LC200N, just for Salt series, or beyond?

[Catamount123]

It seems clear that Spyderco is moving towards replacing H1 with LC200N in Salt series knives. There are also some requests for LC200N in non Salt models. Do you think they should only offer it in the Salt series, or expand into the regular line? Do you think it should replace S30V, at least on some models, or just be offered as an alternative?

[jdw]

I would still love to see a LC200N Military with both a PE and SE blade offered AND with absolutely anything but yellow scales.

[Evil D]

I could see there being some confusion and disappointment if other hardware rusted on a knife that isn't a "salt" but has a steel that's known to be rust proof. Wouldn't be Spyderco's fault but you know how people are. I figure if they can make the Caribbean a Salt then making a Military or Para 2 or other similarly constructed model a Salt isn't much of a leap.

[Sumdumguy]

I could see there being some confusion and disappointment if other hardware rusted on a knife that isn't a "salt" but has a steel that's known to be rust proof. Wouldn't be Spyderco's fault but you know how people are. I figure if they can make the Caribbean a Salt then making a Military or Para 2 or other similarly constructed model a Salt isn't much of a leap.

I'm with you on this, if it's LC200N then all the hardware should follow suit(or be substituted for titanium).

[steelcity16]

I could see there being some confusion and disappointment if other hardware rusted on a knife that isn't a "salt" but has a steel that's known to be rust proof. Wouldn't be Spyderco's fault but you know how people are. I figure if they can make the Caribbean a Salt then making a Military or Para 2 or other similarly constructed model a Salt isn't much of a leap.

I'm with you on this, if it's LC200N then all the hardware should follow suit(or be substituted for titanium).

Agree with all comments!

Yes, I would think a G10 Millie Salt should be doable since they did a G10 Caribbean.

I would love a PE LC200N G10 Millie Salt, but I REALLY want a serrated H1 G10 Millie Salt! Ideally both.

Yes, I would think (and hope) LC200N and H1 would be exclusive to Salt knives. (although I dont think the Never Summer LC200N Native exclusive was a full Salt model). I agree some people would be upset buying an LC200N blade for its corrosion resistance only to have rusted hardware.

[Zatx]

I could see there being some confusion and disappointment if other hardware rusted on a knife that isn't a "salt" but has a steel that's known to be rust proof. Wouldn't be Spyderco's fault but you know how people are. I figure if they can make the Caribbean a Salt then making a Military or Para 2 or other similarly constructed model a Salt isn't much of a leap.

I've heard this argument and even held this position myself, but the more I have thought about it, the less I support it now. For the most part, most of our knives are currently made with "stainless" steels and we aren't up in arms when a scale screw gets some rust on it. This is basically the same thing faced by knife makers when they transitioned from high carbon steels to stainless and yet here we are with mostly stainless steel pocket knives. In other words, there is a hypothetical argument against using LC200N more prevalently, but it would most likely never come to fruition. Much ado about nothing...

Personally, I would like to see Spyderco replace CPM S30V with LC200N because I would only worry about a screw or something getting rust on it rather than the expensive blade. Nearly every PM2 I've ever owned has gotten some corrosion on the blade and yet I've only had one that had any rust on a screw or scale. LC200N would eliminate this problem, and frankly, I've found that it outperforms CPM S30V in every regard.

[cycleguy]

I find myself more curious about BD1N as a base line steel than LC200N. Although I haven't had opportunity with it, everything I'm reading about it seems to be checking all the boxes favorably for a general all around steel guy like me. If Salt H1 models were LC200N, I'd probably own a couple of the fixed blades, and if the Delica was offered in LC200N i'd probably buy one as I buy most everything FRN Delica. Note that I am not a salt water/corrosive environs guy so don't have the need for it as much as some others. I had one opportunity cutting corrugated cardboard with LC200N and thought it dulled quicker than I anticipated so felt it to be very average at best in this regard (say 154CM ish). There may be more to this than just the steel, and a sample of one may not provide accurate results, but my initial impression was to stay with the current steel offerings and keep the LC200N to the salt series as an upgrade from H1. However, I suspect there are many that would love to have a certain favorite folder in LC200N - so maybe as sprints and exclusives. I noticed the LC200N mule stayed around for a while at retail, so appears not as strong as a following as some other steels...???

CG

[Deadboxhero]

What edge finish and angle did you use on the Lc200n with the cardboard?

I find myself more curious about BD1N as a base line steel than LC200N. Although I haven't had opportunity with it, everything I'm reading about it seems to be checking all the boxes favorably for a general all around steel guy like me. If Salt H1 models were LC200N, I'd probably own a couple of the fixed blades, and if the Delica was offered in LC200N i'd probably buy one as I buy most everything FRN Delica. Note that I am not a salt water/corrosive environs guy so don't have the need for it as much as some others. I had one opportunity cutting corrugated cardboard with LC200N and thought it dulled quicker than I anticipated so felt it to be very average at best in this regard (say 154CM ish). There may be more to this than just the steel, and a sample of one may not provide accurate results, but my initial impression was to stay with the current steel offerings and keep the LC200N to the salt series as an upgrade from H1. However, I suspect there are many that would love to have a certain favorite folder in LC200N - so maybe as sprints and exclusives. I noticed the LC200N mule stayed around for a while at retail, so appears not as strong as a following as some other steels...???

