Stropping

Discuss Spyderco's products and history.
User avatar
TkoK83Spy
Member
Posts: 12446
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2018 5:32 pm
Location: Syracuse, NY

Stropping

#1

Post by TkoK83Spy »

So I just bought my first ever leather stropping board from KnivesPlus. I watched a few different videos and read up a bit and can't figure out if I should be using very light pressure when pulling back, light like the finishing touches on the Sharpmaker. Bascially the weight of the knife itself..or if I'm supposed to use a bit of pressure. What way is most successful for you guys?

I plan on using it after work today and just wanted to see what techniques some of you sharpening whizz's use!
15 :bug-red 's in 10 different steels
1 - Bradford Guardian 3 / Vanadis 4E Wharnie
1 - Monterey Bay Knives Slayback Flipper / ZDP 189
1 - CRK Small Sebenza 31/Macassar Ebony Inlays
1 - CRK Large Inkosi Insingo/ Black Micarta Inlays
1 - CRK Small Sebenza 31 Insingo/Magnacut

-Rick
User avatar
p_atrick
Member
Posts: 1536
Joined: Fri Jun 16, 2017 5:35 pm
Location: Boston Area

Re: Stropping

#2

Post by p_atrick »

From Deadbox Hero's YT page:
https://youtu.be/Oy4BgZUdsqI
User avatar
bearfacedkiller
Member
Posts: 11411
Joined: Sat Jan 04, 2014 1:22 pm
Location: hiding in the woods...

Re: Stropping

#3

Post by bearfacedkiller »

The leather will compress if you push hard and you run the risk of rounding the edge over. With a light touch I like to match the edge angle and when pressing harder I lower the angle a little. The latter is more for when I am stropping convex edges like on my kitchen knives or other fixed blades and I want the backing to compress a little because the edge is convex shaped. After that I still always finish with a few passes with light pressure.

Rounding the apex off is the main thing to avoid when stropping so just keep that in mind.
-Darby
sal wrote:Knife afi's are pretty far out, steel junky's more so, but "edge junky's" are just nuts. :p
SpyderEdgeForever wrote: Also, do you think a kangaroo would eat a bowl of spagetti with sauce if someone offered it to them?
Genotoxic
Member
Posts: 94
Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2018 11:04 pm

Re: Stropping

#4

Post by Genotoxic »

I use like a medium light pressure, I find just the weight of the knife doesn't do anything so I'll just put a slight bit more force... you can feel by hand, no pressure the knife feels like its gliding along the top of the strop. With a bit of pressure you can feel some friction between the edge and the strop and that tells me its working

Like anything else though you'll learn and get better with practice. Luckily it's hard to really mess up an edge on the strop so dont overthink it.
User avatar
kwakster
Member
Posts: 489
Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2005 2:52 am
Location: Apeldoorn, The Netherlands

Re: Stropping

#5

Post by kwakster »

This type of strop is what i sometimes make & give to people who regularly bring me a CRK or other quality (Chef-) knife for sharpening and/or some TLC, so they can maintain & keep the appearance of their new edge themselves for some time.
Even a few professional Chefs in my area with expensive gyuto's and santoku's in modern PM steel types are using these same strops with good results, so they keep telling me anyway.
I use them myself as well, and they are easy to make.

It's a new & cut-to-size piece of clean MDF coated with a thin layer of 1.0 micron (+/- 14000 grit) mono-diamond compound, and i put 4 self-adhesive rubber bumpers on the bottom.
These bumpers make the strop non-slip plus they elevate the working surface a bit more which makes the strop more convenient to use on a table (more room for your hands)
Due to the harder surface the chances of rounding your crisp apex are also greatly diminished when compared to stropping on compressible materials like leather.
The strop surface can also be cleaned from time to time with a microfiber cloth and some acetone, which will remove all or most of the swarf without removing the diamond particles, as these become (partially) embedded in the MDF surface during the stropping proces.

But this is (literally) the key element: the placement on rubber bumpers also provides the strop user with acoustic feedback by isolating the MDF from the table (a bit like the bars on a xylophone); you can actually hear when you're arriving at the very apex during stropping movements as the audible sound changes, which makes the stropping proces very easy, even for absolute beginners.

The CRK Nyala used as a prop for the pictures was reprofiled (from 35-40 degrees inclusive to an even 30 degrees inclusive) & sharpened (with 15 micron diamond compound on a Paper Wheel).
The owner only uses this quite expensive knife to cut oranges, about 5 each day, i kid you not, :D

ImageImage

ImageImageImage
JD Spydo
Member
Posts: 23532
Joined: Tue Sep 28, 2004 7:53 pm
Location: Blue Springs, Missouri

Re: Stropping

#6

Post by JD Spydo »

Most Barbers I've seen use a Straight Razor and Strop do it differently than most guys I've seen use Strops to put a final edge on a knife. Barbers seem to just skim over the surface of the strop in a skewing motion with a relatively light pressure. They don't use a lot of pressure on the leather itself. Now that's not to say that stropping a knife might not be the same. But as thin as some edges are the danger of rolling the edge over on a knife edge would be easy if you were not careful.

