I don't like santokus and serrations !

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Jazz
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Re: I don't like santokus and serrations !

Postby Jazz » Sun Feb 24, 2019 8:59 pm

Funny, my work knives are a 10” chef, wharncliffe parer, and a serrated bread knife. I have a boning knife, but usually prefer the chef.
- best wishes, Jazz.

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Re: I don't like santokus and serrations !

Postby cycleguy » Sun Feb 24, 2019 9:34 pm

Jazz wrote:
Sun Feb 24, 2019 3:25 pm
I find with a longer blade, I can rock better and don’t have to lift the back of the knife as high during this, with thicker foods. I’m sure those Santokus chop just fine, (I like a shorter chef knife for chopping ‘shrooms) so if that’s your style, then great. The chef knife works to lift a pile of cut food just fine.

Like I did say, it was just my opinion. I could have worded it more polite. Sorry, y’all. :o
I made this vid just for fun, so feel free to make fun of me :p . Some cutting at work. The knife here is a brand new, 12” chef knife. I usually use a 10”. I used a shorter chef for mushrooms.

Someone should post a Santoku vid.

https://youtu.be/KnnuIlkkrto
I enjoyed your video and I know others that prefer a chef's knife as well. Do you use the tip on such a long blade or do you use something shorter like a pairing knife?

I'll confess I don't have the speed skills and do mostly push cuts.

CG
So many knives - so little funds!!!

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Jazz
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Re: I don't like santokus and serrations !

Postby Jazz » Sun Feb 24, 2019 9:48 pm

I do use the tip occasionally. Helps a lot with defatting meats. Getting in and under stuff. Sometimes tomato ends, etc.

Speed comes from necessity and just doing it a lot. Just don’t be scared of the knife. Your knuckle guides the blade and keeps it from cutting you. Because of this, you can cut blindfolded. I did a vid of this too. Not really amazing at all to anyone who cuts a lot.
- best wishes, Jazz.

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Re: I don't like santokus and serrations !

Postby JD Spydo » Sun Feb 24, 2019 10:01 pm

Another item to add to this most interesting discussion is that "not all Serrated Knives are created equal". Case & Point:>> Back in 1995 when I got my very first Spyderco knife ever I had asked two of my hunting buddies who made great serrated blades. One suggestion was a German culinary knife company and I now have a 4 of their SE blades. But they very adamantly said that Spyderco had the best serrated blades on the market.

I had only seen Spyderco knives up to that point in major knife magazines and had not yet used one. I went to a Kansas City Gun Show where we had two great knife dealers and got me a stainless handled, full SE, GIN-1 MARINER model. And once I finally used a top quality knife with serrations my mind had completely changed about serrated edges. Because up to that time I had never had a very high quality serrated blade.

It didn't take but about 2 years and I became a serration fanatic>> but mainly bent towards Spyderco's great serrated blades and I haven't looked back and I haven't even considered anything else. I'm just hoping at some point Spyderco will look into developing new serration patterns designed for specific type cutting jobs. Yeah once I tasted Spyderco's super quality serrations it made me a big fan of them.

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Re: I don't like santokus and serrations !

Postby Peter1960 » Mon Feb 25, 2019 1:43 am

Jazz wrote:
Sun Feb 24, 2019 9:48 pm
Speed comes from necessity and just doing it a lot.
Thanks for your impressive video Jazz, I clearly see the difference between you and me - professional versus homemade cooking. You are right, I never could do these jobs in same speed with my Santoku, but my advantage is I'm not in a hurry and do have much smaller quantities and less of space for cooking, I could celebrate the preparing of our meals. I also don't have your your skills and technics.
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Re: I don't like santokus and serrations !

Postby Cambertree » Mon Feb 25, 2019 5:38 am

Nice technique, Jazz. Thanks, your vid was a pleasure to watch.

How do you find the 12" in use compared to the 10" chef knife?

One interesting thing I've observed while watching Japanese using a Santoku knife, is that the 90 degree heel is used for things which a Western trained chef would use the point of a chef knife or paring knife for.

Although, I notice that the Spydie Santoku doesn't seem to be designed with a 90 degree heel - for safety I guess?

I'm not mistaken, the Santoku is a relatively recent (mid 20th century) pattern, which was designed more with the home kitchen user in mind, than for professional environments.

Looking forward to seeing how the OP goes over the next few weeks and months.

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Re: I don't like santokus and serrations !

Postby anagarika » Mon Feb 25, 2019 5:53 am

Jazz,

Fun video and yes, those who professionally cook needs to have the speed, otherwise customers are left waiting too long.

And I say again, fun !! :D :D
Chris :spyder:

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Re: I don't like santokus and serrations !

