Closing one handed: Faster with a backlock than with a compression lock.

[vivi]

.I really think that the fact taht your index finger never has to move from where it is when you pick up the comp lock knife speaks a lot to how quick and easy it is compared to anything else in such a situation. As long as your index finger is able to touch the tab, you can pretty much open and close it in that position all day. Its not at all the case for me with a backlock, but if you got the skills then lets see em!

The link in my sig called how to close backlocks one handed. The third method I show, you can flick it open by depressing the lock the same way I do to close it.

Index finger stays in the same place. fingers clear of the edge. blade flicks in and out lightning fast. how does the comp lock have an advantage?

[vivi]

The whole thing is just really uncomfortable and awkward for your had too, doesnt matter how good you are at it.

It's amazing to me that you think you can tell me what is and isn't comfortable, haha. Why in the world do you think the things that you do? I can open and close a backlock or XL Voyager with a Triad lock and heavy free swinging blade using any three methods I've shown comfortably and without fail over repeated attempts.

[vivi]

Heres another video to demonstrate what I mean by consistency and ease of use: I lay the knife in a few slightly differing positions flat on a surface and then pick up, open, then close the knife as fast as i can, doing this all while looking thru the phone screen. I am absolutely certain there is not a single person in the world that can do this as fast as what is shown in the video with a backlock. I don't even think half the backlocks will be able to be opened like this without some sort of extra adjustment/positioning after you pick it up. And yes, this models a real use scenario, I do this all the time in my car, without taking my eyes off the road.

After that there is another round of rapid open/close repetition, just because I can, and also I'm getting better at it while holding my phone and that this cruwear model has slightly muted action that lends better to a more picture perfect complete closure each time. I think I get off at least 5 perfect open/closes in a row... anyone dare try their hand at replicating the time here with a backlock? :D For the record this is the second time filming meaning there has been 0 extra takes, and this second video is all one whole continuous shot as well.

https://streamable.com/0m5lh

What's the point of that video? You aren't going to use your knife like that. That's great for figdeting, but if you have to cut something it's not.

Either way I can match that speed by depressing a lockback with my index finger and swinging the blade open and shut. But it's a pointless demonstration because it has no practical application.

[Surfingringo]

It would be neat if all of us who argue what the best one hand open/close knife is could get together, put on fall protection harnnesses and lanyard, grab a 20lb bag of tools and parts, walk up 20 flights of stairs, climb some pipe and tie off above the abyss, stradling a pipe, then see who opens and closes their favorite lock knife 500 times with one hand only, cutting a secured zip tie between each open and close, the fastest with greasy hands.
We could also pocket the knife between cuts if wanted, this would weed out the wise guys suggesting a fixed blade.
This is an extreme example of my world (number of cuts).
I would give odds and take all bets on which lock wins.

I bet it rhymes with “backlock”.

[youmakemehole]

It would be neat if all of us who argue what the best one hand open/close knife is could get together, put on fall protection harnnesses and lanyard, grab a 20lb bag of tools and parts, walk up 20 flights of stairs, climb some pipe and tie off above the abyss, stradling a pipe, then see who opens and closes their favorite lock knife 500 times with one hand only, cutting a secured zip tie between each open and close, the fastest with greasy hands.
We could also pocket the knife between cuts if wanted, this would weed out the wise guys suggesting a fixed blade.
This is an extreme example of my world (number of cuts).
I would give odds and take all bets on which lock wins.

Well, that would be the comp lock, duh.. :rolleyes:


I kinda hate how, in an attempt to temper some overly zealous statements made of backlocks, I've made myself look like some flaming comp lock die hard when it is not the case at all. I don't feel particularly attached to comp locks nor do I feel some need to defend a locking mechanism for a folding knife - what was making me uncomfortable was that, like others have said earlier, the statements being made were almost like a weird flex of "I can reload my revolver faster than your semi-auto" and then all the factually questionable statements made surrounding the argument.

