How tough is Cruwear?

[TomAiello]

Jokes aside wear resistance and toughness below are from manufacturer data, typical HRC is from me, compiling Ankerson Spyderco data or similar.

I salute your efforts, but how does this chart show correlation? Are they only Spyderco's heat-treat?

Whatever it shows, the chart actually lines up pretty well to my real world (subjective) observations on toughness v. wear resistance.

[JacksonKnives]

... let me add here that I picked HRC data specific to Spyderco if available (for example...

Also, wear resistance and toughness come from the manufacturer data-sheets (e.g., Crucible), which are of course also HRC dependent, and - since marketing material - might be optimistic.

In my opinion, the biggest weakness of the data is that they are geometry-independent. And finally, what type of toughness metric did the OP refer to ? Blade breaking, chipping vs. rolling, CATRA, .... For example, my 4V Manix 2 is in some ways "tougher" than my Cruwear one, but the data above show the opposite.

Still, as long as the sources are clear, I feel data is still better than hear-say "this guy said Cruwear in his PM3 is so much better than M4 in my Military, because M4 is so yesterday, etc.".

Cheers :)

Roland.

OK, glad to see that.
I agree 100% about the geometry thing, though it's often easy enough to change geometry on a factory-made blade, but not easy to change hardness/toughness. I mostly care about super-thin blades, so I'm a bit jaded when it comes to wear-resistant steels. I want maximum hardness and good toughness; so many steels are advertised as "tough", and then I find out that they're tough because the maker is tempering them to the tougher side of the spectrum and giving up some available hardness. So I don't really care what the spec sheet lists as attainable toughness, I want to know if you can push it past HRC 63 and if it can still be tougher than ZDP would be at the same hardness. (By which I mean, edge stable at ~11DPS and no shattering blades when I drop them on the floor. That's all I really want.)

[Catamount123]

Say I'm cutting with a PM2 and accidentally bang it into metal, or drop it. how much difference is there in the likelihood of, or degree of, damage to the edge or tip, with a CPM Cruwear blade vs. one in S30V?

[blueblur]

Don't forget that there is both a conventional version of CruWear and also a CPM version. And there are PM versions made by other companies including Z-Wear and PD1. The PM version is at least twice as tough. And don't pay attention to the BladeHQ ratings.

Are any knives currently being produced with non-PM Cruwear (by whatever name)?

I had sort of thought that all the knife manufacturers had gone over to PM Cruwear.

From what I have read, I don’t believe ingot cruwear is manufactured anymore.

[Pelagic]

Say I'm cutting with a PM2 and accidentally bang it into metal, or drop it. how much difference is there in the likelihood of, or degree of, damage to the edge or tip, with a CPM Cruwear blade vs. one in S30V?

In my opinion, cruwear at 61hrc would probably be less likely to chip than s30v at 59hrc, certainly at 60. I've done some experiments with cruwear and the edge seems to always blunt/roll instead of chip.

[Larrin]

Don't forget that there is both a conventional version of CruWear and also a CPM version. And there are PM versions made by other companies including Z-Wear and PD1. The PM version is at least twice as tough. And don't pay attention to the BladeHQ ratings.

Are any knives currently being produced with non-PM Cruwear (by whatever name)?

I had sort of thought that all the knife manufacturers had gone over to PM Cruwear.

I don’t know what production knives may or may not be produced in conventional CruWear. But someone linked to my site for toughness numbers on CruWear. I have tested the conventional version so when it says “CruWear” it means CruWear. I have tested the PM version as Z-Wear so that’s the number one should look at if the CPM version is of interest to you. And when people are pulling out datasheets to compare toughness there will be both a conventional and CPM version with different values. For those reasons I brought up the difference. And for the same reasons that we differentiate between D2 and CPM D2 it would be best to refer to it as CPM CruWear but that ship has sailed long ago on this forum and I don’t have the power to change anyone’s mind.

[SpyderEdgeForever]

When will we have stainless CruWear?

[The Mastiff]

When will we have stainless CruWear?