In the past year I've been using my Spyderco Ultra-Fine 302 Benchstone and use light strokes on it for my stropping and that method is one I've had great luck with.
User avatar
Pancake
Member
Posts: 1146
Joined: Sat Jun 01, 2019 4:52 am

Re: Stropping

#7

Post by Pancake »

I have been using ,,traditional“ strops with leather (very hard leather) and I am still using them for my kitchen knives (made from simple carbon/tool steel) and it works good.

But for other knives I am using just a nice piece of wood with smooth surface and I apply diamond paste on top. I can get nicer edges of wooden strops.
In the pocket: Chaparral FRN, Native Chief, Police 4 K390, Pacific Salt SE, Manix 2 G10 REX45
User avatar
bbturbodad
Member
Posts: 1180
Joined: Sun Mar 24, 2019 9:18 am

Re: Stropping

#8

Post by bbturbodad »

I use what I would describe as light to medium pressure and angle the blade at a slightly more acute angle than sharpened to keep the apex from rounding. Usually a few strokes is all it takes. You can always do more strokes if you need, too many and you need to go back to your finishing stone so better to error on the side of not enough IMHO.

I like to hold the strop at a 45ish degree angle, match the bevel angle, lay it down a hair, make a few passes and then check the edge for "stickyness" with my fingers.

I remember the first time I stropped a kitchen knife...couldn't believe what a difference it made!

Good luck and let us know how it goes.
-Turbo
vivi
Member
Posts: 13846
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2007 8:15 am

Re: Stropping

#9

Post by vivi »

light pressure, and never strop an edge that doesn't already smoothly shave.
:unicorn
User avatar
Pelagic
Member
Posts: 2440
Joined: Fri Apr 27, 2018 5:49 pm
Location: East Coast/Nomadic

Re: Stropping

#10

Post by Pelagic »

Try to get it as sharp as possible before stropping. The cake with the best icing is rarely the best cake.

Light pressure on leather. On wood more pressure doesn't hurt so much.

Keep your desired edge finish in mind. Stropping too much will remove your micro-serrations on the edge (not good for slicing but good for push cutting).
Pancake wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:20 pm
Are you a magician? :eek:
Nate wrote:
Thu Apr 04, 2019 4:32 pm
You're the lone wolf of truth howling into the winds of ignorance
Doeswhateveraspidercan wrote:
Sat Jun 15, 2019 9:17 pm
You are a nobody got it?
User avatar
Wartstein
Member
Posts: 15041
Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2018 10:06 am
Location: Salzburg, Austria, Europe

Re: Stropping

#11

Post by Wartstein »

Vivi wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 11:12 am
....and never strop an edge that doesn't already smoothly shave.
I always strop my edges just when they are shaving sharp already. But, to be honest, just cause stropping is the last step in my sharpening process anyway.

So what would happen if one stropped a not shaving sharp edge? Would it just not do anything for sharpening, or would it be literally detrimental for the edge?
Top three going by pocket-time (update March 24):
- EDC: Endura thin red line ffg combo edge (VG10); Wayne Goddard PE (4V), Endela SE (VG10)
-Mountains/outdoors: Pac.Salt 1 SE (H1), Salt 2 SE (LC200N), and also Wayne Goddard PE (4V)
User avatar
TkoK83Spy
Member
Posts: 12446
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2018 5:32 pm
Location: Syracuse, NY

Re: Stropping

#12

Post by TkoK83Spy »

Thanks for those additional notes about not stropping smoothly shaving edges and about stropping too much. Most of my knives are used for slicing over push cutting. Will definitely keep that in mind. I also held the block at around a 45 degree angle and that seemed to work nicely as well.

My Smock, UKPK (Both S30V) were rough/scrape shaving prior to stropping. 5 passes in each side and the hair was popping off no problem. Amazing the difference this thing can make even after using the UF stones. Very impressive, wish I got into this sooner!

I then did the same with my AEB-L Urban, which was also scrape shaving...but ended up making it more dull haha. Must have overdone it with pressure, wrong angle, too many passes. Went back to a few swipes with the Fine and UF stones and got back to sticky sharp. 3 passes for each side and hair was popping off for that knife too! Seems like a great buy for only $25.
15 :bug-red 's in 10 different steels
1 - Bradford Guardian 3 / Vanadis 4E Wharnie
1 - Monterey Bay Knives Slayback Flipper / ZDP 189
1 - CRK Small Sebenza 31/Macassar Ebony Inlays
1 - CRK Large Inkosi Insingo/ Black Micarta Inlays
1 - CRK Small Sebenza 31 Insingo/Magnacut

-Rick
cycleguy
Member
Posts: 1487
Joined: Tue Aug 28, 2018 4:46 pm
Location: Arvada, coloRADo

Re: Stropping

#13

Post by cycleguy »

OK stupid guy question here, but I am going to ask it anyway!!!!