The burden of producing a video I guess mostly only lies on Wartstein. And for the record, just because I do not go to a hammer grip in my sequence, doesnt mean I cannot do that and still make the comp lock look like its running circles around the backlock. I'll let whoever wants to make an extended backlock sequence decide what actions they want to chain together, and I'll match it. Otherwise all people will do is criticise the way that I decided to conduct my demonstration. So balls in your court BL bros.. you guys can decide what constitutes a fair demo. It just cannot be one single action, since that doesnt show what happens when you do the sam thing over and over again, as well as the time it actually takes to transition between every action. And lets make it at least say 5 cycles/repetitions.

[ladybug93]

but the real question we all need answered is this: what is the airspeed velocity of an unladen swallow?

[youmakemehole]

Vivi - I addressed all your talking points just now earlier when Wartstein made the same exact ones - Either you have monstrous hand with fingers that can bench press your body weight, or your knives have been modified, and from my experience, if I modded all my backlocks to the point where I can do what you mentioned, there would be a large handful of them with pivot play. Perhaps there is some x factor in your equation here I am missing, otherwise this is all I'd say in response to your claim of all BL's being that easy to operate.

It might look like I'm fidgeting, but the knife is 100% locked and 100% closed at the end of each swing. Meaning I can go straight to a hammer grip or put the knife away for storing right then and there. Perhaps its a subjective opinion, but that to me definitely does demo real use performance. If you take away the part where I cut stuff, and go from the pinch grip to a hammer grip, all you have left is what I did in the video. And trust me, I can make it so I include a transition to the hammer grip on each open. And I will make a claim that it will scrape any backlock trying to do the same tjhing as far as speed until a video is made. Unless the BL is incredibly faster at going from lock pinch grip to hammer grip than the comp lock, why would the difference between with and without the hammer grip transition be be of any significance? Results will still be similar.. it seems like pointing out "flaws" like this does nothing for the BL's side of the argument... other than stalling... understandable as I think any finale of a comp lock vs BL comparison video whether it incorporates a hammer grip or not will not fare well for one of the sides!

[ugaarguy]

but the real question we all need answered is this: what is the airspeed velocity of an unladen swallow?

Is that an African Swallow or a European Swallow?

[Wartstein]

I

....
The burden of producing a video I guess mostly only lies on Wartstein. And for the record, just because I do not go to a hammer grip in my sequence, doesnt mean I cannot do that and still make the comp lock look like its running circles around the backlock. I'll let whoever wants to make an extended backlock sequence decide what actions they want to chain together, and I'll match it. Otherwise all people will do is criticise the way that I decided to conduct my demonstration. So balls in your court BL bros.. you guys can decide what constitutes a fair demo. It just cannot be one single action, since that doesnt show what happens when you do the sam thing over and over again, as well as the time it actually takes to transition between every action. And lets make it at least say 5 cycles/repetitions.

First: I totally admit that I am partially to be blamed for the direction this thread has shifted, by choosing it´s click-bait title ("..backlock faster than comp.lock"). That was not a good idea in hindsight. Sure I wanted to draw attention to the thread (hence the title), but it was NOT my goal to start a competition, but to "help" some people to overcome their general reluctance when it comes to backlocks, so that the one or the or the other maybe would not miss out any longer on great (backlock-)knives.

That being said: Youmakemehole, I really have nothing against you, but I guess we have different approaches to this forum or this thread (and both are equally ok, just different): Just for clarifcation, and NOT to offend you(!), following some of your statements: "If you can beat me" - "Its almost 6pm PST and the BL boys have been absolutely silent" - "balls in cour court BL bros": :
I have nothing against a competitive approach to things sometimes, but this is not the place for it, just for me (but it´s fine if it is for you)
If I and others state that I/we can close backlocks as fast as comp.locks (see my first post for the times I measured) I´d expect people to believe this in the first place. Really, as stated already, I don´t want to have to prove anything here, and I also don´t want to "beat" anyone in anything. I only firmly state things, when I know that they are true, otherwise I make clear that I am just assuming something or just don´t know if it´s true (and I did this many times on this forum already). If some people still doubt me, that´s fine, to be honest..

