I never want to hear about "chippy" steel ever again

Discuss Spyderco's products and history.
User avatar
Pelagic
Member
Posts: 2440
Joined: Fri Apr 27, 2018 5:49 pm
Location: East Coast/Nomadic

Re: I never want to hear about "chippy" steel ever again

Postby Pelagic » Sat Feb 16, 2019 5:38 am

Mattysc42 wrote:
Sat Feb 16, 2019 4:04 am
I’ve chipped every steel I’ve used except 3v and lc200n, even at somewhat conservative angles (16-18dps). None of those steels (s30v, s35vn, s110v, aus8, vg10, 14c28n, xhp, 20cv, cruwear, zdp189, hap40, maxamet) chipped noticeably worse than any other.

My knives cut hundreds of feet of cardboard too thick for boxcutters each workday, and regularly impact steel bars. Outside of the extreme toughness spectrum, any steel will chip quickly if pushed too far.

Barring botched heat treatment and excessively low edge angles, edge chipping is nearly always caused by user error, not steel.
Wow, cpm cruwear chipped. My cruwear pm2 only seems to roll. I appreciate your post.
Pancake wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:20 pm
Are you a magician? :eek:
Nate wrote:
Thu Apr 04, 2019 4:32 pm
You're the lone wolf of truth howling into the winds of ignorance
Doeswhateveraspidercan wrote:
Sat Jun 15, 2019 9:17 pm
You are a nobody got it?

Chumango
Member
Posts: 221
Joined: Tue Feb 04, 2014 8:14 am
Location: East TN

Re: I never want to hear about "chippy" steel ever again

Postby Chumango » Sat Feb 16, 2019 6:29 am

Mattysc42 wrote:
Sat Feb 16, 2019 4:04 am
I’ve chipped every steel I’ve used except 3v and lc200n, even at somewhat conservative angles (16-18dps). None of those steels (s30v, s35vn, s110v, aus8, vg10, 14c28n, xhp, 20cv, cruwear, zdp189, hap40, maxamet) chipped noticeably worse than any other.

My knives cut hundreds of feet of cardboard too thick for boxcutters each workday, and regularly impact steel bars.
Apart from chipping, with this use pattern what is your opinion of these steels? Fine edge retention, working edge retention?

Bullwinkle
Member
Posts: 12
Joined: Sun Dec 30, 2018 10:42 am

Re: I never want to hear about "chippy" steel ever again

Postby Bullwinkle » Sat Feb 16, 2019 7:14 am

Not sure why the need to cut the cardboard at all? Just slice the tape at the joint like everyone else does. My keys do this job.
Last edited by Bullwinkle on Sun Feb 17, 2019 9:03 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Albatross
Member
Posts: 857
Joined: Sat Feb 09, 2019 4:13 pm

Re: I never want to hear about "chippy" steel ever again

Postby Albatross » Sat Feb 16, 2019 7:53 am

Bullwinkle wrote:
Sat Feb 16, 2019 7:14 am
Not sure why the need to cut the cardboard at all? Just slice the tape at the join like everyone else does. My keys do this job.
I cut lots of cardboard boxes(large ones) into small pieces for fire starting in our woodstove, it's free tinder. Large pieces could be used, but that's a waste and tends to smother the coals. This saves from splitting wood into much smaller pieces, which means less work and more heat.
sal wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 3:01 pm

...But in general, I'm all about high performance, Ergos, safety. That's why I've been accused of "deigning in the dark"...

sal

User avatar
Pelagic
Member
Posts: 2440
Joined: Fri Apr 27, 2018 5:49 pm
Location: East Coast/Nomadic

Re: I never want to hear about "chippy" steel ever again

Postby Pelagic » Sat Feb 16, 2019 8:11 am

Bullwinkle wrote:
Sat Feb 16, 2019 7:14 am
Not sure why the need to cut the cardboard at all? Just slice the tape at the join like everyone else does. My keys do this job.
Need is a strong word in general. Most people go through life without ever carrying a knife and will never be able to fully understand those who claim "I couldn't leave home without it". Not to mention, some cardboard is too thick to be folded up into a piece small enough for the trash, and many of these boxes are stapled together. Is it technically possible to simply rip the staples out by hand? Sure. But a knife certainly comes in handy. Sometimes you don't realize what you've been missing out on until you actually carry a knife. All kinds of random tasks become much easier.
Pancake wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:20 pm
Are you a magician? :eek:
Nate wrote:
Thu Apr 04, 2019 4:32 pm
You're the lone wolf of truth howling into the winds of ignorance
Doeswhateveraspidercan wrote:
Sat Jun 15, 2019 9:17 pm
You are a nobody got it?

