Given that VG10 / S30V are 100% rustproof enough for me - is there still a reason for LC 200 N?

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Wartstein
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Given that VG10 / S30V are 100% rustproof enough for me - is there still a reason for LC 200 N?

Postby Wartstein » Sat May 04, 2019 3:29 pm

LC 200 N has been disussed a lot lately and people really seem to like it.

Admittedly, I did not have the time thus far to thoroughly inform myself about that steel.

But what I catched so far:

- It is probably somehwere between VG10 and S30 V concerning edge holding and ease of sharpening
- it´s main advantage over these two (or almost any steel) is it´s virtually total corrosion resistance.

That´s great, don´t get me wrong, but just for my personal needs, the climate I live in, and in my quite extensive experience with VG10 and S30V, these two steel give me absolutely 100% everything I need when it comes to rustproofness. Never had any issues.

Given that: Is there any other real advantage than it´s corrosion resistance that LC 200 N could offer me?

To be clear:

- I am not talking about general interest in experiencing new steels, but specific advantages of LC 200 N
- I am aware of the benefits LC 200 N would have, if I moved to a more humid, saltier climate or even just were on vacation there. But that´s not what I am intersted in here, just in advantages over VG10 and S30V OTHER than rustproofness!
- I just think of my personal day to day use, NOT that I maybe could sell the knife easier in LC 200 N than in S30V or the like.

Some thoughts on that would be much appreciated!
Top three going by pocket-time: Endura 4 in VG 10/Micarta-scales; Stretch 1 in VG 10; Endura 4 in HAP 40

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Re: Given that VG10 / S30V are 100% rustproof enough for me - is there still a reason for LC 200 N?

Postby bearfacedkiller » Sat May 04, 2019 3:33 pm

The Salts are designed for folks who live near salt water. If you do not then you may not need that level of corrosion resistance. I personally do not.

I have been less than impressed with the corrosion resistance of S30V. It have had it spot up on me countless times. I wouldn’t bring it to the ocean myself.
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Re: Given that VG10 / S30V are 100% rustproof enough for me - is there still a reason for LC 200 N?

Postby Wartstein » Sat May 04, 2019 3:42 pm

bearfacedkiller wrote:
Sat May 04, 2019 3:33 pm
The Salts are designed for folks who live near salt water. If you do not then you may not need that level of corrosion resistance. I personally do not.

I have been less than impressed with the corrosion resistance of S30V. It have had it spot up on me countless times. I wouldn’t bring it to the ocean myself.
Thanks for your reply! Have you ever tried LC 200 N? As said, I´d be interested in properties OTHER than it´s high corrosion resistance, since I really don´t need that level of it.

Funny, lately I have been discussing the rustproofness of VG10. Like you with S30V, people seem to have rust spots on VG10 too (very rarely though).
I personally honestly never had any issues (concerning both steels), though my S30 V and VG 10 knives get wet and not dry again for longer periods of time not too seldom. Never in salt water though.
Top three going by pocket-time: Endura 4 in VG 10/Micarta-scales; Stretch 1 in VG 10; Endura 4 in HAP 40

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Re: Given that VG10 / S30V are 100% rustproof enough for me - is there still a reason for LC 200 N?

Postby Wartstein » Sat May 04, 2019 3:45 pm

Vivi wrote:
Sat May 04, 2019 3:38 pm
If you don't need the extra corrosion resistance then I'd stick with VG10.
Thanks, Vivi!
May I ask: Other than corrosion resictance: Do you feel LC 200 N is closer to VG10 or S30V?
Or to put it differently: Where does it fit in between these two steels concerning edge holding, sharpenability and toughness? Though I can remember that you did get your waterway (in LC200N of course) just quite recently (watched your review), so maybe you can´t tell right now?
Top three going by pocket-time: Endura 4 in VG 10/Micarta-scales; Stretch 1 in VG 10; Endura 4 in HAP 40

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Re: Given that VG10 / S30V are 100% rustproof enough for me - is there still a reason for LC 200 N?

Postby Vivi » Sat May 04, 2019 3:54 pm

Others could offer a better perspective than me since they've spent more time with the steel, but my impressions so far are that LC200N seems like a rust proof VG10.

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Re: Given that VG10 / S30V are 100% rustproof enough for me - is there still a reason for LC 200 N?

Postby Wartstein » Sat May 04, 2019 4:00 pm

Vivi wrote:
Sat May 04, 2019 3:54 pm
Others could offer a better perspective than me since they've spent more time with the steel, but my impressions so far are that LC200N seems like a rust proof VG10.
Thanks! Sounds like just a very good EDC steel for guys like me with merely basic sharpening skills.
Top three going by pocket-time: Endura 4 in VG 10/Micarta-scales; Stretch 1 in VG 10; Endura 4 in HAP 40

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Re: Given that VG10 / S30V are 100% rustproof enough for me - is there still a reason for LC 200 N?

