Poll: Preferred steel choice(s) for a Manix 2 XL Sprint or Exclusive?

[Evil D]

Unfortunately I had to vote "not for me". There are just other models in this size I'd prefer.

[TomAiello]

What are the advantages of V4E? On paper it doesn't seem terribly exotic compared to some of the other choices.

I bought and carried a V4E (fixed blade--Bradford guardian 3) to try it out, to tide me over while waiting for the Province Bowie.

My experience:

1) Great edge holding--as good as my s110v Manix (not as good as Maxamet, but nothing else has been, and not as good as K390).
2) Great toughness--I'd honestly put it on par with 3V, even though I know that's not the general consensus (and my opinion is very unscientific)
3) Corrosion resistance I have no real feedback on. Mine is DLC and I live in a desert, so it's been no problem. The vast majority of my knives never get any visible rust--it only happens if I push them for it a bit.

For a big knife where toughness is a requirement, but I still want good edge holding, V4E is a real winner. I think that makes it a great choice for the Providence Bowie (4V is virtually the same steel). I suspect that's also why it's so popular in those blade sports competitions.

I've never really seen a need for those properties in most folders, but the Manix 2 XL is so beefy that I'd really like to see it in V4E. For that matter, I'd also like to see the Military, and maybe the Police, in this steel.

edit to add: This is also why I would prefer s90v (which I own in the XL) to s110v in this platform. I've found s110v lacks toughness when compared to s90v, but has better wear resistance. For a small folder, I prefer s110v, but as the blade size increases (and with it my own likelihood of torquing too hard on the knife) toughness becomes more important to me. I've been very interested to find several tasks where s90v and M390 (and V4e) have come through intact (or in the case of s90v rolled), but my s110v Manix (which I carry a lot) has chipped.

[TomAiello]

i don’t have an opinion here, but i would like to. is there a thread or a graphic somewhere that ranks steels by different attributes, such as toughness, edge retention, and corrosion resistance? it would be really helpful to have something like that consolidated into one place.

There are lots of them. But they are all very subjective. Larrin's article on the other articles about blade steel is a great place to start diving into that, if you want to.

[steelcity16]

I went in and changed my votes to only the top 4 on the list. I took 52100 off because I already have a Manix in DLC 52100. Same thing for M4 (already have a DLC M4 Manix), plus after watching the video from DBH on M4 vs Rex45, I would much rather have the performance that Rex45 exhibited. Took off Maxamet as well because as much as I want another Maxamet blade, I would rather have it in the Para 3 or the Military. I still would *maybe* buy these 3 depending on if they were DLC coated, what the G10 color was, and what the price was, but the 1st 4 on the list I would 100% buy.

[emanuel]

I wish there was a permanent Cruwear version.

[Joris Mo]

Sounds good to me in Cruwear (or 3V/4V) but I've already got one and don't use it that much so I wouldn't buy a new one just for a cool steel.
Very nice knife btw but I often use a smaller folder and/or take a fixed blade when this size.
Could well be a favorite edc if I lived outdoors and would mainly carry folders.

[crazywednesday]

Of course, a couple hours after I open my mouth cruwear takes the lead. Im surprised there isnt more heavy/large knives made of cruwear.

I agree. Cruwear seems like the natural choice for the Manix XL, Shaman, upcoming Native Chief, Military, etc. Really all of the Golden models would be great with it. I would love to see Cruwear (or V4E or 4V) designated as a production steel for golden models the way S110V was and Maxamet was supposed to be.

Since Maxamet now seems unlikely to hit full production perhaps there is room in the lineup for Cruwear to take its spot as a full production steel? I imagine it would do better than Maxamet as a production steel with the much lower price point, reputation for being a tough hard use steel, surprisingly high stain resistance, and cult-luke following (CRUWEAR NATION!!). Id love to see DLC as an option for production Cruwear blades as well. Especially with dark grey G10.

I wonder what deters Spyderco from production run Cruwear. Does the knife market consider toughness one of the least desirable characteristics?

[steelcity16]

I wonder what deters Spyderco from production run Cruwear. Does the knife market consider toughness one of the least desirable characteristics?