The Meat man
Member
Posts: 4232
Joined: Wed Jan 03, 2018 8:01 pm
Location: Missouri, USA

Re: I never want to hear about "chippy" steel ever again

Postby The Meat man » Sat Feb 16, 2019 8:23 am

Bullwinkle wrote:
Sat Feb 16, 2019 7:14 am
Not sure why the need to cut the cardboard at all? Just slice the tape at the join like everyone else does. My keys do this job.

Also, using a Spyderco is more fun than using your keys. ;)
- Connor

"What is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?"

User avatar
Sharp Guy
Member
Posts: 5966
Joined: Tue Jan 26, 2016 2:19 pm
Location: Over here!

Re: I never want to hear about "chippy" steel ever again

Postby Sharp Guy » Sat Feb 16, 2019 9:11 am

Bullwinkle wrote:
Sat Feb 16, 2019 7:14 am
Not sure why the need to cut the cardboard at all? Just slice the tape at the join like everyone else does. My keys do this job.
Have you considered that your needs might be different than others? I work for a cabinet company. The cabinet components all come packed in thick cardboard boxes. My guys cut the flaps off the boxes to make a cover for the face frame of the assembled cabinets. So cutting lots of cardboard is part of our production process.

At home we have a fairly large recycling bin outside. I keep a small bin inside the garage so we don't have to walk outside every time we want to throw recyclables away. When we discard a larger box I break it down with my knife so it'll fit into the smaller bin. It's not something I really need to do. It's more for convenience. Sometimes I get a little carried away and break all the flaps and panels down into tiny pieces just because I think it's fun. :)

I think Spyderco does an excellent job dialling in the heat treat on all their steels. The idea that they would change the heat treat of a steel simply because some people claim that it's too chippy is probably not entirely correct. I can't say for sure but I'm fairly certain they do quite a bit of testing and then use the heat treat they think gives the best overall performance. Sure they consider feedback they get from their customers but they're not going to make changes without testing and doing their own evaluations.
Of all the things I've lost I miss my mind the most!

brainfriction
Member
Posts: 212
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2018 7:55 pm
Location: Wisconsin, USA, Earth.

Re: I never want to hear about "chippy" steel ever again

Postby brainfriction » Sat Feb 16, 2019 10:17 am

I'm mostly sick of hearing that s30v is "chippy". It's not!

User avatar
Pelagic
Member
Posts: 2440
Joined: Fri Apr 27, 2018 5:49 pm
Location: East Coast/Nomadic

Re: I never want to hear about "chippy" steel ever again

Postby Pelagic » Sat Feb 16, 2019 10:32 am

brainfriction wrote:
Sat Feb 16, 2019 10:17 am
I'm mostly sick of hearing that s30v is "chippy". It's not!
Everyone here views me as some overly hard user of knives, and I actually can't even complain about s110v being "chippy". I've broken tips off millies and pm2's because of (a mistake, AND) blade shape, not steel type. Although steel type/hardness does play a role, as my cruwear pm2's tip is noticeably tougher. But yeah, if s110v was chippy I would have found out a while back. There's no way s30v is chippy.

This is total abuse and doesn't count, but as a beer-fueled experiment I've chopped into hardwood across the grain with 204p (military) before, and that certainly chipped several times, removing chunks of nearly the entire 15dps bevel. Cruwear took the same test and only had minor rolls. That's my only real experience with chipping. My s110v knives have hit steel before and not chipped (the tip is a different story). I don't think steel is an issue, aside from a few Maxamet horror stories.
Pancake wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:20 pm
Are you a magician? :eek:
Nate wrote:
Thu Apr 04, 2019 4:32 pm
You're the lone wolf of truth howling into the winds of ignorance
Doeswhateveraspidercan wrote:
Sat Jun 15, 2019 9:17 pm
You are a nobody got it?