Postby Cambertree » Mon Feb 25, 2019 6:15 am

I also had a 'road to Damascus' moment with SE Spydies in the last year or so.

I thought I'd give the SE Dragonfly Salt a run, after reading some of the accounts from you SE fanatics here. :p :D :)

I had some 1/2 inch thick kind of synthetic felt sheets which were used as office partitions. I wanted to slice them up to make backing for strops at a community workshop I was volunteering at. (The edges on their chisels were atrocious - my contribution was to reset the correct bevel angle, and sharpen all of them, and teach a few people how to keep them properly sharp.)

I placed the Dragonfly on the pencilled in line I wanted to cut along, thinking 'I bet cutting through a couple of metres worth of this material is gonna be hard on the edge.'

I was very surprised when, even as I placed the blade onto the thick fibrous material, without putting any real pressure on it, the SE teeth were already sinking deep into the cut.

The SE Dragonfly made short work of that job, and was an absolute pleasure to use.

I've gone from having exclusively PE Spydies to, in short order, adding the Tasman Salt, Pacific Salt, UKPK drop point, and waved Matriarch all in SE, to my Spydie toolkit.

In all honesty, I still like to use a super sharp PE knife for my primary EDC, but have absolutely no hesitation in selecting an SE knife when the occasion demands it. That SE Pac Salt is a beast of a knife; I absolutely love mine.

One of my favourite work knife combos now is the HAP40 Jazzlica, along with the H1 Dragonfly SE.

Thanks for enlightening me guys! :)

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Re: I don't like santokus and serrations !

Postby Woodpuppy » Mon Feb 25, 2019 7:52 am

Thanks for the vid, was fun!

I’m not as fast as you, but since taking over the kitchen completely for the last 7+ years (wife pregnant with first set of twins couldn’t reach the counter!), I’ve gotten pretty quick. I guide the knife with my knuckles too, and I’ve never seen another person chop a sweet onion like I do. Thought it was just “my way.” I like the way you flattened out the lettuce to chop it, I’ll remember that one. I usually coin carrots. The only thing I chop nearly as fast as you is garlic. Do you smash it to peel it? Usually I cut 3/4 of the way through the butt end, then pick up on the clove while holding the knife still, and it peels the bottom side of the clove. Then finishing peeling is easy, and I don’t have to pick the shards of peel out of the clove. I only smash if the clove is big enough that it’s easy to pick off the peel.

The only time I’ve nicked myself was while chopping cilantro, trying to keep it bunched my left index finger didn’t get out of the way in time. Felt the cut through the corner of my nail and finger, but the knife never balked at the resistance. Whoops.
:spyder: My other blade is a Kelly Perfect :spyder:

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Jazz
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Re: I don't like santokus and serrations !

Postby Jazz » Mon Feb 25, 2019 7:58 am

Peter1960 wrote:
Mon Feb 25, 2019 1:43 am

Thanks for your impressive video Jazz, I clearly see the difference between you and me - professional versus homemade cooking. You are right, I never could do these jobs in same speed with my Santoku, but my advantage is I'm not in a hurry and do have much smaller quantities and less of space for cooking, I could celebrate the preparing of our meals. I also don't have your your skills and technics.

Thank you. I like watching people cut fast. My wife is very fast. She only cooks at home. She used to think I was judging her until I told her how impressed I am with her.

Speaking of less space, I only use a 10” at home. My cutting board isn’t big enough. :eek:
- best wishes, Jazz.

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Re: I don't like santokus and serrations !

Postby bearfacedkiller » Mon Feb 25, 2019 8:04 am

I am not usually a fan of Santokus. I AM a big fan of my Chinese Chefs knife though and the Spyderco Santoku is tall like a Chinese Chefs knife so I like that. When making soups, stews and stir fry it is great at chopping and transfering food. It also has a lot of belly towards the tip so it rock cuts very well. It is not your average Santoku.

In the end it came with an edge that is thicker than my high end Japanese knives so it is relegated to mostly harder use that the thinner knives do not see.

I mostly use a Chinese chefs knife, a 130mm petty and a 3 inch paring knife. I can do almost everything that I do with those three. I do break out a 180mm Gyuto from time to time. Even with an 18"x 24" cutting board I do not like using knives bigger than that.
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Re: I don't like santokus and serrations !

Postby Jazz » Mon Feb 25, 2019 8:20 am

Cambertree - I love the 12”, as long as they’re not too heavy. Makes chopping a chore. Also takes more space and larger cutting boards. I usually stick with a 10”. Also, I use the heel of my knife a lot - coring tomatoes, opening cucumber wrapping, etc.

Anagarika - Thank you, and you are very correct.

