DA & NYC Throw Hail Mary Mootness Argument in Knife Rights' SCOTUS Case

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critter
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DA & NYC Throw Hail Mary Mootness Argument in Knife Rights' SCOTUS Case

Postby critter » Wed Jun 12, 2019 4:51 pm


In a counter to Plaintiff's responsive brief to their mootness letter, New York City and DA Vance have hurled a Hail Mary brief at SCOTUS in an effort to defend their mootness claim. It would appear to fail on all accounts.


They claim we did not challenge the MTA regulations in the original or amended complaint. However, that fails because we did challenge the definition of a gravity knife on which any enforcement would necessarily be based and which is the essence of the case.

They claim that the New York Police Department has abandoned the wrist flick test since the repeal, but they present no evidence that is true. More importantly, that claim is irrelevant because a case cannot be mooted simply because a party voluntarily ceases doing something, since they could just resume doing it, should they choose to. There is a specific exception to mootness for mere voluntary cessation.

Finally, they claim that the fear of prosecution over past actions is unfounded speculation, however that is inconsistent with the DA's past conduct. Further, the fact that they might bring such a prosecution, as they have in the past, is enough to keep the case alive.

The Supreme Court is scheduled to take up the petition in conference tomorrow, the 13th. At that time they will decide to take the case, decline the case, or put off a decision. It will be Monday, June 17, before they post the results of the conference.

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Re: DA & NYC Throw Hail Mary Mootness Argument in Knife Rights' SCOTUS Case

Postby SpyderEdgeForever » Wed Jun 12, 2019 8:58 pm

Doug, without getting into a political discussion, or as little as possible, why do you think they are so tenaciously holding onto this, instead of just openly declaring it "case closed" since the governor there signed the bill allowing folders? Is it because they are genuinely afraid of violent abuse of the knives, or, its too lucrative a money maker for them to give up, to be able to ticket people?

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critter
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Re: DA & NYC Throw Hail Mary Mootness Argument in Knife Rights' SCOTUS Case

Postby critter » Wed Jun 12, 2019 9:32 pm

I really cannot say. Most NYPD officers I have met think it is BS, but most of them are longtimers and don't need the collars. It has been a "good" and popular collar because of the relatively high level of the crime for little effort on the officer's part. In any case, unfortunately, it is clearly being used as an excuse the harass persons of color with 85% of the arrests being minorities. When the court shut down "stop and frisk" for being unconstitutional and for being so discriminatory, they just kept going using "stop and flick." 97% of the so-called "weapons" they bragged about finding during "stop and frisk" were these exact same common folding knives. I cannot guess at their motivation, but the stats tell a disturbing tale.

When you read the NYPD's and Mayor's position statements over the 7 years we have worked the legislative angle, it has all been over the top hyperbole and misleading stats and I cannot believe that they don't know that, but they fought like cats and dogs and have had no qualms about outright lying about this stuff. I have difficulty fathoming the MTA Subway thing after such overwhelming support for stopping these arrests by passing the bill after 2 vetoes. But, Mayor de Blasio and Gov. Cuomo aren't exactly best buds. Who knows? I certainly don't. I am sure that DA Vance and Cuomo were not happy campers because they hoped to moot the case at the Supreme Court by passing the bill. They desperately don't want to lose this case. NYPD didn't help matters in that regard with their statement to the press that they were going to continue to enforce using the MTA code. .

We shall see. Pins and needles over here and nobody is very good at crystal-balling the Supreme Court. Only about 5% of professionally prepared petitions are granted and far less than that by first time attorneys taking their first case to SCOTUS. But, we don't back down just because of the odds. We always knew we might end up here and we always knew it was going to be a fight. I didn't expect it to be 9 years and counting, but... In for a penny, in for a pound. I am not very good at giving up.

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Re: DA & NYC Throw Hail Mary Mootness Argument in Knife Rights' SCOTUS Case

Postby critter » Wed Jun 12, 2019 9:36 pm

Oh, one last thing. It is NOT a money-maker for the city at all. It costs far more to prosecute these cases than any fines they get.

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Re: DA & NYC Throw Hail Mary Mootness Argument in Knife Rights' SCOTUS Case

Postby The Mastiff » Thu Jun 13, 2019 8:22 pm

Oh, one last thing. It is NOT a money-maker for the city at all. It costs far more to prosecute these cases than any fines they get.
That is a surprise to me. I was under the impression the only out of pocket money for the city was if the NYPD officers were in court on their off day and paid overtime. Everyone else are staff/salary and going to get paid whether they are in court or not. Defense and court costs as well as fines are usually paid by the defendant.

It could get very expensive for the city if they had to defend against and lose civil rights violation cases and pay the costs associated with that and crowd control for the protests that usually come with serial violations of minority rights. I guess it's lucky the community organizer rent a mob folks don't see value in protesting their parties violators. Other than a couple of small circulation articles the media remains largely uninterested in things harmful to their own party as well.

:)

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Re: DA & NYC Throw Hail Mary Mootness Argument in Knife Rights' SCOTUS Case

Postby curlyhairedboy » Mon Jun 17, 2019 4:57 am

Thanks for the insight!
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