Sharpening choils - Why?

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Gevatter
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Re: Sharpening choils - Why?

Postby Gevatter » Thu Mar 21, 2019 5:33 pm

Would a sharpening choil/notch create a weak spot on chopping knives?

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Woodpuppy
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Re: Sharpening choils - Why?

Postby Woodpuppy » Thu Mar 21, 2019 6:46 pm

A rounded one I’d think not. A notch with a point I’d think would serve as a stress riser.
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Re: Sharpening choils - Why?

Postby rabbitanarchy14 » Sat Mar 23, 2019 1:33 am

i have put a sharpening choil on my para 3 and lil native. the little native was a must because i sanded down the finger choil too to clear my finger when closing it. but they do look and work amazing with the sharpmaker. i have 0 issues with them using or sharpening but could not stand that junky J look or slight recurve there, not to mention the sharpmaker stones do not get close enough to sharpen all of the edge. and no it is not easier or cheaper to just go buy a different set of stones or sharpener like vivi suggests, it is easier however to take a 1/16 or slightly more sometimes off the blade to get rid of that nasty J and recurve not to mention NOT SPEND EXTRA MONEY.
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Re: Sharpening choils - Why?

Postby rabbitanarchy14 » Sat Mar 23, 2019 1:41 am

Deadboxhero wrote:
Thu Jan 03, 2019 6:13 pm
Image

Most knives come unsharpened next to the ricasso.

Image

It's a complete plateau.


Image


The top is a new factory edge pm2.

The bottom is heavily used and modified.

The choil was very helpful for maintaining the shape of the blade as it got smaller with lots of use and sharpening.
yes yes yes. that is exactly how i do it so i dont lose any sharpened edge like vivi is talking yet it is easier to sharpen. thank you someone who does what i have and agrees.
In-Possession - Para 3 S35VN, Para 3 G10 M390 Red, Dice XHP, Lil Native S30V BL, Manix 2 M390 BR, MKM Voxnaes Isonzo N690Co, Benchmade 555HGBlu, Ontario Rat 2 Gr G10
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Vivi
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Re: Sharpening choils - Why?

Postby Vivi » Sat Mar 23, 2019 11:58 am

But then materials can still get caught there. It strikes me as prioritizing aesthetics over function.

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Evil D
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Re: Sharpening choils - Why?

Postby Evil D » Sat Mar 23, 2019 12:14 pm

I think the next PE knife I purchase I'm shipping out to have one single large serration cut into the blade in the same spot. This way it will do the same job as a sharpening notch but will also be sharpened and will aid in cutting cord and such.
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Vivi
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Re: Sharpening choils - Why?

Postby Vivi » Sat Mar 23, 2019 12:38 pm

Evil D wrote:
Sat Mar 23, 2019 12:14 pm
I think the next PE knife I purchase I'm shipping out to have one single large serration cut into the blade in the same spot. This way it will do the same job as a sharpening notch but will also be sharpened and will aid in cutting cord and such.
That sounds much more sensible than an unsharpened notch. I'll be interested to see photos and read your impressions when you do.

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Re: Sharpening choils - Why?

Postby wrdwrght » Sat Mar 23, 2019 12:39 pm

Shower thought: a Spyderedge is a series of sharpening choils kept sharp.
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Re: Sharpening choils - Why?

Postby Deadboxhero » Sat Mar 23, 2019 1:49 pm

Vivi wrote:
Sat Mar 23, 2019 11:58 am
But then materials can still get caught there. It strikes me as prioritizing aesthetics over function.
Nah, the user controls the knife, who just jams materials against the ricasso before cutting?

The choil speeds up the sharpening and is less banging on the corners of the stone.

A proper choil doesn't take away cutting edge, removes the unsharpened plateau and prevents a recurve from forming over time.
Last edited by Deadboxhero on Sat Mar 23, 2019 1:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Vivi
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Re: Sharpening choils - Why?

Postby Vivi » Sat Mar 23, 2019 1:51 pm

Sharpening choils always take away from potential edge. Just because some prudction knives aren't sharpened all the way back, doesn't mean they can't be.

Sometimes cutting can be unpredictable. Controlled edge holding tests is one thing, slicing rope when it's dark and cold is another.

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Re: Sharpening choils - Why?

Postby Pelagic » Sat Mar 23, 2019 2:12 pm

Vivi wrote:
Sat Mar 23, 2019 1:51 pm
Sharpening choils always take away from potential edge. Just because some prudction knives aren't sharpened all the way back, doesn't mean they can't be.

Sometimes cutting can be unpredictable. Controlled edge holding tests is one thing, slicing rope when it's dark and cold is another.
Well said. I'd love to live in a world where everything went as planned.
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Re: Sharpening choils - Why?

Postby Pelagic » Sat Mar 23, 2019 2:15 pm

Deadboxhero wrote:
Sat Mar 23, 2019 1:49 pm
Vivi wrote:
Sat Mar 23, 2019 11:58 am
But then materials can still get caught there. It strikes me as prioritizing aesthetics over function.
Nah, the user controls the knife, who just jams materials against the ricasso before cutting?

The choil speeds up the sharpening and is less banging on the corners of the stone.

A proper choil doesn't take away cutting edge, removes the unsharpened plateau and prevents a recurve from forming over time.
Given I've only owned about a dozen spydies so far, I must have lucked out. They've always been sharpened all the way to the ricasso. I was actually surprised to see the picture you posted of unsharpened edge. Shows how much of a spydie noob I am. :p
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Are you a magician? :eek:
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Deadboxhero
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Re: Sharpening choils - Why?