Woodpuppy - Thanks. I do flatten garlic. I’d like to see your onion technique. I bet you are pretty fast, working by yourself. And yes, sometimes it’s rough when you know how to sharpen a knife. ;)

dammyippon - sorry if I derailed your thread. I’m curious how it goes with the Santoku for you.
- best wishes, Jazz.

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Re: I don't like santokus and serrations !

Postby Cambertree » Mon Feb 25, 2019 9:10 am

Thanks Jazz. Yeah, I heard one advantage of the longer blade too, is that you don't have to lift it as high when rocker cutting at speed. Sorry to go OT a bit, but is that a Wenger Swibo you're using?

I don't tend to buy or look at kitchen knives anymore, as I have what I need in every category - mostly hand made J-knives.

Using a good Santoku for the first time was a revelation - but I ended up selling mine along with my 10" Hattori gyuto to a 'lapsed chef' who was going back into the trade.

These days I mostly just use a 7 1/2" funayuki and a nakiri. I just miked the edges with vernier calipers out of curiosity and the funayuki runs 5-7 thou behind the edge and the nakiri is about 6-8 thou. A Misono Chinese Cleaver and Hiromoto petty get a little bit of background use.

I've been loving the Spydie 8" Cooks knife in MBS26 which I won in the raffle too. That steel's great for the kitchen, takes a wicked sharp edge. I guess it's like a Japanese AEB-H, really.

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Re: I don't like santokus and serrations !

Postby Evil D » Mon Feb 25, 2019 9:29 am

I've been using the same single chef's knife my entire life, I literally don't know any different. It's been in the family kitchen since I was a toddler and it's still going strong.

I absolutely love serrations though. I think it's safe to say I'm fully converted.
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Jazz
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Re: I don't like santokus and serrations !

Postby Jazz » Mon Feb 25, 2019 10:18 am

Cambertree wrote:
Mon Feb 25, 2019 9:10 am
Thanks Jazz. Yeah, I heard one advantage of the longer blade too, is that you don't have to lift it as high when rocker cutting at speed. Sorry to go OT a bit, but is that a Wenger Swibo you're using?

That's exactly true, too. Plus lifting it high because of a short blade is plain uncomfortable. I can also get more in there to be cut, if I want.

That's a 12" Henckels. I do have a Wenger Swibo 10", a cheaper Henckels 10" with an awesomely wide blade (good for big hands and longer blade life), a 10" Henckels, a 10" Dexter Russell, and my current knife is a 10" chef from Portugal. I haven't sharpened it yet. Bought it a couple years ago. Just steel it after every use. Nice and wide, but a tad heavy.
- best wishes, Jazz.

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Re: I don't like santokus and serrations !

Postby Woodpuppy » Mon Feb 25, 2019 6:49 pm

Ok here goes...
iPhone videos so I recorded in short segments. Sorry OP for the epic hijack!!


https://vimeo.com/319604117

https://vimeo.com/319605870

https://vimeo.com/319606025
Last edited by Woodpuppy on Tue Feb 26, 2019 5:49 pm, edited 6 times in total.
:spyder: My other blade is a Kelly Perfect :spyder:

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Re: I don't like santokus and serrations !

Postby dammyippon » Mon Feb 25, 2019 6:57 pm

Jazz wrote:
Mon Feb 25, 2019 8:20 am
Cambertree - I love the 12”, as long as they’re not too heavy. Makes chopping a chore. Also takes more space and larger cutting boards. I usually stick with a 10”. Also, I use the heel of my knife a lot - coring tomatoes, opening cucumber wrapping, etc.

Anagarika - Thank you, and you are very correct.

Woodpuppy - Thanks. I do flatten garlic. I’d like to see your onion technique. I bet you are pretty fast, working by yourself. And yes, sometimes it’s rough when you know how to sharpen a knife. ;)

dammyippon - sorry if I derailed your thread. I’m curious how it goes with the Santoku for you.
No problem man, the K08 santoku has a fair bit of belly, I'll try to take some pics tomorrow and I'm also gonna be butchering a chicken, I'll report how it does. :)
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Re: I don't like santokus and serrations !

Postby Kels73 » Mon Feb 25, 2019 7:30 pm

+1 on FFG SE.

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Re: I don't like santokus and serrations !

Postby NoFair » Tue Feb 26, 2019 1:01 am

Jazz wrote:
Sun Feb 24, 2019 8:59 pm
Funny, my work knives are a 10” chef, wharncliffe parer, and a serrated bread knife. I have a boning knife, but usually prefer the chef.
Pretty much the same here. I do use a couple of Santokus at times though.. (and a filet knife with fish at times)

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Re: I don't like santokus and serrations !

Postby dammyippon » Tue Feb 26, 2019 5:29 pm

Double post my bad
Last edited by dammyippon on Tue Feb 26, 2019 5:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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