What is the grit level of raw leather ... for both smooth leather and course leather???

I see compounds offered for strops that have ranged from 3K grit to 32K grit. I have tried leather strops raw and with 5K grit compound and found I can enhance as well as diminish with stropping.... regardless if raw or with compound.

I have a Case Moon Stone (I fully suspect it must be a genuine stone from the moon that has unobtainable qualities by anything here on earth but seems much like a fine ceramic stone). I do quick touch-ups with it and find the results impressive.

I hesitate to proceed to the strop so I may be falling to the side that isn't big on stropping.

CG
So many knives - so little funds!!!
JD Spydo
Member
Posts: 23532
Joined: Tue Sep 28, 2004 7:53 pm
Location: Blue Springs, Missouri

Re: Stropping

#14

Post by JD Spydo »

cycleguy wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 12:37 pm
OK stupid guy question here, but I am going to ask it anyway!!!!

What is the grit level of raw leather ... for both smooth leather and course leather???

I see compounds offered for strops that have ranged from 3K grit to 32K grit. I have tried leather strops raw and with 5K grit compound and found I can enhance as well as diminish with stropping.... regardless if raw or with compound.

I have a Case Moon Stone (I fully suspect it must be a genuine stone from the moon that has unobtainable qualities by anything here on earth but seems much like a fine ceramic stone). I do quick touch-ups with it and find the results impressive.
You're the first guy I've run across in years that has one of those CASE Moon Stones. I'm certain that it was one of the earliest ceramic stones available. Because after I bought mine I"ve maybe talked to one or two others who also had one of those. I found the CASE Moon Stone to be quite a unique type of sharpening stone. I'm interested to know where you got yours and when. I got mine in the mid 80s and haven't even seen one for sale since the late 80s. I doubt if CASE made it so I'm curious as to what company made it for CASE?

The main reason I raise that question is that for the past year I've been experimenting using the finest and hardest stones to do my stropping with and I've had some really interesting results. And that CASE Moon Stone is a very hard ceramic stone IMO.
User avatar
Pelagic
Member
Posts: 2440
Joined: Fri Apr 27, 2018 5:49 pm
Location: East Coast/Nomadic

Re: Stropping

#15

Post by Pelagic »

Bare leather will vary. Most likely some are rough and maybe 100k grit while others may behave like 10 million or more.

Warstein, it is possible to sharpen a knife with only a strop (MUCH easier on wood and with highly concentrated compound) but the more you strop the more you fatigue/jeopardize the integrity of the apex. Minimum stropping is best for a healthy edge.
Pancake wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:20 pm
Are you a magician? :eek:
Nate wrote:
Thu Apr 04, 2019 4:32 pm
You're the lone wolf of truth howling into the winds of ignorance
Doeswhateveraspidercan wrote:
Sat Jun 15, 2019 9:17 pm
You are a nobody got it?
JD Spydo
Member
Posts: 23532
Joined: Tue Sep 28, 2004 7:53 pm
Location: Blue Springs, Missouri

Re: Stropping

#16

Post by JD Spydo »

Pelagic wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 1:31 pm
Bare leather will vary. Most likely some are rough and maybe 100k grit while others may behave like 10 million or more.

Warstein, it is possible to sharpen a knife with only a strop (MUCH easier on wood and with highly concentrated compound) but the more you strop the more you fatigue/jeopardize the integrity of the apex. Minimum stropping is best for a healthy edge.
When mentioning wood for a strop material I've talked to two guys on a straight razor Forum who had used "Balsa Wood" as a strop material with good results.

With all the new synthetic materials available I'm wondering if there isn't some materials that would be superior to conventional leather. Now I do have a strop that I got from a Barber supply house about 10 or so years ago. It is made with Russian Boar hide and I've always loved the results I get from that strop.

I also have a type of strop I got from the Garrett Wade company that has leather on both sides of a wooden paddle>> it also has hollowed out sections in the main part which makes it cave in when stropping. I've had interesting results with that set up.

I've kind of wondered why Spyderco hasn't come out with a strop of their own????
vivi
Member
Posts: 13846
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2007 8:15 am

Re: Stropping

#17

Post by vivi »

TkoK83Spy wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 11:53 am
Thanks for those additional notes about not stropping smoothly shaving edges and about stropping too much. Most of my knives are used for slicing over push cutting. Will definitely keep that in mind. I also held the block at around a 45 degree angle and that seemed to work nicely as well.