User avatar
Albatross
Member
Posts: 857
Joined: Sat Feb 09, 2019 4:13 pm

Re: I never want to hear about "chippy" steel ever again

Postby Albatross » Sat Feb 16, 2019 10:45 am

I bought a Manix 2 back in 2013. That was shortly after Spyderco switched from 154CM to S30V, back when the Manix 2 came standard with a hollow grind. The factory edge chipped on cardboard. No staples, no contact with anything but cardboard. It took a few sharpenings before that issue went away.

Maybe it's not an issue now, but mine had that issue, so dismissing past claims appears to be done without actual information, just bias. People need to stop making assumptions, such as, "it's always user error", or "people read it on the internet and believe it". The edge issues clearly weren't a big enough issue for me to part with the knife(until I recently decided I like the PM2 better) and I'm obviously still with the brand.

Let's take bias out of the equation and at least acknowledge the prior complaints as potentually legitimate claims. Just because YOU don't have a certain issue, doesn't mean no one else does. I'm sure it wasn't every knife in S30V, but a percentage seemed to be prone to chipping.

So what if people think it's chippy? You can't change public perception with anger and annoyance. Just serve up examples of flawless edges and the rest will follow.
sal wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 3:01 pm

...But in general, I'm all about high performance, Ergos, safety. That's why I've been accused of "deigning in the dark"...

sal

User avatar
Ankerson
Member
Posts: 5889
Joined: Sat Jul 24, 2010 1:23 pm
Location: Raleigh, NC

Re: I never want to hear about "chippy" steel ever again

Postby Ankerson » Sat Feb 16, 2019 11:16 am

The chippy steel thing is for the most part BS from what I have seen over the years in testing. (I have tested more knives that MOST people)

Sharpen the knife correctly and have the right edge profile for the job.

MOST chipping issues are user error and not the fault of the knife and or steel.

The whole thing has been blown way out of proportion in a way for some people to gain attention over the years.

All it is really is drama created to get attention.

A lot of the social media clowns are no more than drama queens these days IMO. :rolleyes:

TomAiello
Member
Posts: 4574
Joined: Tue Jun 11, 2013 10:34 pm
Location: Twin Falls, ID

Re: I never want to hear about "chippy" steel ever again

Postby TomAiello » Sat Feb 16, 2019 11:27 am

Bullwinkle wrote:
Sat Feb 16, 2019 7:14 am
Not sure why the need to cut the cardboard at all? Just slice the tape at the join like everyone else does. My keys do this job.
I have to get cardboard into my recycle bin for pick up. Most boxes are too large to fit into the bin, so I have to cut them into smaller pieces. Just cutting the tape still gives me pieces that are too large. The large pieces get wedged in the bin (if I force them in) and then they don't "dump" out when the truck comes (they lift the bin up with a mechanical arm, and rely on gravity to drop the recycling into the truck). If I don't cut the boxes, my bin basically doesn't get emptied, and the recycling just keeps stacking up.

JD Spydo
Member
Posts: 19508
Joined: Tue Sep 28, 2004 7:53 pm
Location: Blue Springs, Missouri

Re: I never want to hear about "chippy" steel ever again

Postby JD Spydo » Sat Feb 16, 2019 11:50 am

Evil D wrote:
Fri Feb 15, 2019 10:38 pm
I think a very large percentage of "chip issues" are the result of "burr issues", and I'm also speaking from past (novice) experience.
I think Evil D makes a good point with "burr issues" and angle of sharpening>> which continues to make a great case for convex edges on some types of steel.

As far as S30V and chipping problems??? >> oh yes I've experienced it first hand. But I will say that it has mostly occurred when using my blades in very cold and harsh weather conditions. I've never experienced the problem with VG-10 or my M390 Military has never done me that way in any weather condition. But I had it happen on a couple of S30V blades and it seems like the longer the blade is the worse it is. I also fell out of favor with S30V for several other reasons too. I can't get S30V to hold a wicked edge as good as I can with VG-10 and about a dozen other blade steels I could mention.
And this is coming from a guy who is a big fan of Crucible's great steels.

