S30V Only Cool if it's a Benchmade?

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Caustic Dick
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Re: S30V Only Cool if it's a Benchmade?

Postby Caustic Dick » Sun Jan 27, 2019 5:29 pm

Jazz wrote:
Sun Jan 27, 2019 7:34 am
I find VG-10 to be great.
Agreed.
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Re: S30V Only Cool if it's a Benchmade?

Postby Pelagic » Sun Jan 27, 2019 6:19 pm

If you have a job where edge retention is a real requirement of your knife, s30v won't cut it. I've had many shifts on the dredge (cutting rope 5 inches thick and various other materials) where s110v wouldn't cut it.

Someone early in this discussion said (I honestly forget who it was and don't care to look) "for those that USE their knives, s30v is a great steel". Well I can assure you I use my knives and that is the exact reason I prefer something better than s30v. It's also the reason I carry 2 folders at all times: one cutter (high hardness/wear resistance) and one toughy (cruwear or beater knife). I often need high performance. If I think M4 would be tough enough to make the perfect big chopper for my needs, I'll go 4v instead. If I think 10v will have good enough edge retention for my needs, I'll go Maxamet instead. I rarely regret decisions like this.

S30v is certainly well rounded and is a good choice for the masses. But most people will be better suited with something better because everyone's needs are so different.
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Re: S30V Only Cool if it's a Benchmade?

Postby 500Nitro » Sun Jan 27, 2019 6:26 pm

I think you are an extreme user.

I doubt many would cut a 1-2 inch rope in a lifetime, let alone a 5 inch rope.
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Re: S30V Only Cool if it's a Benchmade?

Postby Pelagic » Sun Jan 27, 2019 6:32 pm

500Nitro wrote:
Sun Jan 27, 2019 6:26 pm
I think you are an extreme user.

I doubt many would cut a 1-2 inch rope in a lifetime, let alone a 5 inch rope.
I'll agree to that. But I know I'm not the only one that needs a knife with better edge retention than s30v.
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Re: S30V Only Cool if it's a Benchmade?

Postby JacksonKnives » Sun Jan 27, 2019 7:08 pm

For a different angle on the complaints:
Sprint runs in "exciting" steels are a big reason Spyderco knives are collectible. The old CF S90V sprints were very exclusive.
When you have the option to pick between S30V, S110V, Maxamet, and 52100, the 'happy medium' of S30 seems boring.

If you've got all your favorite models in CF/S90V sprints runs, seeing a new model in S30V feels like a step down. The expectation that Spyderco will eventually release a model in other steels makes it that much easier to dismiss S30V.

It used to be that the use of high end steels made Spyderco very unique. Now that some competing manufacturers are using M390 and 20CV in regular production, Spyderco has lost that competitive edge. (They aren't the only ones, to be sure.)

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Re: S30V Only Cool if it's a Benchmade?

Postby cycleguy » Sun Jan 27, 2019 8:03 pm

Agree... s30v doesn't have that second kinda cool thing going on anymore. Just plane old hum drum standard knife steel.

I liked the Mini Grip with the hole, but have finally let them go and don't see any Grip in my future! I'm like you and don't like the thumb stud (just there to get hung up on something) but I have developed an attraction with the Bugout ... that ol' boring s30v Bugout.

Which would you choose: A) a Spyderco Chaparral Carbon Fiber CTS-XHP for $130 or B) a Benchmade Bugout Polymer S30V coated blade for $135? Don't worry; there is no wrong answer.

CG
So many knives - so little funds!!!

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Re: S30V Only Cool if it's a Benchmade?

Postby Mattysc42 » Sun Jan 27, 2019 9:03 pm

Pelagic wrote:
Sun Jan 27, 2019 6:19 pm
If you have a job where edge retention is a real requirement of your knife, s30v won't cut it. I've had many shifts on the dredge (cutting rope 5 inches thick and various other materials) where s110v wouldn't cut it.

Someone early in this discussion said (I honestly forget who it was and don't care to look) "for those that USE their knives, s30v is a great steel". Well I can assure you I use my knives and that is the exact reason I prefer something better than s30v. It's also the reason I carry 2 folders at all times: one cutter (high hardness/wear resistance) and one toughy (cruwear or beater knife). I often need high performance. If I think M4 would be tough enough to make the perfect big chopper for my needs, I'll go 4v instead. If I think 10v will have good enough edge retention for my needs, I'll go Maxamet instead. I rarely regret decisions like this.

S30v is certainly well rounded and is a good choice for the masses. But most people will be better suited with something better because everyone's needs are so different.
This^

I’ve been using my maxamet manix at work for the last 2 weeks.

