Lightweight EDC fixed blade idea

[Tims]

Who would be keen to see a regular production EDC fixed blade based on the well known Mule pattern?

Frn handle Jumpmaster/Enuff style.
Vg10, bd1n? Potential Salt version in LC or H1, PE & SE
Boltaron Sheath.
Exact same Mule pattern so compatible with existing aftermarket scales

Most of the hard work has been done in the Mule, it only needs frn scales.

What would you call it? Mule 2?

[The Deacon]

The average price for the Mules, without scales or sheath, has been around $70 to $75 and that's been on direct sales, so is probably closer to wholesale than MAP. Bolatron sheath is $30. FRN scales would require expensive tooling and would probably cost at least $25. IMHO, the Bow River is a much better looking knife, a more practical design, and will have a US Street price under $35 when it becomes available. For something with better steel, I'd go with the Moran Drop Point in VG10 for about $110 which is still cheaper than Mule + sheath + scales.

[Tims]

Those are all very different knives. I edited my original post to remove “affordable” as that’s not really the focus of the knife

[Doc Dan]

The average price for the Mules, without scales or sheath, has been around $70 to $75 and that's been on direct sales, so is probably closer to wholesale than MAP. Bolatron sheath is $30. FRN scales would require expensive tooling and would probably cost at least $25. IMHO, the Bow River is a much better looking knife, a more practical design, and will have a US Street price under $35 when it becomes available. For something with better steel, I'd go with the Moran Drop Point in VG10 for about $110 which is still cheaper than Mule + sheath + scales.

Good values, so I like your list. I would also rather have a Waterway or Aqua Salt than a Mule shaped blade.

[standy99]

Have a few mules so no need for me....

[Evil D]

I just want an ARK with a wharnie blade. I don't think I could handle having something as big as a Mule hanging around my neck unless I was camping or something.

[TomAiello]

If you made it in a mid range steel, it would be in competition with the Moran, Enuff, Ka-Bar Snody Boss (retail around $110), etc. That's a fairly crowded space.

If you made it in a lower end steel it would have to compete with the Bow River (and a profusion of cheap Moras, which are almost impossible to beat for value)

What if you made it in a high end steel? What's the competition there? Original mules of course, but what else?

I'm trying to think of when I'd carry this in preference to something else I have. I like the Mules because I can rotate steel and keep the scales and sheath, and try out new stuff. Not sure if I'd ever really use a Mule pattern FB that didn't give me that option.

[Tims]

I can see this knife being redundant to those who already own Mules. I thought I read the Mules were being discoed? This would be a way to keep the pattern alive. In 2 years when the only Mules you can get are on Ebay for $300, it would be nice to have a regular production option.
Competition doesn’t seem like much of a hurdle when you consider just about every new knife is competing with others in it’s class.
It’s 2019. Name a knife class that doesn’t have dozens of competing knives, yet they sell because they are different enough.
In reality, EDC fixed blades are one of the most underrepresented classes for Spyderco.

[Ez556]

I just want an ARK with a wharnie blade. I don't think I could handle having something as big as a Mule hanging around my neck unless I was camping or something.

YES! Yes. This would be great. Yes. I’d love to see a Wharncliffe ARK, especially in something like BD1/BD1N or LC200N to keep it “salt”. I missed out on the Swick line, so a Wharncliffe ARK would certainly ride with me daily if it came about.

[Tims]

A wharnie ARK would be a cool little blade

[Evil D]

I just want an ARK with a wharnie blade. I don't think I could handle having something as big as a Mule hanging around my neck unless I was camping or something.

YES! Yes. This would be great. Yes. I’d love to see a Wharncliffe ARK, especially in something like BD1/BD1N or LC200N to keep it “salt”. I missed out on the Swick line, so a Wharncliffe ARK would certainly ride with me daily if it came about.

I'd buy a LC200N SE wharnie ARK right now. I'd find a use for it.

[vivi]

I just want an ARK with a wharnie blade. I don't think I could handle having something as big as a Mule hanging around my neck unless I was camping or something.

YES! Yes. This would be great. Yes. I’d love to see a Wharncliffe ARK, especially in something like BD1/BD1N or LC200N to keep it “salt”. I missed out on the Swick line, so a Wharncliffe ARK would certainly ride with me daily if it came about.

I'd buy a LC200N SE wharnie ARK right now. I'd find a use for it.

I have one :D

The Ark was mixed feelings at first sight.

I've wanted a tiny, FRN/H1 fixed blade to EDC for years. They're my favorite materials to have in a knife design. The Ark answered that wish.

However, it wasn't quite perfect. The generous belly just didn't work for me with such a small cutting edge. Things I tried to cut would slip right off the curved tip.

I've had an image in my mind for months now. An image of how the Ark could look if I ground it to a straight edge.

In addition to re-shaping the edge, I also wanted to eliminate the hump over the spyder hole. That hump is exactly where my thumb wants to go when I use my Ark, so I knew from day one I'd eventually grind it off.

Tonight I finally got around to finishing the mod I've had in mind for months.