Postby Deadboxhero » Sat Mar 23, 2019 2:22 pm

Vivi wrote:
Sat Mar 23, 2019 1:51 pm
Sharpening choils always take away from potential edge. Just because some prudction knives aren't sharpened all the way back, doesn't mean they can't be.

Sometimes cutting can be unpredictable. Controlled edge holding tests is one thing, slicing rope when it's dark and cold is another.
I never said that it couldn't be done. I'm saying it's more efficient for sharpening to have a proper choil with the knives that have that giant ricasso. I guarantee it's faster.




Sometimes sharpening can be unpredictable. Controlled heel sharpening against the ricasso is one thing, sharpening in the "dark and cold" is another. :p

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Re: Sharpening choils - Why?

Postby kodai78 » Sat Mar 23, 2019 2:45 pm

The choil cut in the Smock by Alistair Phillips was 3 mm. That’s not much edge to lose really. In terms of aesthetics I am indifferent to a sharpening choil but I am all in on things that make sharpening easier. I think the choil falls into that category.
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Re: Sharpening choils - Why?

Postby bbturbodad » Fri Jul 12, 2019 6:25 pm

Evil D wrote:
Sat Mar 23, 2019 12:14 pm
I think the next PE knife I purchase I'm shipping out to have one single large serration cut into the blade in the same spot. This way it will do the same job as a sharpening notch but will also be sharpened and will aid in cutting cord and such.

Sounded like a good idea to me, so I gave it go last night. Not the cleanest job but it is functional.

Image
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Re: Sharpening choils - Why?

Postby Evil D » Fri Jul 12, 2019 8:16 pm

bbturbodad wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 6:25 pm
Evil D wrote:
Sat Mar 23, 2019 12:14 pm
I think the next PE knife I purchase I'm shipping out to have one single large serration cut into the blade in the same spot. This way it will do the same job as a sharpening notch but will also be sharpened and will aid in cutting cord and such.

Sounded like a good idea to me, so I gave it go last night. Not the cleanest job but it is functional.

Image

I'd probably go a bit bigger myself, big enough for one strand of 550 cord to fit into but that's better than a dull scoop.
SHARPEN IT LIKE YOU LOVE IT, USE IT LIKE YOU HATE IT
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Re: Sharpening choils - Why?

Postby DirtMcGirt » Wed Jul 31, 2019 2:13 pm

Evil D wrote:
Thu Jan 03, 2019 6:59 am
This is why I propose they instead start adding one single large serration at the heel of the blade. This will achieve the same results as a sharpening notch for those who want it, but also prevent things from snagging since it's still an edge. No edge length is lost (technically you gain a small amount) and you have a nice notch for cutting cord.

I know, old post. But I was reminded of it while browsing Cabela’s, and saw this new line of Cabela’s branded knifes called the expedition series.
https://www.cabelas.com/product/CABELAS ... s?slotId=2
Image

Probably bigger than you are talking, but it seems they took your idea and ran with it.
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Evil D
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Re: Sharpening choils - Why?

Postby Evil D » Wed Jul 31, 2019 2:48 pm

DirtMcGirt wrote:
Wed Jul 31, 2019 2:13 pm
Evil D wrote:
Thu Jan 03, 2019 6:59 am
This is why I propose they instead start adding one single large serration at the heel of the blade. This will achieve the same results as a sharpening notch for those who want it, but also prevent things from snagging since it's still an edge. No edge length is lost (technically you gain a small amount) and you have a nice notch for cutting cord.

I know, old post. But I was reminded of it while browsing Cabela’s, and saw this new line of Cabela’s branded knifes called the expedition series.
https://www.cabelas.com/product/CABELAS ... s?slotId=2
Image

Probably bigger than you are talking, but it seems they took your idea and ran with it.



Yep same concept. That looks more like a Veff style serration but it should have the same effect.
SHARPEN IT LIKE YOU LOVE IT, USE IT LIKE YOU HATE IT
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Re: Sharpening choils - Why?

Postby Surfingringo » Wed Jul 31, 2019 4:55 pm

I have a strong dislike for sharpening choils. I feel like they add no functionality and actually create performance deficiencies. Any knife with a sharpening choil is pretty much a non starter for me.

I don’t like the blunted tip on the pacific salt but I have never complained about spyderco making it that way. I get it. Some people like the fat tip, some don’t. The thing is, it’s super easy to grind the extra steel off and make the fat tip pointy. If it came pointy like I like it then it would be impossible to add metal to it and half the market would be SOL. Point is, the sharpening choil is the same scenario. If you like sharpening choils, they are MUCH quicker and easier to make than grinding down a spine. It’s cool to like them and I’m sure most folks respect whatever the reasons are, but rather than asking for something that will push away half the buyers, why not just buy a $5 file and take 5 minutes to cut one? I dunno, that’s just my rant on “as Lance sees it”. :p

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Re: Sharpening choils - Why?

Postby Surfingringo » Wed Jul 31, 2019 4:57 pm

DirtMcGirt wrote:
Wed Jul 31, 2019 2:13 pm
Evil D wrote:
Thu Jan 03, 2019 6:59 am
This is why I propose they instead start adding one single large serration at the heel of the blade. This will achieve the same results as a sharpening notch for those who want it, but also prevent things from snagging since it's still an edge. No edge length is lost (technically you gain a small amount) and you have a nice notch for cutting cord.

I know, old post. But I was reminded of it while browsing Cabela’s, and saw this new line of Cabela’s branded knifes called the expedition series.
https://www.cabelas.com/product/CABELAS ... s?slotId=2
Image

Probably bigger than you are talking, but it seems they took your idea and ran with it.
As much as I abhor sharpening choils, I find something like this kind of interesting as I could at least imagine it having a functional use.


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