Now there are a lot of great steels I like that Crucible makes like S90V and S110V which I've had great luck with. But I've passed up on many Spyderco models because I couldn't get them in anything but S30V.

User avatar
sal
Member
Posts: 13770
Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2004 12:00 pm
Location: Golden, Colorado USA

Re: I never want to hear about "chippy" steel ever again

Postby sal » Sat Feb 16, 2019 11:55 am

This is actually a really good thread, especially on this forum where differences in experiences can be discussed. Obviously a good education on thought and experience sharing, but also an eye opening look at video testers. Everyone has their own experiences and opinions, even on the same model or steel.

As far as what we do, we will usually go with the "optimal" hardness recommended by the foundry. Sometimes we'll deviate depending on the function of the model and our own history and make something a tweak harder or softer, but we've learned that the foundry recommendations usually work best.

sal

User avatar
Ankerson
Member
Posts: 5889
Joined: Sat Jul 24, 2010 1:23 pm
Location: Raleigh, NC

Re: I never want to hear about "chippy" steel ever again

Postby Ankerson » Sat Feb 16, 2019 12:23 pm

sal wrote:
Sat Feb 16, 2019 11:55 am
This is actually a really good thread, especially on this forum where differences in experiences can be discussed. Obviously a good education on thought and experience sharing, but also an eye opening look at video testers. Everyone has their own experiences and opinions, even on the same model or steel.

As far as what we do, we will usually go with the "optimal" hardness recommended by the foundry. Sometimes we'll deviate depending on the function of the model and our own history and make something a tweak harder or softer, but we've learned that the foundry recommendations usually work best.

sal
Hi Sal,

Most of the video testers are clowns these days.

They really like to hear themselves talk and spread drama.

YT has become worse than trash TV and the media IMO. (And not just knife related videos either)

Drama and more drama... :rolleyes:

If I want to watch drama I would watch Lifetime TV... At least they have real actors. :D

Not some clown shooting video with their I-Phone... :rolleyes:

Jim
Last edited by Ankerson on Sat Feb 16, 2019 12:28 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Mattysc42
Member
Posts: 244
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2018 4:58 pm

Re: I never want to hear about "chippy" steel ever again

Postby Mattysc42 » Sat Feb 16, 2019 12:24 pm

Bullwinkle wrote:
Sat Feb 16, 2019 7:14 am
Not sure why the need to cut the cardboard at all? Just slice the tape at the join like everyone else does. My keys do this job.
We reuse the bottom half of the boxes in the production process. The boxes are too tall to use unless halved.
Chumango wrote:
Mattysc42 wrote:
Sat Feb 16, 2019 4:04 am
I’ve chipped every steel I’ve used except 3v and lc200n, even at somewhat conservative angles (16-18dps). None of those steels (s30v, s35vn, s110v, aus8, vg10, 14c28n, xhp, 20cv, cruwear, zdp189, hap40, maxamet) chipped noticeably worse than any other.

My knives cut hundreds of feet of cardboard too thick for boxcutters each workday, and regularly impact steel bars.
Apart from chipping, with this use pattern what is your opinion of these steels? Fine edge retention, working edge retention?
Aus8, 14c28n, and vg10 don’t have enough wear resistance to be viable for my uses.

S30v, s35vn, 3v, cruwear, and hap40 are great for ease of sharpening and fine edge retention with a 1500 grit diamond edge. Working edge retention is best on s30v, but not bad on the others. Cruwear and s35vn roll more than chip on impact while s30v and 3v usually flatten.

Xhp, zdp189, 20cv, and maxamet all hold an exceptionally aggressive working edge at 500 grit diamond.

S110v usually doesn’t feel particularly aggressive to the touch but cuts for a long time. Maxamet is my favorite for working edges, and is the only steel I’ve had stay sharp for a full workday.