I present to you the Spyderco Ark, re-imagined as a modified wharncliffe, or, an "Arkidashi"



For reference, here is a stock Ark:



My mod retains the same amount of cutting edge while utilizing a blade shape that offers superior control. The original reason I purchased an Ark was for an ultralight backpacking / biketouring knife, and not only does this mod lighten the knife, but it makes it perform better when doing camp food prep on a cutting board.







My "Arkidashi" is working great so far. Slicing cardboard I'm not seeing it slip off the tip as often. Using a pinch grip on a cutting board I still have enough clearance to slice food with the straight edge portion of the blade. It's much more efficient dicing an onion, for example, compared to when it had a lot of belly. With the new blade shape, more of the edge can contact the cutting board.



So who else is interested in an H1 wharncliffe fixed blade sized for EDC? Something in between the Ark and Enuff in size / weight? Maybe breed the Street Beat lightweight with the Ronin 2?

I think the Perrin / Janich collaboration in H1/LC200N with thin G10 scales, or something close to it, would make the perfect fixed blade EDC to compliment a folder with belly...



I think wharncliffes and small blades go together like meat and potatoes. Blade shapes with belly that are under 2" long are often difficult to control in comparison.

I'm thinking about buying a SE and keeping the same blade shape but doing the spyderhole delete mod. I need to get around to ordering some kydex and making better sheaths too.

[Ez556]

:eek: That Janich/Perrin collab pictured is EXACTLY what I’d imagine a Wharncliffe ARK would look like! Or at least the ideal knife I’d buy!! Either skeleton or thin scales like what’s on the ARK now in LC200N or BD1N :D oooooh that would be sweet!

[Ez556]

At that point I’m not sure if it’d be an ARK Wharncliffe or a Lil’ Ronin.

[hambone56rx]

I just want an ARK with a wharnie blade. I don't think I could handle having something as big as a Mule hanging around my neck unless I was camping or something.

YES!!! I was actually thinking of a drop point blade with micarta. To mimic this knife:

https://www.whiteriverknives.com/collec ... s/m1-caper

I love the feel of this knife, so I just need Spyderco to mimic it! I was thinking that the Ark is pretty close to this, but we need a different blade shape. And I'd like the micarta scares!

Hamilton

[spyderwolf]

Yes.We had this discussion and we even came up with the name.The Moderation.

[spyderwolf]

The average price for the Mules, without scales or sheath, has been around $70 to $75 and that's been on direct sales, so is probably closer to wholesale than MAP. Bolatron sheath is $30. FRN scales would require expensive tooling and would probably cost at least $25. IMHO, the Bow River is a much better looking knife, a more practical design, and will have a US Street price under $35 when it becomes available. For something with better steel, I'd go with the Moran Drop Point in VG10 for about $110 which is still cheaper than Mule + sheath + scales.

If and when the Bow River will apear, it will be a completely different flavour,and a production Mule made from cheap steel,with scales and sheath,at around 50$ will kill it.

[spyderwolf]

I can see this knife being redundant to those who already own Mules. I thought I read the Mules were being discoed? This would be a way to keep the pattern alive. In 2 years when the only Mules you can get are on Ebay for $300, it would be nice to have a regular production option.
Competition doesn’t seem like much of a hurdle when you consider just about every new knife is competing with others in it’s class.
It’s 2019. Name a knife class that doesn’t have dozens of competing knives, yet they sell because they are different enough.
In reality, EDC fixed blades are one of the most underrepresented classes for Spyderco.

The Mules are already well over 300$,if you take into consideration the costs of scales and sheath.

[Tims]

I can see this knife being redundant to those who already own Mules. I thought I read the Mules were being discoed? This would be a way to keep the pattern alive. In 2 years when the only Mules you can get are on Ebay for $300, it would be nice to have a regular production option.
Competition doesn’t seem like much of a hurdle when you consider just about every new knife is competing with others in it’s class.
It’s 2019. Name a knife class that doesn’t have dozens of competing knives, yet they sell because they are different enough.
In reality, EDC fixed blades are one of the most underrepresented classes for Spyderco.

The Mules are already well over 300$,if you take into consideration the costs of scales and sheath.

True. How much do you think a regular production lightweight frn version in say, vg10 would run? Considering an Enuff runs about $120. Much less than $300

[The Deacon]

If and when the Bow River will apear, it will be a completely different flavour,and a production Mule made from cheap steel,with scales and sheath,at around 50$ will kill it.

Which was exactly my point. Bow River will be an elegant looking knife, Mules look like mules.

As for cost. The least expensive Mule was MT05 in 9Cr18Mo. It sold for $20 ten years ago via direct sale, which is closer to wholesale than MAP. Like everything else, it would cost more today, so I suspect MAP price would be in the $35-$40 range for just the Mule. Sheath is currently $30 direct, so say $35 MAP. Scales would have to be priced to recoup the sizeable investment in the molds as well as all the other normal expenses and markups, so say $15 minimum MAP. That's already way more than the Bow River.

The Mules are already well over 300$,if you take into consideration the costs of scales and sheath.

And yet you can still get MT20 from Spyderco for $80 or the MT22 or MT27 for $70. Add $30 for the sheath and $45 for the G-10 scales and you'd be looking at $145 or S155, total, at least here in the USA.