There are a lot of vocal dissenters every time someone asks for a "tough" steel in a folder. I don't know why we can't all enjoy what we enjoy and if there is a big enough demand for Cruwear or 4V or 3V then let those people get what they want, let Spyderco and dealers make some money off us, and save your money for the next S90V sprint. :D

[vivi]

Of course, a couple hours after I open my mouth cruwear takes the lead. Im surprised there isnt more heavy/large knives made of cruwear.

I agree. Cruwear seems like the natural choice for the Manix XL, Shaman, upcoming Native Chief, Military, etc. Really all of the Golden models would be great with it. I would love to see Cruwear (or V4E or 4V) designated as a production steel for golden models the way S110V was and Maxamet was supposed to be.

Since Maxamet now seems unlikely to hit full production perhaps there is room in the lineup for Cruwear to take its spot as a full production steel? I imagine it would do better than Maxamet as a production steel with the much lower price point, reputation for being a tough hard use steel, surprisingly high stain resistance, and cult-luke following (CRUWEAR NATION!!). Id love to see DLC as an option for production Cruwear blades as well. Especially with dark grey G10.

I wonder what deters Spyderco from production run Cruwear. Does the knife market consider toughness one of the least desirable characteristics?

I'd like everyone to be able to buy any Spyderco they want in whichever steel they want.

That being said I'm confused by people that want tough steels in folders for the purpose of additional toughness as opposed to other properties they find desirable.

I take the standard steels thinner than anyone else I see reprofiling and regrinding Spydercos, and use them for things other classify as straight up abuse, like chopping through branches with an S30V folder and batoning a ZDP Endura.

I've never had an issue with chipping in any steel save for one defective Opinel with a faulty heat treat that was replaced by the manufacturer. I've cut shingles and drywall and aluminum siding and power cables and all sorts of dumb things with everything from 420C to S90V.

Would you chop wood and baton fatwood chunks with a 3V Manix XL? I do that with my S30V versions.

So when someone says they want a tougher steel in a folder, for toughness' sake, it makes me curious what they do with their knives. Just like if someone said they want something more corrosion resistant than a Pacific Salt, I'd wonder why.

None of this is to imply no one uses their knives harder than me, or that anyone needs to justify their knife preferences to me.

I think Spyderco is the only company that uses stainless steels more frequently in fixed blades than folders. Doesn't make sense to me, but they're selling well so apparently Spyderco knows something about the market that I'm oblivious to :)

[Wanimator]

I'm in the same boat as you vivi. Minus the abuse. Lol

[steelcity16]

How has there still not been a new Manix XL yet? :confused: I think at this point BHQ is our best bet...they seem to be going through the whole Golden lineup. I'll grab a Jade/DLC M4 for sure!

I think St. Nick's Knives has the opportunity to knock it out of the park with their Red G10/DLC 4V combo as well. Count me in for this one!

[Doeswhateveraspidercan]

Voted Cruwear I have been edc'ing my Cruwear Millie since last week using it on everything and it still shows no change in the factory blade. True I had to use some Alcohol to wipe tape gunk off of the blade but no touch ups needed.

A coworker just came to me needing a piece of long cardboard sliced in half for her project and this darn Cruewear just push cut through it like a dream. 4 feet of single walled cardboard perfect control ultra smooth pushcutting power, Gawd but I luv this steel.

[ladybug93]

i would vote for lc200n today, but it's not an option in the poll.

[Mattysc42]

While I’m not against a sprint in cruwear or 3v, they don’t offer anything s30v doesn’t for me. I’d prefer to see a sprint in something more wear resistant first, like 4v, m4, or an a11 class steel.

[steelcity16]

While I’m not against a sprint in cruwear or 3v, they don’t offer anything s30v doesn’t for me. I’d prefer to see a sprint in something more wear resistant first, like 4v, m4, or an a11 class steel.

