by Ed Schempp Feel free to help me find one at a reasonable price...
48 Spydies, 44 different models, 43 different steels
.
Grail knife, still to be acquired: original Tuff by Ed Schempp Feel free to help me find one at a reasonable price...
Re: The Serrata - tell me about it
I'll be honest I'm a little bitter that this name wasn't used for something serrated
Otherwise I don't have one but I really like the design. I don't use fixed blades much but if I were in the market for one it would be in the running for sure.
Otherwise I don't have one but I really like the design. I don't use fixed blades much but if I were in the market for one it would be in the running for sure.
All SE all the time since 2017
~David
~David
Re: The Serrata - tell me about it
I was just disappointed that it wasn't used on a knife made in Italy.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serrata_d ... _Consiglio
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serrata_d ... _Consiglio
- Stuart Ackerman
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Re: The Serrata - tell me about it
David...Thanks for the info regarding your personal thoughts.
I have made thinner Serratas, and yes, thinner is better for slicing.
Evil D...not serrated you say?
The edge IS serrated, just with very very very small teeth... :D :p
I have made thinner Serratas, and yes, thinner is better for slicing.
Evil D...not serrated you say?
The edge IS serrated, just with very very very small teeth... :D :p
Re: The Serrata - tell me about it
Stuart Ackerman wrote: ↑Mon Oct 07, 2019 1:41 amEvil D...not serrated you say?
The edge IS serrated, just with very very very small teeth... :D :p
Don't laugh at me, but: can it be captured in a photograph, through a microscope? Have you tried? I'd love to see this.
Michael
48 Spydies, 44 different models, 43 different steels
.
Grail knife, still to be acquired: original Tuff by Ed Schempp Feel free to help me find one at a reasonable price...
48 Spydies, 44 different models, 43 different steels
.
Grail knife, still to be acquired: original Tuff by Ed Schempp Feel free to help me find one at a reasonable price...
- Stuart Ackerman
- Member
- Posts: 2084
- Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2004 2:39 pm
- Location: New Zealand
- Contact:
Re: The Serrata - tell me about it
Yes..
By using a electro confocal scanning microscope...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confocal_microscopy
I have a single image done for me by an owner of one of the first few Serratas.
I will find it.
By using a electro confocal scanning microscope...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confocal_microscopy
I have a single image done for me by an owner of one of the first few Serratas.
I will find it.
Re: The Serrata - tell me about it
Can't wait to see it. That's great Stuart!
Michael
48 Spydies, 44 different models, 43 different steels
.
Grail knife, still to be acquired: original Tuff by Ed Schempp Feel free to help me find one at a reasonable price...
48 Spydies, 44 different models, 43 different steels
.
Grail knife, still to be acquired: original Tuff by Ed Schempp Feel free to help me find one at a reasonable price...
Re: The Serrata - tell me about it
Thanx David for the great explanation. Thanx Stuart for creating the design. Not an easy design to do in production.
sal
sal
Re: The Serrata - tell me about it
Hmm.. this might have to be a future purchase.
- MichaelScott
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- Location: Southern Colorado
Re: The Serrata - tell me about it
If I was still living on our small mountain farm with all of the tasks that entailed, the Serrata would be my fixed blade choice. I would suggest, get one while you can.
Overheard at the end of the ice age, “We’ve been having such unnatural weather.”
http://acehotel.blog
Team Innovation
http://acehotel.blog
Team Innovation
Re: The Serrata - tell me about it
Stuart Ackerman wrote: ↑Mon Oct 07, 2019 12:41 pmYes..
By using a electro confocal scanning microscope...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confocal_microscopy
I have a single image done for me by an owner of one of the first few Serratas.
I will find it.
Hey Stuart, still digging?
Go towards the light! :D
Michael
48 Spydies, 44 different models, 43 different steels
.
Grail knife, still to be acquired: original Tuff by Ed Schempp Feel free to help me find one at a reasonable price...
48 Spydies, 44 different models, 43 different steels
.
Grail knife, still to be acquired: original Tuff by Ed Schempp Feel free to help me find one at a reasonable price...
- Stuart Ackerman
- Member
- Posts: 2084
- Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2004 2:39 pm
- Location: New Zealand
- Contact:
Re: The Serrata - tell me about it
I have 4 TB of hard drives to go through...
Sal has a copy of the image, but that would be hard work for him, too.
Sal has a copy of the image, but that would be hard work for him, too.
- MichaelScott
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- Joined: Mon Apr 13, 2015 11:42 am
- Location: Southern Colorado
Re: The Serrata - tell me about it
Stuart, didn’t someone post that here about the time the Serrata was released?
Overheard at the end of the ice age, “We’ve been having such unnatural weather.”
http://acehotel.blog
Team Innovation
http://acehotel.blog
Team Innovation
- Stuart Ackerman
- Member
- Posts: 2084
- Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2004 2:39 pm
- Location: New Zealand
- Contact:
Re: The Serrata - tell me about it
I did, but lost most of them when my image hoster got a little silly with payments...
I do have the image, but in amongst a lot of stuff...
I do have the image, but in amongst a lot of stuff...