It’s hair splitting sharp with a 35 degree inclusive 500grit diamond edge when I leave for work each day, and butter knife dull by the end of each day. S30v doesn’t even last an hour before the edge is dull.

S30v is good for the casual user’s edc, but for people who cut nasty abrasives all day, nothing is good enough.

This isn’t a knock against S30v knives though. I love my Manix XL and Sliverax and can easily get amazing edges from the S30v. I just find I’m better served using more focused steels rather than balanced ones, so focused steels are what I spend my money on. Lc200n and Maxamet are my favorites, though I’d love to try Rex-121 and Vanax sc.
BRING ON THE MANIX XL SPRINTS AND EXCLUSIVES! And 10v or K390ify the Golden lineup, please.

Top 5 folders I’ve owned: Serrated Caribbean Leaf, Shaman, Manix XL, ZDP-189/CF Caly 3.5, Native LW.
Top 5 steels I’ve owned: LC200N, K390, CPM S90V, M390, CPM REX45.
Top 3 steels I want more of: M390 class, A11 class (including K390), CPM REX45.

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Re: S30V Only Cool if it's a Benchmade?

Postby Halfneck » Sun Jan 27, 2019 9:39 pm

I've got a Benchmade 940.....in 154CM. Carried it for a bit, but wished I'd gotten the pointier version 943. Retired it due to it being in my pocket when my 2nd son was born. One day he'll get it.

Only Benchmade I have in S30V I have is the Bugout. I'm not a fan of S30V, but I really like the Bugout. Same reason I bought the Spyderco Lil'Temp 3 in S30V. I'm willing to overlook the steel because I like the knife. Purely personal preference as I know some of the early issues with S30V are no longer an issue. Personally I'd rather see 154CM (BM) or VG10 (Spyd) used and the price kept down.

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Re: S30V Only Cool if it's a Benchmade?

Postby Pelagic » Sun Jan 27, 2019 10:00 pm

Mattysc42 wrote:
Sun Jan 27, 2019 9:03 pm
Pelagic wrote:
Sun Jan 27, 2019 6:19 pm
If you have a job where edge retention is a real requirement of your knife, s30v won't cut it. I've had many shifts on the dredge (cutting rope 5 inches thick and various other materials) where s110v wouldn't cut it.

Someone early in this discussion said (I honestly forget who it was and don't care to look) "for those that USE their knives, s30v is a great steel". Well I can assure you I use my knives and that is the exact reason I prefer something better than s30v. It's also the reason I carry 2 folders at all times: one cutter (high hardness/wear resistance) and one toughy (cruwear or beater knife). I often need high performance. If I think M4 would be tough enough to make the perfect big chopper for my needs, I'll go 4v instead. If I think 10v will have good enough edge retention for my needs, I'll go Maxamet instead. I rarely regret decisions like this.

S30v is certainly well rounded and is a good choice for the masses. But most people will be better suited with something better because everyone's needs are so different.
This^

I’ve been using my maxamet manix at work for the last 2 weeks.

It’s hair splitting sharp with a 35 degree inclusive 500grit diamond edge when I leave for work each day, and butter knife dull by the end of each day. S30v doesn’t even last an hour before the edge is dull.

S30v is good for the casual user’s edc, but for people who cut nasty abrasives all day, nothing is good enough.

This isn’t a knock against S30v knives though. I love my Manix XL and Sliverax and can easily get amazing edges from the S30v. I just find I’m better served using more focused steels rather than balanced ones, so focused steels are what I spend my money on. Lc200n and Maxamet are my favorites, though I’d love to try Rex-121 and Vanax sc.
A tip of the hat to you, sir.
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Re: S30V Only Cool if it's a Benchmade?

Postby jasonstone20 » Sun Jan 27, 2019 11:17 pm

S30V is a great steel, so is VG-10. To be honest, however, I'll take any steel suitable for cutlery.
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Re: S30V Only Cool if it's a Benchmade?

Postby Woodpuppy » Mon Jan 28, 2019 5:46 am

I had a rocky start with s30v, and better is available now, so no love lost.
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Re: S30V Only Cool if it's a Benchmade?

Postby Crux » Mon Jan 28, 2019 1:35 pm

No, no, no. s30v is very cool in a Para 3. Other models, eh.
Can you find it and can it cut? :eek:

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Re: S30V Only Cool if it's a Benchmade?

Postby Bloke » Mon Jan 28, 2019 3:44 pm

People have been able to cut anything that needed cutting one way or another since the dawn of mankind.

