Casual Sage 5 Lightweight reveal

[sal]

Hi Ctirikard,

Welcome to our forum.

sal

[sal]

Hi Pinepig,

FRN Sage offers options for color and steel. We'll see what happens?

sal

[SpyderEdgeForever]

sal, would the grind be a full flat on the Sage Light Weight?

[sal]

Probably, at least for the first run.

sal

[Wartstein]

I can definately appreciate that some people like it. And I understand why they use it. I just am not a fan. I dont mind an extra ounce of weight or maybe a little more that liners will add. I carry a manix every day. The g10 version so I dont mind the weight. In the summer in shorts I carry my sage 5 or my bugout. Both are fine examples of lighter weight models and the bugout is a perfect example of a great lock with minimal liners and one of the lightest weights for a 3 inch knife in existence. So you dont need a backlock for thin stock knives. Stock on the bugout is .09". Even the new benchmade freek has no liners and still uses the axis lock and that's a pretty large knife. I'm the opposite of you I suppose. I love the pm2 the way it is and the sage and the manix. Also the new CL on the smock is fantastic. I love the direction spyderco is headed with the cl in the new para 3 and the sage 5. The ease of use is important to me. Less important than strength even though the cbbl and compression lock are probably just as strong as the LB and easier to use quickly. The manix 2 lw is linerless as well with a cbbl and fairly thin stock at .125 and this could be made thinner just by scaling down the size of the lock or simply just by using thicker washers like the sage 5. I'd really love to see the native 5 with a compression lock or a cbbl. That is the knife I'm truly hoping for one day. As well as a native 5 design in a fixed blade model. But to each their own and I know spyderco cant please us all even though it looks as if they do try. And I'm grateful for that.

Hi ctrikard,

These are good points and I really like that you have thought-through opinions on knives and don´t shy away to share and discuss those (and I mean it!) - that is what keeps this forum running and interesting!
It´s just that the way your words in your previous post were put was a little hard to swallow for a backlock-guy like me... but I´ll admit, I am biased, I somehow "grew up" with backlocks and am very accostumed to them.

And I am open to learn about and enjoy other kind of locks! For example, believe it or not, though beeing into Spyderco for quite some time, only recently I got my first comp. lock knife that I really keep, a PM2 gifted to me by a very kind forum member. And what can I say... though still I am prefering a backlock overall, the compression lock impressed me much more than I would have thought, I like it a lot and think it is an ingenious design!

I´d also like to see that many more Spyderco knives would come in a variety of locks, so that everone could choose the version he/she likes the best (like in the Sage series, or partly in the Lil Native). But of course and totally comprehensible Spyderco as a company can´t do this.

And I am with you in thinking that literally any lock Spyderco offers is by far strong enough for the use one should put a folder through.

On thinness: I think, if one would aim to design the thinnest folder possible, this model would have to feature a backlock. But sure a knife can get just "thin enough" with other kinds of locks too.

Last point: Benchmades axxis lock is fine and fun to play with, but I have to say: Those omega-springs DO break eventually and you have to put in new ones (I know that from experience). No problem though, since Benchmade does send you replacaments for free, even to Europe

[rabbitanarchy14]

[/quote]
I don't understand why anyone would prefer a backlock when there are so many better options available now days. The lockback knives should be extinct. They're difficult to use. Hurt your fingers especially on the chap because it's so thin. And they're just old and outdated and theres really no reason or excuse to use them now days other than for manufacturers to save themselves money during production. I would be over the moon if spyderco and every knife manufacturer on the planet done away completely with the backlocks. So many spydercos that I would love to own but will never own because of those terrible locks. I dont mean any offense to anyone who likes them or spyderco but they really are ridiculous. And unnecessary. People claim that they're stronger locks but who needs a folding knife with a lock that strong? What are you doing with it? Nothing that requires a lock that takes 1000 pounds of force to fail. And if you are then you're doing it wrong. Buy a fixed blade. I just hope they use xhp or something cheaper for the lw sage. To keep the cost lower. Because if they're gonna charge us 120 dollars for a lw sage 5 with s30v then I guess theres really no point in even making it because the sage 5 is already light. It only weighs 3 ounces. So I wouldn't see the point in making a lw just for a few dollars less. Hopefully itll be right below 100 dollars with xhp just like the chapparal.
[/quote]

i am right there with you mate i really am. you could have been nicer about it seeing as how it is our opinion not actual fact. yes i hate back locks all together. having to rearrange my knife so much just to use one hand open and close is not for me. and if they did have more of the better locks in more of the popular knives they make(delica, df, native) then i would own them in cbbl or liner lock or compression lock. i do understand some ppl like them but they are not selling to just as many ppl that cant stand backlocks at all.

this knife i am really looking forward to and no it is absolutely not a lw, it is an frn model. really really really wish everyone would stop calling them the lightweights when they are just a scale swap normally to frn. so it would be a sage 5 frn and that is the knife i am really looking forward to.

[curlyhairedboy]

I've gotta say that lockbacks are imo up there in reliability next to the comp lock. I'll take either of those over most frame locks.

If we're looking at lock features, we could rank the various locks in all sorts of ways.

Safety? lockback, axis, CBBL, and compression locks all keep your hands away from the path of the closing blade. That's huge.

Fidgetability? The CBBL and lockback don't measure up too well here, they're very deliberate in deployment.

Strength? liner and frame are at the lower end.

The comp lock remains my favorite since it combines strength, safety, and fidgetability. Glad to see the new LWs carrying it over.