Now: As said, I have absolutely nothing against making and posting a video, if people who believe my statements anyway are additionally interested in actually watching that a backlock is easy and fast to operate (though Vivi showed this already quite comprehensive). But please understand, that this forum is not the place where I personally am willing to accept or prioritize "challenges". I often quickly post on this forum from my smartphone while having a short break, but I never even MADE a video with my smartphone ever, and taking the time to do so, to "learn" that streamable thing, to be at home at my laptop and having enough time, to upload and post a vid is a different story. I can do this when I have the time, but I am not eagerly putting other things aside to answer to some kind of "challenge" - again, no offense to you, rather the contrary: By taking the time to write this post (while where I live it´s a sunny morning outside, i have the day off and the mountains are calling ), I think I actually DO show you my respect. :)

I guess, if I do a vid I won´t post it here, but in a dedicated, new thread (something like: "The totally ridiculous but maybe still funny knife-skills-challenge thread".. )

Two contentual points quickly and once more (just words for now, no vid.. ):

- As I and then Vivi said already: If you just want to fidget your blade, and relinquish any usefull (for cutting) grip in the process (like you do in many parts of your vids): You can do this equally well and fast with a backlock and a complock:
Backlock: Press the lockbar with your INDEX finger, and just swing the blade in the open/closed position
Comp.lock: Do exactly the same, the only difference being that your index finger is pressing the locktab on the SIDE of the knife, NOT on the top like on a backlock.
I admit, that doing this with a backlock probably requires more fingerstrength.

- On "consistency": I even am not sure what you mean: You actually think, someone used to a backlock would have troubles to open the knife (lets say in half a second) and afterwards close it (lets say in about one second or to go easy a bit more) five times in a row??? Honestly, its´s NO problem at all to do this fifty or hundred or more times in a row using several methods without EVER messing up. But again, if you use backlocks frequently yourself you probably know this anyway, and I got you wrong on the consistency-thing??

If ones finger muscles will fatigue faster on a backlock or a complock when trying to JUST open/close a knife as often and as fast as possible in a row, I can´t tell - if that´s what you happen to mean. But that would concern the MOST irrelevant skill of all the skills discussed in this thread already..

[Wartstein]

Vivi - I addressed all your talking points just now earlier when Wartstein made the same exact ones - Either you have monstrous hand with fingers that can bench press your body weight, or your knives have been modified, and from my experience, if I modded all my backlocks to the point where I can do what you mentioned, there would be a large handful of them with pivot play. Perhaps there is some x factor in your equation here I am missing, otherwise this is all I'd say in response to your claim of all BL's being that easy to operate.

It might look like I'm fidgeting, but the knife is 100% locked and 100% closed at the end of each swing. Meaning I can go straight to a hammer grip or put the knife away for storing right then and there. Perhaps its a subjective opinion, but that to me definitely does demo real use performance. If you take away the part where I cut stuff, and go from the pinch grip to a hammer grip, all you have left is what I did in the video. And trust me, I can make it so I include a transition to the hammer grip on each open. And I will make a claim that it will scrape any backlock trying to do the same tjhing as far as speed until a video is made. Unless the BL is incredibly faster at going from lock pinch grip to hammer grip than the comp lock, why would the difference between with and without the hammer grip transition be be of any significance? Results will still be similar.. it seems like pointing out "flaws" like this does nothing for the BL's side of the argument... other than stalling... understandable as I think any finale of a comp lock vs BL comparison video whether it incorporates a hammer grip or not will not fare well for one of the sides!