My Smock, UKPK (Both S30V) were rough/scrape shaving prior to stropping. 5 passes in each side and the hair was popping off no problem. Amazing the difference this thing can make even after using the UF stones. Very impressive, wish I got into this sooner!

I then did the same with my AEB-L Urban, which was also scrape shaving...but ended up making it more dull haha. Must have overdone it with pressure, wrong angle, too many passes. Went back to a few swipes with the Fine and UF stones and got back to sticky sharp. 3 passes for each side and hair was popping off for that knife too! Seems like a great buy for only $25.
You should have the edge hair popping sharp before moving from fine to ultrafine IMO.
:unicorn
vivi
Member
Posts: 13846
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2007 8:15 am

Re: Stropping

#18

Post by vivi »

Wartstein wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 11:41 am
Vivi wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 11:12 am
....and never strop an edge that doesn't already smoothly shave.
I always strop my edges just when they are shaving sharp already. But, to be honest, just cause stropping is the last step in my sharpening process anyway.

So what would happen if one stropped a not shaving sharp edge? Would it just not do anything for sharpening, or would it be literally detrimental for the edge?
Bench stones produce a more uniform apex that strops do. They also do a better job of leaving microserrations that aid in slicing. Stropping is more likely to cause a rounded apex, and the smoother edge won't bite into materials as well during a slicing motion.

This is why I tell people not to rely on strops or high grit progressions to achieve high degrees of sharpness.

It's possible to get hair popping sharp edges using any of the sharpmaker stones and no strop. Even the diamond and CBN rods. Definitely the mediums, those are pretty high grit.

Polished edges have their place, but a lot of folks would be better served with a toothier edge for their EDC.

Get your edge to where it smoothly shaves off the mediums, strop it gently only once per side, then try out that edge. It will push cut through things just fine, but will have vastly superior slicing aggression.
:unicorn
User avatar
TkoK83Spy
Member
Posts: 12446
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2018 5:32 pm
Location: Syracuse, NY

Re: Stropping

#19

Post by TkoK83Spy »

Hmmm, so well noted in my warehouse environment for work and most of my knives usage...you think I'd be better off trying not to strop on those particular knives?
I'm definitely more of a slicer than push cutter, other than thick rope or plastic strapping.

Really appreciate all your help along the way these past couple years Vivi.
15 :bug-red 's in 10 different steels
1 - Bradford Guardian 3 / Vanadis 4E Wharnie
1 - Monterey Bay Knives Slayback Flipper / ZDP 189
1 - CRK Small Sebenza 31/Macassar Ebony Inlays
1 - CRK Large Inkosi Insingo/ Black Micarta Inlays
1 - CRK Small Sebenza 31 Insingo/Magnacut

-Rick
User avatar
Wartstein
Member
Posts: 15041
Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2018 10:06 am
Location: Salzburg, Austria, Europe

Re: Stropping

#20

Post by Wartstein »

Vivi wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 8:29 pm
Wartstein wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 11:41 am
Vivi wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 11:12 am
Pelagic wrote:
Warstein, it is possible to sharpen a knife with only a strop (MUCH easier on wood and with highly concentrated compound) but the more you strop the more you fatigue/jeopardize the integrity of the apex. Minimum stropping is best for a healthy edge.
Bench stones produce a more uniform apex that strops do. They also do a better job of leaving microserrations that aid in slicing. Stropping is more likely to cause a rounded apex, and the smoother edge won't bite into materials as well during a slicing motion.

This is why I tell people not to rely on strops or high grit progressions to achieve high degrees of sharpness.

It's possible to get hair popping sharp edges using any of the sharpmaker stones and no strop. Even the diamond and CBN rods. Definitely the mediums, those are pretty high grit.

Polished edges have their place, but a lot of folks would be better served with a toothier edge for their EDC.

Get your edge to where it smoothly shaves off the mediums, strop it gently only once per side, then try out that edge. It will push cut through things just fine, but will have vastly superior slicing aggression.
Vivi and Pelagic, thanks for your replies!

As said before, I can get all of my knives sharp enough, but I am not advanced enough to differentiate between polished and toothy edges to be honest.
So I´ll try out a "toothier" edge next time by doing the hole sharpening process just on the brown rods, that should do it, right? At least it should leave the edge toothier than by finishing on the fine rods and my strop.

But, question to both of you: Is it a bad thing necessarely rounding the apex by repeated stropping? Wouldn´t that be quite the same as convexing the knife, a kind of edge many people seem to believe is the best overall type anyway?
Top three going by pocket-time (update March 24):
- EDC: Endura thin red line ffg combo edge (VG10); Wayne Goddard PE (4V), Endela SE (VG10)
-Mountains/outdoors: Pac.Salt 1 SE (H1), Salt 2 SE (LC200N), and also Wayne Goddard PE (4V)
Post Reply