? Only when they change the definition of stainless steels to include 8% chrome tool steels. I don't see that happening any time soon.

Joe

[SpyderEdgeForever]

When will we have stainless CruWear?

? Only when they change the definition of stainless steels to include 8% chrome tool steels. I don't see that happening any time soon.

Joe

http://www.matweb.com/search/datasheett ... 8770fb1197


Stainless Tool Steel.

[Pelagic]

When will we have stainless CruWear?

? Only when they change the definition of stainless steels to include 8% chrome tool steels. I don't see that happening any time soon.

Joe

http://www.matweb.com/search/datasheett ... 8770fb1197


Stainless Tool Steel.

That steel is 14% chromium. Usually "tool steel" refers to something low chromium (with exceptions I'm sure). I've always been curious about Molybdenum though. I wonder how Rex 20 (over 10% Molybdenum) would be, or something similar with more carbon or less carbide formers that aren't Molybdenum.

[Larrin]

Almost all of the stainless knife steels could be called “stainless tool steels.” That doesn’t change the stain resistance required for being stainless.

[jpm2]

How tough is mild steel, gold, lead, etc...? meaningless without the other factors.
In my experience, 3v/cruwear/zwear rolls easy at ~60hrc, chips easy at ~62 hrc. This alloy family seems to have no sweet spot transition window where it resists both rolling and chipping reasonably well.

[The Mastiff]

I wonder how Rex 20 (over 10% Molybdenum) would be, or something similar with more carbon or less carbide formers that aren't Molybdenum.

I had a knife in Rex 20. One knife isn't enough to tell me all about the steel I want to know but it told me it had less corrosion resistance than O1 and microchipped pretty easily in comparison to 10V and even S110V the way I have had knives in those steels. It isn't my first choice for a high performing knife steel. As I understand it the selling point is it has great red hardness without cobalt being present for instances where that is important but it wasn't all that great in the one knife I had. It's always possible it was the way the knife was prepared and not the steel. It was one of the few thousand dollar customs I bought in my before retirement days.

Joe

[youmakemehole]

How tough is mild steel, gold, lead, etc...? meaningless without the other factors.
In my experience, 3v/cruwear/zwear rolls easy at ~60hrc, chips easy at ~62 hrc. This alloy family seems to have no sweet spot transition window where it resists both rolling and chipping reasonably well.

Could it be that 61 hrc is the sweet spot then? There are a good handful of youtube vicdeos showing 3v/Zwear doing some pretty incredible stuff at right around 60-61 hrc.

https://youtu.be/pmW_AkrErAA

[curlyhairedboy]

Dang. That's fairly impressive!

[blues]

When will we have stainless CruWear?

Now, apparently.

Just happened to be re-reading this thread and thought how appropriate that Larrin's "MagnaCut" seems to have provided the answer to that question.

[Bolster]

Are any knives currently being produced with non-PM Cruwear (by whatever name)?

I had sort of thought that all the knife manufacturers had gone over to PM Cruwear.

Speaking of which: Do you think a Mule will come out in CPM Cruwear? AFAIK, the Cruwear mule (MT12, 2011) was ingot not PM.

[Zive]

Seems unnecessary given Z-Wear will be the next release

[Snacktime]

CPM Cruwear is just as tough as 440c, but has much better edge retention. Really hits the sweet spot for a pocket folder as everyone is use to 440c but doesn't want a butter knife. You end up with a good balance of properties.

I have yet to get an actual Spyderco Cruwear knife, so I am no authority. My PM Zwear had proven itself to hold an edge and not chip. You also have to take lab results and compare them to real world, Larrin gives us great facts to help understand what we are looking at. The next step is the lateral pressure on edges and abrasive resistance to things other than paper. That is why Rex45 and Cruwear are so popular but not at the top of any Larrin charts.

[David45]

Manix 2 Cruwear is much better in the garden toughness-wise than my Manix LW in Maxamet. I have to be very careful with the Maxamet or it’ll chip.