Just read your post above after finishing my reply (see my previous post):

Before I finally leave for the mountains ( ) a quick statement:

- Man, believe me, I DON`T modify my backlocks, I DON`T like bladeplay, most of them are not or just very "reluctantly" free droppers. Still I can do all the things Vivi showed and described. Admittedly, I probably have somewhat stronger hands / fingers from climbing and playing the guitar (and especially bass-guitar) sometimes.

- "Going from lock pinch grip to hammer grip"; I just took a fully opened backlock knife and a fully opened comp lock knife, both in a "lock pinch grip" (index finger on locktab/lockbar) and went from that to hammergrip: Honestly could not tell which ones faster, you might be right that if you practice both it´s probably the comp.lock by a tiny bit.
BUT: That´s totally irrelevant anyway! That point is: How easy and fast can you get from "knife fully closed" to "knife opened in a hammer grip (or any useful for cutting grip) " with ANY method you happen to prefer. THAT (so in REAL LIFE and PRACTICAL USE) is when comp. lock and back lock are about equal, and that´s ALL I wanted to show in this thread... :o

[vivi]

Vivi - I addressed all your talking points just now earlier when Wartstein made the same exact ones - Either you have monstrous hand with fingers that can bench press your body weight, or your knives have been modified, and from my experience, if I modded all my backlocks to the point where I can do what you mentioned, there would be a large handful of them with pivot play. Perhaps there is some x factor in your equation here I am missing, otherwise this is all I'd say in response to your claim of all BL's being that easy to operate.

Here's a video of me opening and closing my stiffest, grittiest lockback, my dirty SE Pacific Salt with a tight, gritty pivot. I keep it extra tight at the pivot because I carry it IWB when trail running, hiking etc., so this is much stiffer than my Police 3 & 4, Calypso etc. It hasn't even been lubed since 2018.

https://streamable.com/o1oxj

It might look like I'm fidgeting, but the knife is 100% locked and 100% closed at the end of each swing.

I called it fidgeting not to be condescending, but because what you're doing in the video has zero practical value IMO. I can swing comp locks open and shut like that too. Same with backlocks and cbbl. But you aren't using your knife in that grip, are you? So if you're simply swinging a blade open and shut without putting it in a using grip, that's fidgeting.

Now, there's nothing wrong with fidgeting, but I was under the impression Wartstein was discussing things in the context of using the knife. I might be mistaken.

And trust me, I can make it so I include a transition to the hammer grip on each open. And I will make a claim that it will scrape any backlock trying to do the same tjhing as far as speed until a video is made.

Well make a video where you're transitioning into a using grip. I can do the same with a cbbl or comp lock if anyone cares for me too, already did the bl one. Granted my only comp lock is the NOT free swinging Szabo with a self close, so its not quite apples to apples vs a Para 2 or 3.

Unless the BL is incredibly faster at going from lock pinch grip to hammer grip than the comp lock, why would the difference between with and without the hammer grip transition be be of any significance?

Because that's the entire crux of your position. You state comp locks are faster but then use a completely different standard. I could do a 500 meter dash faster than you if you ran and I used a bike, but what does that prove? Transition into a using grip between each open, and do 12 open and close cycles in 22 seconds. If you can't, then that shows the locks are equal in speed. If you can, well I'll make a video when I'm not dead tired 10 hours into a shift, where I do ~15 cycles in 22 seconds with my Police 3 that's broken in, well lubed, has hand polished liners and fits my hand size better. :)

Results will still be similar.. it seems like pointing out "flaws" like this does nothing for the BL's side of the argument...

Compare apples to apples then! Do a video like the one in this post.

https://streamable.com/o1oxj - 11 open and close cycles in 2 seconds per cycle, transitioning into a using grip each time, no failures, first try, dead tired at my night shift.

[ladybug93]

here’s a video to sum all of this up:
https://youtu.be/HLUX0y4EptA

[Wartstein]

.

.