[youmakemehole]

Backlocks are not worthless, they are arguably the strongest and most reliable locking mechanisms by a long margin when it comes to folding knives. There's a reason they are still around, and if you took out factors such as fidgetability, ease of opening, fingers in blade path, etc, and only just wanted what was the best lock for what a lock is designed to do - hold the blade in place - the backlock is king.

[sparky2016]

Nice video, thanks.

Obviously each to their own. But I prefer the backlock
- smoother feel / grip along the back - no indent
- easier to release, in the sense that it's not a precise movement to unlock. Just put a fat finger on top and press.

Great to have options.

[steelcity16]

Welcome to the forum ctrikard.

I enjoy variety and most locks, but after a lifetime of using all different kinds, I've come full circle to appreciate the elegant simplicity and user friendly nature of a back lock. It also allows for a thin and linerless knife, which along with the self close bias are some of the reasons people would like to see this.

Not to mention the fact that they're truly ambidextrous, easy to operate one-handed (if you know how to do it), and strong. The statement that manufacturers use them to save themselves money is not necessarily true, at least in Spyderco's case. From what Sal has said a well-executed back-lock is harder to implement than most people think.

Yeah, hard to argue that the Native 5 (G10 or LW) or Chap LW would be better with any other locks. Both of these models are absolute perfection (except Id prefer a wire clip on the native...lol) in their current forms. Unbelievablely well executed with seriously incredible tolerances and finish on a mass produced knife. The Chap LW is slick as glass and locks up perfectly.

I've bought, tried, and sold probably close to 100 different Spyderco models in search of my favorites and the 7 I have left are ALL backlocks. My next two purchases are probably going to be backlocks as well. I love the Manix, Para 3, Military and Lil Native Comp Lock and will probably own them all again soon (next good exclusive), but I would be more than content with my Chap LW, Natives, Dragonfly, Pac Salts, and Spyderhawk.

[Marulaghost]

Probably, at least for the first run.

sal

I am ready to bring on the bombardment of questions this all brings up.

Sounds like the sage lw is going a different route than the sages 1-5, with all the differing locks.
Would this be considered a different product line in comparison to the other sages? This wouldn't be considered a sage 6 would it?
Is there even another lock type that could work for the sage series?
I remember the chapparral line being all about the scale material. Would this option of different frn colors and blade steels for the sage lw work for the chap lw?

[ctrikard]

I don't understand why anyone would prefer a backlock when there are so many better options available now days. The lockback knives should be extinct. They're difficult to use. Hurt your fingers especially on the chap because it's so thin. And they're just old and outdated and theres really no reason or excuse to use them now days other than for manufacturers to save themselves money during production. I would be over the moon if spyderco and every knife manufacturer on the planet done away completely with the backlocks. So many spydercos that I would love to own but will never own because of those terrible locks. I dont mean any offense to anyone who likes them or spyderco but they really are ridiculous. And unnecessary. People claim that they're stronger locks but who needs a folding knife with a lock that strong? What are you doing with it? Nothing that requires a lock that takes 1000 pounds of force to fail. And if you are then you're doing it wrong. Buy a fixed blade. I just hope they use xhp or something cheaper for the lw sage. To keep the cost lower. Because if they're gonna charge us 120 dollars for a lw sage 5 with s30v then I guess theres really no point in even making it because the sage 5 is already light. It only weighs 3 ounces. So I wouldn't see the point in making a lw just for a few dollars less. Hopefully itll be right below 100 dollars with xhp just like the chapparal.
[/quote]

i am right there with you mate i really am. you could have been nicer about it seeing as how it is our opinion not actual fact. yes i hate back locks all together. having to rearrange my knife so much just to use one hand open and close is not for me. and if they did have more of the better locks in more of the popular knives they make(delica, df, native) then i would own them in cbbl or liner lock or compression lock. i do understand some ppl like them but they are not selling to just as many ppl that cant stand backlocks at all.

this knife i am really looking forward to and no it is absolutely not a lw, it is an frn model. really really really wish everyone would stop calling them the lightweights when they are just a scale swap normally to frn. so it would be a sage 5 frn and that is the knife i am really looking forward to.
[/quote]

Sorry if that came off as rude. That was not my intention. If you guys enjoy them. Then I'm happy they make them for you. Just not my thing. I'm actually thinking about giving the native 5 another try since the salt version came out. Although I would still be over the moon if they decided to offer the native with a compression lock. sort of like the did several locks for the lil native. I can always dream :).

[jimmd]

Hi Pinepig,

FRN Sage offers options for color and steel. We'll see what happens?

sal

What?! Great! The Sage 5 is close to perfect as it is. And now lighter weight plus color and steel options? Thanks!

[SpyderEdgeForever]

sal I think this Sage Light Weight is beautiful, great engineering, and exquisite. I for one am thankful for it.

[Wartstein]

sal I think this Sage Light Weight is beautiful, great engineering, and exquisite. I for one am thankful for it.

Hi SEF, you are totally right! Looked at it in the new Reveal, if I´d want another small knife right now I´d take the Sage LW over the Para 3 LW no doubt.

Even like the compression lock in that model (comp. lock is an ingenious design in principle anyways, but I still prefer a backlock or maybe CBBL. Funny thing is: The smaller the knife, the more I like a comp lock, the bigger and sturdier the knife, the more I want a backlock. Shaman should absolutely be a backlock knife imho for example).