Yes, while I would love one in Cruwear or 3V, 4V may well be a better compromise to satisfy both the tougher steel crowd as well as the wear resistance crowd. A BHQ M4 exclusive should meet this demand as well. C'mon BHQ and St. Nicks! Make this happen! :D

[Doeswhateveraspidercan]

While I’m not against a sprint in cruwear or 3v, they don’t offer anything s30v doesn’t for me. I’d prefer to see a sprint in something more wear resistant first, like 4v, m4, or an a11 class steel.

Hmmm this has not been my experience at all.

M4 more wear resistant than Cruwear? S30V in the same class as Cruwear? Not in the brand New Militaries I have had each with factory fresh blades.

So far Cruwear is outlasting both of those steels and neither of them were anywhere near as as sharp. The next closest I have noticed to Cruwear has been CTS-XHP followed by M4.

It would be neat to explore 4V from some of the recent posts I have read.

[Albatross]

I'd love to see a Manix XL and a Military in Maxamet. I'd also like to see a Manix XL in Rex 45.

[Mattysc42]

While I’m not against a sprint in cruwear or 3v, they don’t offer anything s30v doesn’t for me. I’d prefer to see a sprint in something more wear resistant first, like 4v, m4, or an a11 class steel.

Hmmm this has not been my experience at all.

M4 more wear resistant than Cruwear? S30V in the same class as Cruwear? Not in the brand New Militaries I have had each with factory fresh blades.

So far Cruwear is outlasting both of those steels and neither of them were anywhere near as as sharp. The next closest I have noticed to Cruwear has been CTS-XHP followed by M4.

It would be neat to explore 4V from some of the recent posts I have read.

Are you sure you’re sharpening them properly without leaving a negative burr? S30v, xhp and cruwear are all nearly identical when cutting gritty abrasives when fully apexed, though cruwear and xhp are easier to debur. None of them will cut more than a few hundred feet of gritty industrial cardboard before being completely dull, and last less than an hour of work for me. M4 lasts around 4.5 hours, and 10v and zdp last a day, and maxamet lasts 2. All at 15dps, and treetopping sharp to start.

[Wartstein]

I just have (too) basic knowledge concerning more "fancy" steels and mostly only experience with quite common ones (VG10, S30V, 154CM, 1095 and so on), so I voted for M390 and Cruwear, but based just on "hearsay" to be honest.

I am fine with S30V in almost any folder I guess.
What I'd REALLY like to see was a lightweight version of the Manix XL, similar to the FRCP model of the regular Manix...

In the existing Manix XL I would like to see a Micarta/stonewashed version.

Concerning pocket clip placement: Actually I prefer shallow (as in NOT DEEP) carry in longer folders, so I am totally fine with the current placement. Makes the knife feel like a shorter one in pocket and better accesable. Imho advantageous, as long as you don't have to conceil the knife (and thank god where I live I still can carry legally almost whatever I choose to).

[steelcity16]

While I’m not against a sprint in cruwear or 3v, they don’t offer anything s30v doesn’t for me. I’d prefer to see a sprint in something more wear resistant first, like 4v, m4, or an a11 class steel.

Hmmm this has not been my experience at all.

M4 more wear resistant than Cruwear? S30V in the same class as Cruwear? Not in the brand New Militaries I have had each with factory fresh blades.

So far Cruwear is outlasting both of those steels and neither of them were anywhere near as as sharp. The next closest I have noticed to Cruwear has been CTS-XHP followed by M4.

It would be neat to explore 4V from some of the recent posts I have read.

Are you sure you’re sharpening them properly without leaving a negative burr? S30v, xhp and cruwear are all nearly identical when cutting gritty abrasives when fully apexed, though cruwear and xhp are easier to debur. None of them will cut more than a few hundred feet of gritty industrial cardboard before being completely dull, and last less than an hour of work for me. M4 lasts around 4.5 hours, and 10v and zdp last a day, and maxamet lasts 2. All at 15dps, and treetopping sharp to start.

Yeah, M4 should be lasting well beyond Cruwear and S30V in edge retention. Otherwise M4 should be banished to the halls of irrelevance in a folder because Cruwear is tougher, easier to sharpen, and much more corrosion resistant. Wear resistance is the only thing it has over Cruwear.