Same with backlocks and cbbl. But you aren't using your knife in that grip, are you? So if you're simply swinging a blade open and shut without putting it in a using grip, that's fidgeting.

Now, there's nothing wrong with fidgeting, but I was under the impression Wartstein was discussing things in the context of using the knife. I might be mistaken.

.

Vivi, you´re right, I sure was discussing this from a practical standpoint, so as you said "in the context of using a knife".
Explained that once more in my two lengthy posts above yours, I am on the road right now, so I just copy and paste some sections out of these two posts into here:

" As I and then Vivi said already: If you just want to fidget your blade, and relinquish any usefull (for cutting) grip in the process (like you do in many parts of your vids): You can do this equally well and fast with a backlock and a complock:
Backlock: Press the lockbar with your INDEX finger, and just swing the blade in the open/closed position
Comp.lock: Do exactly the same, the only difference being that your index finger is pressing the locktab on the SIDE of the knife, NOT on the top like on a backlock.
I admit, doing thatthis with a backlock probably requires more fingerstrength.

- On "consistency": I even am not sure what you mean: You actually think, someone used to a backlock would have troubles to open the knife (lets say in half a second) and afterwards close it (lets say in about one second or to go easy a bit more) five times in a row??? Honestly, its´s NO problem at all to do this fifty or hundred or more times in a row using several methods without EVER messing up. But again, if you use backlocks frequently yourself you probably know this anyway, and I got you wrong on the consistency-thing?? "

" "Going from lock pinch grip to hammer grip"; I just took a fully opened backlock knife and a fully opened comp lock knife, both in a "lock pinch grip" (index finger on locktab/lockbar) and went from that to hammergrip: Honestly could not tell which ones faster, you might be right that if you practice both it´s probably the comp.lock by a tiny bit.
BUT: That´s totally irrelevant anyway! The point is: How easy and fast can you get from "knife fully closed" to "knife opened in a hammer grip (or any useful- for-cutting-grip) " with ANY method you happen to prefer. THAT (so in REAL LIFE and PRACTICAL USE) is when comp. lock and back lock are about equal, and that´s ALL I wanted to show in this thread... :o

[youmakemehole]

Warstein I will say that I share your sentiment and I appreciate you being the respectful person you are and how you have kept your thread from any necessary negativity that would detract from anything other than objectively discussing a topic where two parties have a difference of opinion. And if your main intent was to encourage other people to open up to backlocks then I can't say I have any problem with that. I just became under the impression that in order to prove whatever point you were trying to, that certain subjective opinions were started to be stated as absolute facts. And so if one was going to make an absolute statement on something subjective, i.e. which lock is easier/faster/better, that between the two, there was no way the comp lock was going to be the lesser one, and if the idea was propagated as such, it would probably lead a lot of people give backlocks a try only to be terribly disappointed that they cannot operate it the same as people who have had countless dozens or hundreds of hours of practice and experience with it.

I still stand with my previous stance, very firmly at that – you say yeah it might take a little more strength to operate, but that is the entire reason why I do not find it as reliable, safe, easy, or fast as a comp lock, and the difference is magnified even more when they impact your driving. In addition to more force, it requires more precise placement. So say I have the knife open, and I cannot close it in time and I have to steer the wheel with both hands with knife in hand, when I let go of the wheel and attempt to close the knife again, the backlock is undoubtedly going to give me more trouble. So in theory, if you are just using words to talk about the matter, it may seem that since opening/closing a BL and comp lock are similar in terms of how you only need to press on one point, that doing it repeatedly at a comparable speed would yield similar results as well. It is actually very different in practice and I think you will find this to be true if you go ahead and attempt a few cycles of open/closes in a row.