Postby SpyderEdgeForever » Sat May 04, 2019 4:25 pm

Not only are the Salts important for salt-water corrosion-resistance but I believe they are also important because they help advance stainless steel alloy and metal alloy technology in general, by their existence.

They are proof positive to people that cutting-edge technological development pays off in the form of practical products.

This is important, because, this may surprise you, but, I have found that there are some scientists and engineers who have a low-regard for steel technology. One of them told me "Noone needs any new steel alloys than 440 series and carbon tool steel. The human race would be fine with that. We need to focus our technology in other areas instead." I completely disagree with that opinion.

And so this is one reason why I am so glad for Lc200N, H1, and other nitrogen-rich stainless steel alloys.

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Re: Given that VG10 / S30V are 100% rustproof enough for me - is there still a reason for LC 200 N?

Postby ZrowsN1s » Sat May 04, 2019 4:31 pm

I really like the edge that LC200N takes. The main advantage for me with the "rust proofs" over "stain-less" is how long I can leave them dirty. I can use them for food prep or as a table knife when I'm not at home and just leave them crusted dirty for a few days until I get around to cleaning them with hot water and soap. Stainless as it is, I wouldn't do that with VG10.
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Re: Given that VG10 / S30V are 100% rustproof enough for me - is there still a reason for LC 200 N?

Postby Wartstein » Sat May 04, 2019 4:46 pm

SpyderEdgeForever wrote:
Sat May 04, 2019 4:25 pm
Not only are the Salts important for salt-water corrosion-resistance but I believe they are also important because they help advance stainless steel alloy and metal alloy technology in general, by their existence.

They are proof positive to people that cutting-edge technological development pays off in the form of practical products.

This is important, because, this may surprise you, but, I have found that there are some scientists and engineers who have a low-regard for steel technology. One of them told me "Noone needs any new steel alloys than 440 series and carbon tool steel. The human race would be fine with that. We need to focus our technology in other areas instead." I completely disagree with that opinion.

And so this is one reason why I am so glad for Lc200N, H1, and other nitrogen-rich stainless steel alloys.
SEF, these are good and interesting thoughts, and I am totally with you on that! I sure think it is great that steels like LC 200 N are beeing developed, Spyderco offers knives in it and many people enjoy and benefit from it!

Just when it comes to my little niche, my personal needs, I feel like I´d not need any more rustproofness than VG10 offers me already.
Top three going by pocket-time: Endura 4 in VG 10/Micarta-scales; Stretch 1 in VG 10; Endura 4 in HAP 40

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Re: Given that VG10 / S30V are 100% rustproof enough for me - is there still a reason for LC 200 N?

Postby Doeswhateveraspidercan » Sat May 04, 2019 5:18 pm

Yes if you want a truly use it, wet it and forget it be decadently lazy and not be concerned then there is your answer. Leave it wet, leave it bloody, clean it when you darn well feel like it. Truly this is a liberating steel. :)
:)

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Re: Given that VG10 / S30V are 100% rustproof enough for me - is there still a reason for LC 200 N?

Postby Doeswhateveraspidercan » Sat May 04, 2019 5:20 pm

Vivi wrote:
Sat May 04, 2019 3:54 pm
Others could offer a better perspective than me since they've spent more time with the steel, but my impressions so far are that LC200N seems like a rust proof VG10.
This but VG10 can and will react better to a finer grit. LC200N likes it toothy and brown rods will do it justice.
:)

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Re: Given that VG10 / S30V are 100% rustproof enough for me - is there still a reason for LC 200 N?

Postby Evil D » Sat May 04, 2019 5:36 pm

I get better edges from LC than I do from VG10, and that's saying something since VG10 isn't exactly challenging to get sharp. Whether you really NEED it or not, the fact that LC is rust proof is still true and will still be an advantage. It makes for a good carefree use and abuse knife that needs virtually no maintenance at all.
SHARPEN IT LIKE YOU LOVE IT, USE IT LIKE YOU HATE IT
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Re: Given that VG10 / S30V are 100% rustproof enough for me - is there still a reason for LC 200 N?

Postby Doeswhateveraspidercan » Sat May 04, 2019 6:57 pm

BTW I have most certainly have had S30V not only rust but pit so yeah not true.
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Re: Given that VG10 / S30V are 100% rustproof enough for me - is there still a reason for LC 200 N?