CG

[cycleguy]

Factory edge mule.

CG

[vivi]

Factory edge mule.

CG

I've yet to try a blade steel that didn't show superior sharpness and edge holding after removing the factory edge. You might see better results after some sharpenings (if you still have it).

[Deadboxhero]

Nah, slap a crispy 1000 grit stone edge on that baby. Get it treetoping hair off the stone.

I never test factory edges, they're never as good as a fresh stone edge with a crisp apex, no burr. (My opinion) also, Treetoping hair is a side effect of a true apex.


If you find yourself using more of a pushing through the cardboard rather than drawing the edge when cutting go higher in finish(3k-8k) and the edge will side through the cardboard with less resistance but less aggressive

It you find yourself draw cutting, go toothy, more aggressive action when slicing. (325-400)

I find the steel works best for me with 800-1000.
If it had more Nitrides it would synergize a toothy finish better, if it was harder then 59-60rc it would support a smoother polished apex better.

So I feel the 800-1000 was the sweet spot which is what I prefer anyways.

The really advantage to the steel is the stability. Drop it down to 12dps if you want it to perform better at some trade off of course. Very enjoyable with low angles. Not as prone to microchipping at low angles thanks to the fine nitrogen structures in the matrix.

I think everyone just wishes it could be harder then it would probably be the top steel. Seems capped at 60rc

Factory edge mule.

CG

[cycleguy]

Care to make a recommendation for edge angle and level of grit? First go at it I'd probably be 30 degree edge with no micro bevel and probably work to 1200 grit with stones and then finish with 4000 grit lapping film on glass plate that I've started playing with.

CG

[Deadboxhero]

What system? What stones?

Care to make a recommendation for edge angle and level of grit? First go at it I'd probably be 30 degree edge with no micro bevel and probably work to 1200 grit with stones and then finish with 4000 grit lapping film on glass plate that I've started playing with.

CG

[cycleguy]

OK, someone was typing as I was typing and beat me to it. Thanks for the input.

It was a cardboard project that required a lot of tip work, not something I usually do. Built a wreath storage box after the holiday. Swung 36" diameter circles with a beam compass on some heavy stock 1/4" thick cardboard then very precisely stayed on the line with my cuts only cutting partially thru and making multiple passes (I think it was three) until the cut was thru. Also wanted to have very square edges to butt the cardboard sides to. Experimented with multiple knives while doing it. The LC200N was going great, it just didn't last. Had some s30v and a2 in fixed blades but the blade stock was too thick for the precision I was looking for. Finished up with vg10 and s90v ffg folders.

CG

[cycleguy]

For this one, WE 100 to 1500 diamond. Not certain I care to go past 15 per side... haven't done that yet.

CG

[JD Spydo]

With as good of results as LC200N is already known for I'm wondering how much longer H-1 will earn it's keep. If I have a selection in either edge type I'm already to the point to where I would pick LC200N almost every time and on any model.

Albeit I bet there are more great nitrogen based steels coming down the pipeline for cutlery uses. Oh don't get me wrong because there are still about a dozen Salt Series models in H-1 I would still trade for in the right circumstance but in the long haul I'll be gravitating more toward LC200N.

[Bill1170]

We still don’t know how the SE performance of LC200N compares with SE H-1, do we? Plain edge performance is well understood.

[Tommie85]

We still don’t know how the SE performance of LC200N compares with SE H-1, do we? Plain edge performance is well understood.

Eric told us today that H1 is the ‘better’ steel (edge retention wise) in SE and LC200 is better in plain.

[cycleguy]

Factory edge mule.

CG

I've yet to try a blade steel that didn't show superior sharpness and edge holding after removing the factory edge. You might see better results after some sharpenings (if you still have it).

Errr... I wasn't aware of this. I spent some time searching the inet and hopefully learning reason(s) as to why this is. Came across some indicating multiple sharpenings required before achieving maximum performance from the steel. This is good to know because I put the purchase of a Caribbean PE on hold after the initial LC200N experience. (I, like the others, do like seeing the high corrosion resistance quality carried throughout the entire knife i.e. a chain is only as strong as its weakest link).

I wasn't finding much info on edge bevels and grit levels for intended use(s) specific to LC200N so I'll proceed with my general 30 degree edge with a grit level of 800/1000 to start. I also noticed there is a wide range in what people are reporting with edge retention regarding this steel so not able to suggest where the consensus might be.

CG

[Bill1170]

We still don’t know how the SE performance of LC200N compares with SE H-1, do we? Plain edge performance is well understood.

Eric told us today that H1 is the ‘better’ steel (edge retention wise) in SE and LC200 is better in plain.

Thank you! It is good to have this confirmed by a knowledgeable source.