Even something I'd consider myself to be pretty consistent at – the Spydie flick – will fail me from time to time. Even if it is say 3 out of every 100 times the difference between it and a more consistent opening method, say from an automatic switchblade's button, becomes very noticable and significant the more intense of a situation you are in. Just as failure rates of even under 1% are not negligible for cars, or firearms, when you are in higher stakes situations like operating heavy machinery or self defense it matters a whole lot, and differences typically ignored during casual times become extremely tangible and impactful. I dont think the rate of failure for a backlock is even close to as small as 1% when you are operating it as fast as you can, I'd guesstimate it would be more like 10% at that speed, that of course is based off my own subjective experience, but also something that both you and Vivi vehemently deny. So all I wanted to see if it really was the case, because that would probably mean for myself that I am extremely challenged when it comes to operating backlocks, even after so many years. :P Also, the part where I go from knife on the table to open - I do believe that is a very practical demonstration, and maybe you guys could shed some light on whether that is something a back lock could do just as easily at the same speed. I have no ego to maintain and nothing to prove, and I dont care if my opinions of the past were right or wrong, only that they are correct now. So for anyone catching bad vibes from what I'm saying please believe my intentions here.

[youmakemehole]

It might look like I'm fidgeting, but the knife is 100% locked and 100% closed at the end of each swing.

I called it fidgeting not to be condescending, but because what you're doing in the video has zero practical value IMO. I can swing comp locks open and shut like that too. Same with backlocks and cbbl. But you aren't using your knife in that grip, are you? So if you're simply swinging a blade open and shut without putting it in a using grip, that's fidgeting.

Now, there's nothing wrong with fidgeting, but I was under the impression Wartstein was discussing things in the context of using the knife. I might be mistaken.

And trust me, I can make it so I include a transition to the hammer grip on each open. And I will make a claim that it will scrape any backlock trying to do the same tjhing as far as speed until a video is made.

Well make a video where you're transitioning into a using grip. I can do the same with a cbbl or comp lock if anyone cares for me too, already did the bl one. Granted my only comp lock is the NOT free swinging Szabo with a self close, so its not quite apples to apples vs a Para 2 or 3.

Unless the BL is incredibly faster at going from lock pinch grip to hammer grip than the comp lock, why would the difference between with and without the hammer grip transition be be of any significance?

Because that's the entire crux of your position. You state comp locks are faster but then use a completely different standard. I could do a 500 meter dash faster than you if you ran and I used a bike, but what does that prove? Transition into a using grip between each open, and do 12 open and close cycles in 22 seconds. If you can't, then that shows the locks are equal in speed. If you can, well I'll make a video when I'm not dead tired 10 hours into a shift, where I do ~15 cycles in 22 seconds with my Police 3 that's broken in, well lubed, has hand polished liners and fits my hand size better. :)

Results will still be similar.. it seems like pointing out "flaws" like this does nothing for the BL's side of the argument...

https://streamable.com/o1oxj - 11 open and close cycles in 2 seconds per cycle, transitioning into a using grip each time, no failures, first try, dead tired at my night shift.

Ok,...Im going to assume then that what you call hammer grip is just having your hand slightly more aligned? We are not holding the knife in a clenched fist right. I think for me to fulfill such a requirement really would just mean I shift my position to a slightly less comfortable one. It really is not a big deal. I even have some cycles where i wrap my middle, ring, and pinky around the front like you are, but my grip also makes my thumb and index to be much closer to a "usable position" than what your hammer grip is I believe. Halfway thru my muscle memory gets confused as this is again the first take, I did maybe 3-4 practice openings before filming and that was it. If theres any doubt I can do 11 in a row with my fingers where they should be etc just call me out and Ill upload another. The fact is though if your video was the absolute fastest possible on a backlock then the absolute fastest in my video was about 2x the speed. Too lazy to practice this sequence tonight or film anymore, but if we want a perfectly fair comparison where I do 11 instead of 4 or whatever I did int this one, I will do it, and there shoukld be no reason it will be any slower. However, I don't think either of us employed a fully "usable" grip at any point in our sequences, so idk how fair that is to call your grip usable when it is just where your hand is positioned for closing a backlock and mine not usable because it doesnt look the same as yours :/ Maybe it could be fair for me to say that my grip without the wrapping fingers is usable as well, when it is the palm and the middle/ring/pinky squeezing the sides fot eh knife? I know If I had to, I could definitely cut something from that position. In which case, the sequence would be just as fast as the first video. The only thing that would detract from the speed of the first "fidget" video is if I had to place any fingers in the path of the blade. I could say that the index on spine grip which doesnt involve fingers int he blade path is totally useable, and that my positioning in this vid is pretty much 90% of that grip. All i'd need to do is move my index from the lock to the spine. Anyways feel free to let me know what youre thinking after this one.