Lc200n takes an amazing polish, and holds it longer than any other steel I’ve used. Lc200n is odd in my experience because if it’s sharpened with the scratch pattern towards the heel and used to draw cut or slice, it blunts fairly quickly regardless of finish. If sharpened with the scratch pattern towards the tip, polished, and used to push cut, lc200n cuts for noticeably longer than s30v. I’m clueless as to why.
BRING ON THE MANIX XL SPRINTS AND EXCLUSIVES! And 10v or K390ify the Golden lineup, please.

Top 5 folders I’ve owned: Serrated Caribbean Leaf, Shaman, Manix XL, ZDP-189/CF Caly 3.5, Native LW.
Top 5 steels I’ve owned: LC200N, K390, CPM S90V, M390, CPM REX45.
Top 3 steels I want more of: M390 class, A11 class (including K390), CPM REX45.

Doeswhateveraspidercan
Member
Posts: 2618
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2018 6:31 pm

Re: I never want to hear about "chippy" steel ever again

Postby Doeswhateveraspidercan » Sat Feb 16, 2019 12:42 pm

ZrowsN1s wrote:
Sat Feb 16, 2019 12:07 am
I find guacamole can fix most chip issues :D
Lol and that’s right!!! :D

Doeswhateveraspidercan
Member
Posts: 2618
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2018 6:31 pm

Re: I never want to hear about "chippy" steel ever again

Postby Doeswhateveraspidercan » Sat Feb 16, 2019 12:48 pm

The only time I have ever had chips in a Spyderco blade were during a rebeveling operation where I used 100 Grit diamond stones on some darn fine steel S110V. Both on a manix and a Paramilitary2.

Won’t lie freaked me out at first thought I had ruined the blade but had no choice other than continue.

It became a none issue of course as grit progression blended everything.

I have repaired a different brand for a friend with cr13mov steel and that was chipped like crazy and the serrations were squared off. Lucky it is easy to work with.

Bill1170
Member
Posts: 2053
Joined: Tue Oct 20, 2009 7:34 pm
Location: San Diego North County

Re: I never want to hear about "chippy" steel ever again

Postby Bill1170 » Sun Feb 17, 2019 1:00 am

Mattysc42 wrote: “Lc200n takes an amazing polish, and holds it longer than any other steel I’ve used. Lc200n is odd in my experience because if it’s sharpened with the scratch pattern towards the heel and used to draw cut or slice, it blunts fairly quickly regardless of finish. If sharpened with the scratch pattern towards the tip, polished, and used to push cut, lc200n cuts for noticeably longer than s30v. I’m clueless as to why.”
That is a fascinating observation. I wonder if better edge stability explains why the polished LC200N push cuts longer than S30V. I’ve never been impressed by the ability of S30V to hold a fine edge for long. I’ve always enjoyed how ZDP-189 retains a fine edge suitable for push cutting.

User avatar
The Mastiff
Member
Posts: 5395
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2006 2:53 am
Location: raleigh nc

Re: I never want to hear about "chippy" steel ever again

Postby The Mastiff » Sun Feb 17, 2019 1:25 am

I had minor chipping issues when I first started carrying S30V knives. The high wear resistance had me using low grit diamond stones and pressing too hard. Once I figured out what I was doing the "heat treat" improved and I had no issues any more. :) Learning to not have burrs also was an issue when I first began with powder steels. These steels because of the process are tougher and will do stuff like hold on to burrs more because of it. Once again it was experience and learning that solved my problems ( or better heat treat, or sharpening out the bad steel and getting down to the good steel or whatever other excuse is handy)

My point is we have to do more than repeat slogans or rely on what is common knowledge when issues come up. Most here should remember the S35Vn "problem" that arose when the first knives in that steel were released. One guy with a you tube channel started that whole mess. Others jumped on the bandwagon and soon people were repeating bad info as facts. That is how human nature is in these days of social media. We need to keep this in mind when talking on the forums. Is what you are saying mirroring your actual experience or are you allowing others statements to guide yours. It is human nature to desire to fit into the herd after all.

Joe


Return to “Spyderco General Discussion”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Airlsee, chrisb507, Ez556, Google [Bot], koenigsegg, Majestic-12 [Bot], steelcity16 and 50 guests