Postby Enactive » Sat May 04, 2019 7:07 pm

Another advantage of LC, is that it has a very high toughness, tougher than many tool steels. This aspect is often under-reported.

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Re: Given that VG10 / S30V are 100% rustproof enough for me - is there still a reason for LC 200 N?

Postby zhyla » Sat May 04, 2019 9:43 pm

I think there are two kinds of people who need rustproof steel:

1. People who actually take knives in the water or on ocean vessels.
2. People who don’t like minor discolorations on their EDC’s.

I’ve scoured eBay for years and rarely see a rusty Spyderco. Nearly destroyed blades due to abuse, yes, but at best some surface patina. So I would conclude most users don’t “need” LC200N. And those that do know they do because they can smell the salt in the air.

Some people have mentioned in the tropics they need rustproof steels. I don’t know which category they really falls into, but if you can keep a machete in working order I suspect your folder will be ok.

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Re: Given that VG10 / S30V are 100% rustproof enough for me - is there still a reason for LC 200 N?

Postby kodai78 » Sat May 04, 2019 10:08 pm

LC 200N is easy to sharpen on the Sharpmaker and in a FFG like the Spydiechef is a superb slicer. I love some of my knives in VG 10 for the design, the ergonomics, like the Cook’s knife and the Superleaf, but not for the steel. Nothing wrong with VG 10, but it’s not exciting either. My Spydiechef on the other hand I love the design, the steel and the ergos. So I prefer but, do not truly need LC 200.
:spyder: Smock, Baby Jess Horn CE, Spydiechef, Schempp Bowie,Ti Fluted Military, Titanium Military, Native S30 V and G10, PM 2 in S35VN, and S110V, Manix 2 LW BD1, Sage 5, Positron black CPM S30V, Chaparral w/Raffir Noble scales, SuperLeaf VG 10, Ladybug H1, Dragonfly 2 in ZDP 189 and Superblue/420J1 and H1, Delica in ZDP 189, Clipitool Standard, the Cook’s knife VG10, Santorum, paring and utility knives, all in MBS 26. :spyder:

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Re: Given that VG10 / S30V are 100% rustproof enough for me - is there still a reason for LC 200 N?

Postby James Y » Sat May 04, 2019 10:23 pm

Back in the 1980s into the late '90s, the only knife I carried for over a decade was one Victorinox Spartan SAK when I lived in Taiwan and after returning Stateside. It pretty much handled whatever I needed a knife for, and other things unsuited for a knife (handled by the other tools on it). As far as I knew, there wasn't a VG-10, and there certainly wasn't any S30V, and I did OK without them.

Now if we talk about likes, as far as single-bladed knives like Spyderco knives go, my favorite steel at the moment is LC200N. I love the way it takes a super-sharp edge with complete ease, and holds it pretty nicely, too. Even though I do live near the sea, if I never take my Caribbean into the salt water I'd still love it. Going into the water is not a requirement to like LC200N. I just like the steel (I like it better than H1), and I don't consider myself a steel snob.

Jim

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Re: Given that VG10 / S30V are 100% rustproof enough for me - is there still a reason for LC 200 N?

Postby Vivi » Sat May 04, 2019 10:28 pm

zhyla wrote:
Sat May 04, 2019 9:43 pm
I think there are two kinds of people who need rustproof steel:

1. People who actually take knives in the water or on ocean vessels.
2. People who don’t like minor discolorations on their EDC’s.

I’ve scoured eBay for years and rarely see a rusty Spyderco. Nearly destroyed blades due to abuse, yes, but at best some surface patina. So I would conclude most users don’t “need” LC200N. And those that do know they do because they can smell the salt in the air.

Some people have mentioned in the tropics they need rustproof steels. I don’t know which category they really falls into, but if you can keep a machete in working order I suspect your folder will be ok.
machetes don't spend 16 hours a day in a sweaty pocket. either way most machetes I see are covered in rust :rolleyes:

Check out my Police 4 observations thread. Liners rusted from being in my pocket on a couple of hikes last month. It's a lot more convenient having a knife that doesn't do that.

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Re: Given that VG10 / S30V are 100% rustproof enough for me - is there still a reason for LC 200 N?

Postby wrdwrght » Sat May 04, 2019 10:47 pm

FWIW, I find LC200N’s sharpening response to be noticeably better than VG10 and S30V. That alone makes me happy to have it.

And while I no longer spend much time on saltwater, I can now reach for my Spydiechef, Caribbean, or WaterWay during one of New England’s infamous hot, hazy, and humid spells without a thought of rust, even though VG10 and S30V have given me no rust issues during such spells.
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