https://streamable.com/an9jf


6 cycles actually... and toward teh end, around teh 5th and 6th sycle, I am approaching the speed of my first video. This is with nearly zero practice as you can tell from how confused my hand looks

[SpyderSeth]

This is all embarrassing.

[vivi]

I tell you what. I'm going to match your video with a backlock, using your style.

https://streamable.com/rb27v

Your last video was just like this. You aren't wrapping your fingers around the handle to achieve a working grip like in my last video. I did a video on your terms. Can you do one on mine, like the last one?

https://streamable.com/o1oxj

Can you admit backlocks are just as fast now?

[youmakemehole]

I tell you what. I'm going to match your video with a backlock, using your style.

https://streamable.com/rb27v

Your last video was just like this. You aren't wrapping your fingers around the handle to achieve a working grip like in my last video. I did a video on your terms. Can you do one on mine, like the last one?

https://streamable.com/o1oxj

Can you admit backlocks are just as fast now?

Well, I did wrap them for the first 6 cycles, and I was much faster. IF I wanted to get technical about usable grips and what not, the one I employ in the second video is usable. It literally is an index finger on the spine grip but with the index finger on the lock. This last video you are matching the speed, but you have a grip similar to the "unusable" one in my first video no? The thing is with a comp lock, I can do what you just did in a variety of grips. Some can be quite close to a working grip. There is nowhere that says a working grip needs to have fingers wrapped around the bottom. It really is just a matter of how comfortable it is to hold it in such a way. I might also add, I think my grip is more usable with just the index needing to be extended as opposed to yours which does have the back three fingers wrapped around the bottom but your index and thumb is splayed out.

If we really want to be truly realistic, which is what I believe you are pushing for here, perhaps we should do one where we actually close the lock from a hand position that is 100% what it would be like if we had just finished cutting. Meaning something like a clenched up grip to a closed blade. Or like what I demo'ed earlier - a closed blade on the table, and then picking it up and opening. Both much more realistic than this pseudo-usable grip whatever we are trying to define as we go along.

And sorry to do this to you, becuase you seem like your getting upset – if I only focused on the "fidget" action then I can still be 2x as fast as your respective video:

https://streamable.com/1hxhg

I feel like you think I'm being ridiculous by continuing to argue my stance... but I feel the exact same way towards you backlock afis! Its so obvious that whatever a backlock does, a comp lock can more or less do 2x as fast, with 2x as many hand positions, and 2x the ease. I'm not sure why, perhaps its ego, or maybe just very little exposure to comp locks, whatever it is, it seems just incredulous to me.

Edit: I think all points have been made and thoroughly fleshed out and there isnt really anything productive left that can come from continuing this debate. My thoughts are summed up in this post from earlier:

The thread actually reminds of gun forum debates on semi-auto vs revolver reload speeds. Yes, a skilled user with lots of practice can reload a revolver faster than an average user can reload a semi, but in equally skilled and practiced hands the semi will be faster to reload. The average user will likewise reload a semi faster.

