Who's for replacing ZDP-189 with HAP40 laminate in regular production?

[vivi]

I'd vote no.

I actually think ZDP is one of the most underrated steels in the Spyderco line up. I think the ZDP models should stay in ZDP.

I agree.

[TomAiello]

What is it that you guys don't like about ZDP?

I sometimes feel like there's a lot of "flavor of the month" in the knife world, and while I really like some of the recent super steels, ZDP's performance is still really good for me. I feel like it takes a super sharp edge really well and holds that edge as well as most of the other steels I've used. Especially when we're talking about "super sharp" rather than just "working sharp".

[bearfacedkiller]

I think that this sounds like a terrible idea. It is an easy NO from me. Sorry.

What advantages do you find ZDP-189 has over HAP40?

I like the edge it takes more. Don't get me wrong, HAP40 is a solid performer but in my use ZDP out performs it. ZDP doesn't get enough love. ZDP takes a great edge, holds a high level of sharpness well and I just really enjoy the way super hard steels sharpen.

I suppose that on paper HAP40 is tougher but I haven't damaged ZDP yet so that is just bench racing. In my actual use they both exceed my requirement for toughness in a folder. Same goes for corrosion resistance, they both are good enough for me.

[Pelagic]

Someone should make a poll. I am ZDP all the way.

Consider the heat treat. The HAP40 Spyderco is receiving (despite being great) is nothing like their REX45 in regard to heat treat despite being virtually chemically identical. Their ZDP is proven high hardness without being chippy (factory edge aside), a cutting monster. ZDP is also a very unique steel with fine grain structure. It's not just another working edge steel reliant on vanadium. I'd hate to see it go.

[vivi]

I agree, ZDP sharpness very nicely. It grinds more easily than some of the super wear resistant steels while still having amazing edge retention. The high hardness means incredibly little burring when sharpening. Takes a screaming sharp polished edge.

[Sharp Guy]

OP, I'm curious to know why you think ZDP-189 should be replaced?

I have 3 knives with ZDP and 7 knives (IIRC) with HAP-40. I really like them both. If I had to choose between the two I guess it'd be HAP-40 but I don't see why they can't coexist.

[Crux]

They haven't made a ZDP-189 Para 3 yet, so no. But yes to a HAP40 Para 3.

[Catamount123]

OP, I'm curious to know why you think ZDP-189 should be replaced?

Honestly, I’d like to see HAP40 in regular production, and figured Spyderco wouldn’t want to offer 3 different steel choices for all the models.

[Baron Mind]

ZDP is also a very unique steel with fine grain structure. It's not just another working edge steel reliant on vanadium. I'd hate to see it go.

Great point. We should be doing everything we can to preserve the amazing selection of steels we have available to us these days.

And I went back and checked, so far, ZDP-189 performed THEE best in fine edge holding in SuperSteel Steve's edge retention testing on YouTube, as measured by cutting cardboard until the knife no longer shaved arm hair, with 232 ft. Superblue was second with 190, then m4 with 182. https://docs.google.com/document/d/1IA8 ... obilebasic

I can't wait to get my hands on that ZDP Delica tomorrow.

[JacksonKnives]

Unless Spyderco can get the steel far more easily, I really don't personally have any need for a change.
VG-10 is as close to a practical balance as I can imagine for most uses, and the factories seem to like working with it. So for the main line I hope nothing changes.

If I want something that runs closer to the limit of wear resistance (where I'm keeping edges thicker anyhow) the loss in toughness isn't as big of a problem. If I'm worried about toughness and edge stability, there are better categories of steel (for my purposes) anyhow.

I've never seen a micrograph of ZDP, so I'm not sure what people mean by fine grain. I've been able to get polished edges on it, but my experience is that even if it's a more homogeneous structure than some cast steels it's still quite prone to chipping at low angles.

Spyderco has been using and testing this steel possibly even more that Hitachi has, so at this point I'd hate to see all of that optimization put on the shelf.

[Jazz]

Hate the soft steel laminate. I was just wishing to myself yesterday for a ZDP Native FRN foliage green. I’d love it.

[Jazz]

... and why isn’t there a ZDP 189 wharnie Delica?

[Bill1170]

I like ZDP and would hate to see it go away. The fine edge retention is excellent and the rust resistance is much better than carbon steels, despite not being great for a “stainless” steel. A stainless super steel is much more attractive to Joe Consumer than a carbon super steel.

[5-by-5]

What I've seen is Hap40 is better than ZDP-189.

In the real world there is really no one that can discern the difference between ZDP-189 and Hap40

[weeping minora]

What I've seen is Hap40 is better than ZDP-189.

In the real world there is really no one that can discern the difference between ZDP-189 and Hap40

That's a paradoxical statement :confused:?

I haven't used ZDP myself as it sounds like overkill for what I'd actually need out of my knives, though HAP40 has proven to be an above average performer and is right about a perfect blend of sharpenability, exceptionally sharp edge taking with solid edge holding and stability, along with amazing corrosion resistance (in my experience and environment) for it's almost "non-stainless" make-up. That has probably been the most surprising feature of HAP40, to me, is the ability it resists staining. I've had CTS-XHP start to form rust from carry/use and HAP40 still looks as good as the day I took it out of the box after putting it through the same paces. I'd describe it as the older, more muscular brother of VG-10. It's got a bit more character and knows what it does with confidence, though both of these steels really don't excite me too much if I'm honest. Just very solid and reliable blade steels that are likely overkill, yet underpotentialized, for pocket knife carry :)

[anagarika]

I'd vote no.

I actually think ZDP is one of the most underrated steels in the Spyderco line up. I think the ZDP models should stay in ZDP.

Agree

... and why isn’t there a ZDP 189 wharnie Delica?

I’m for ZDP. It’s unique.
I think it was said it’s coming?

https://www.spyderco.com/forumII/viewtopic.php?t=69788

No, it has not ended.

[Bloke]

I'd vote no.

I actually think ZDP is one of the most underrated steels in the Spyderco line up. I think the ZDP models should stay in ZDP.

Agree, 100%!

[Skidoosh]

What if we replace all beef with chicken?

Keep ZDP. I like Hap-40 but I'm not a huge fan of it on my caly 3. Its my go to knife but I would probably switch to ZDP if I had one around.

[Pelagic]

In the real world there is really no one that can discern the difference between ZDP-189 and Hap40

Before use even began, I could easily tell you the difference in sharpening.

[SpyderScout]

HAP 40 doesn't appeal to me. I've never used it but it doesn't appear to be a steel I'm interested in. Not that interested in ZDP either although I have two Spyderco's with ZDP. Cost benefit just isn't their for me with either of these steels.

The BD1N at high rockwell sounds like a winner so I am going to vote for this. (There is Japan kitchen cutlery in this steel so it appears that it is doable).

What is the Japan equal of Bohler M390??? I'll vote for that one too!!!

So I guess my vote is for dumping HAP 40 and ZDP and finding something better.

CG

Certainly a novel take on the subject.