A final analogy I would make to hopefully help those still oblivious to my perspective – say Apple made an additional iphone, exactly the same as the one out right now, but the home button and screen on/off button were, instead of buttons, Spyderco backlock mechanisms. So each time you want to go home or turn off your screen, you need to essentially operate a backlock. Can I get this phone and operate it faster than people with normal phones? Probably with enough practice. Then what if I went around and told people their normal iphones were just as easy to operate as my backlock iphone? Are there people here who agree thatd be kinda pushing it? And it would also make sense, that people who only used their phones in relaxed environments would not feel as big of a difference compared to people who would be using the phone while driving? And also if you were going to use your phone while driving, would you be indifferent about whether or not you had the ibacklockphone or a normal iphone?

[Wartstein]

OP here: I guess I'm out,this is getting crazy., sorry ..

No offense, but especially the "fidget thing" tipped me over the edge: Vivi has shown that a backlock is as fast in that regard as a comp lock,when the blade is fully deployed and locked resp. fuly closed in each "run". Now the next challenge should be to "speed swing" a blade without even locking it?! Enough, for me at least .

I know, 100 % I personally can operate a backlock as fast as a comp. lock in I guess every relevant scenario, muliple times in a row. I hope most here believe that, who does not: So be it...

Back to the original and for me ONLY purpose when I started the thread (and gave it a silly title, MY BAD!!):

I hope some people who shyed away from backlocks so far cause they thought backlocks are really slow and awkward to operate, don't do so anymore and give the great Spyderco backlock knives a chance!! :)

[youmakemehole]

OP here: I guess I'm out,this is getting crazy., sorry ..

No offense, but especially the "fidget thing" tipped me over the edge: Vivi has shown that a backlock is as fast in that regard as a comp lock,when the blade is fully deployed and locked resp. fuly closed in each "run". Now the next challenge should be to "speed swing" a blade without even locking it?! Enough, for me at least .

I know, 100 % I personally can operate a backlock as fast as a comp. lock in I guess every relevant scenario, muliple times in a row. I hope most here believe that, who does not: So be it...

Back to the original and for me ONLY purpose when I started the thread (and gave it a silly title, MY BAD!!):

I hope some people who shyed away from backlocks so far cause they thought backlocks are really slow and awkward to operate, don't do so anymore and give the great Spyderco backlock knives a chance!! :)

Ok, I have to be that guy that has to get the last word in this time, it really is not as fast!!!! I was just being lazy with the previous video. Notice how hard the backlock is straining to operate it like that too... I think if it had to go for another 4 cycles it would have been quite uncomfortable.I've been doing this all night and I can keep doing it. If your arm is straining to operate a lock like that after 4 cycles, you can be sure that very soon you will make a mistake somewhere.

hope i can stop myslef from posting any more videos after this one: : https://streamable.com/g1qlf


I do agree with the overall message of your thread Warstein, and I apologize if I came bulldozing into your guys's nice cheerful tea party and just started blowing it up with vdeos no one wanted to see... I dont think there shoukld ever be a good reason for anyone to say that I they are just not ever going to try a locking mechanism for whatever reason. If I can leave this thread with one last word, one that is not my own opinion for a change - I remember some people talking/comparing strengths of locks and I thought I heard some things said that didnt sound quite on point... So as far as I understand from watching a ton of youtubeis that compression locks can hold between 100-150 lbs of force on the spine, BBL can hold 200-250 tops, Axis locks around 300.. The number 600 is also floating in my memory attached to the brand Benchmade... I want to say it was a backlock but perhaps it coulve been axis as well, in the case if it was an axis lock, 600 lbs is quite an exceptional anomaly. Cold steel triad locks which are just slightly more high tech backlocks can be anywhere between 300-800 lbs. 800 lbs goes to the 4max which is the "strongest" folder on the market, honestly to hold 800 lbs means it is stronger than a handful of weaker fixed blades. Backlocks can also be much weaker than that, most EDC backlocks such as the Delica are going to hold up fairly similarly to their Paramilitary cousins at around 100-150 lbs. So yeah backlocks can be equal to comp locks in strength but can also be way way stronger.