Fast forward to the 21st Century and if our blade blunts after we cut our way out of the space ship’s hull that abducted us or after cutting up Kevlar vests and sections of an old six inch hawser encrusted in barnacles it’s not much of a blade and we need something better.

Quite Bizarre! :rolleyes:
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Re: S30V Only Cool if it's a Benchmade?

Postby Pelagic » Mon Jan 28, 2019 4:34 pm

Bloke wrote:
Mon Jan 28, 2019 3:44 pm
People have been able to cut anything that needed cutting one way or another since the dawn of mankind.

Fast forward to the 21st Century and if our blade blunts after we cut our way out of the space ship’s hull that abducted us or after cutting up Kevlar vests and sections of an old six inch hawser encrusted in barnacles it’s not much of a blade and we need something better.

Quite Bizarre! :rolleyes:
I fully understand your point, but it's not exactly accurate. We've never been able to cut to the extent we'd like to, and with advancement of technology new materials arose that needed to be cut. People have died and lost limbs because they didn't have a sharp enough knife (and can't always walk around with a sharpening stone in every setting). The "coolness" factor perpetuated by collectors takes away from the practicality of extremely good performing steels.
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Re: S30V Only Cool if it's a Benchmade?

Postby Bloke » Mon Jan 28, 2019 5:18 pm

Pelagic wrote:
Mon Jan 28, 2019 4:34 pm
Bloke wrote:
Mon Jan 28, 2019 3:44 pm
People have been able to cut anything that needed cutting one way or another since the dawn of mankind.

Fast forward to the 21st Century and if our blade blunts after we cut our way out of the space ship’s hull that abducted us or after cutting up Kevlar vests and sections of an old six inch hawser encrusted in barnacles it’s not much of a blade and we need something better.

Quite Bizarre! :rolleyes:
I fully understand your point, but it's not exactly accurate. We've never been able to cut to the extent we'd like to, and with advancement of technology new materials arose that needed to be cut. People have died and lost limbs because they didn't have a sharp enough knife (and can't always walk around with a sharpening stone in every setting). The "coolness" factor perpetuated by collectors takes away from the practicality of extremely good performing steels.
Granted! There’ll always be extreme circumstances and people requiring extreme performance from knives and all sorts of other tools and equipment but I’d hazard a guess and say these people are in fact a very small minority.

It just never ceases to amaze me that the average Joe knife twirler cutting up his lunch finds fault with the simple garden variety steels that have served the masses so well for half a century or more.

I agree with others, that we’re spoilt for choice and chasing our tails in the quest for Super Duper alloys that either don’t exist or we have no use for but want them anyway because as you say they’re cool to have.
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Re: S30V Only Cool if it's a Benchmade?

Postby bearfacedkiller » Mon Jan 28, 2019 6:22 pm

Wouldn't it be a glorious thing if knife "afis" were as concerned with design, ergonomics, and geometry as they were with steel composition? The only thing that seems as important as the alloy used is having other impressive materials like titanium and carbon fiber or maybe rolling on bearings. Certainly interesting times we live in.

I tell myself that the knife buying public is more pragmatic than the knife geeks on the web and hopefully it is true. That would explain why we still have S30V and VG10 as base steels. Also explains why the humble SAK is still probably the best selling knife on earth and why Buck and Leatherman still butter their bread with 420HC.

I am absolutely enamored with Maxamet, Cruwear and a few other steels. That said, if every knife I owned was made out of 1095 or 440C then I am quite confident that all my cutting chores would be met. I keep a doublestuff in my truck, I always bring a stone into the woods with me and I also throw one in my bag when I travel. At this point I find sharpening trivial so while I do appreciate good wear resistance I definitely do not always rank it above other attributes.
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Re: S30V Only Cool if it's a Benchmade?

Postby hmr170 » Mon Jan 28, 2019 7:41 pm

I worked on ocean going ships for ten years and whatever steel Buck was using in the 80's seemed to work fine for me. Also, when we needed to cut a 5" diameter line (which was not very often actually), we didn't use our pocket knives. We had an electric hot knife, which worked kind of like a table-top mounted soldering iron with a blade that got hot instead of the soldering tip. We also used hacksaws to cut through really thick line.

Every ship I've ever been on had a super rough sharpening stone in the Bosun' shop for the sailors to sharpen their knives. Something like 100-200 grit. This would allow you to put a really rough edge on it that wouldn't dull quickly.

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Re: S30V Only Cool if it's a Benchmade?

Postby vivi » Mon Jan 28, 2019 10:26 pm

bearfacedkiller wrote:
Mon Jan 28, 2019 6:22 pm
Wouldn't it be a glorious thing if knife "afis" were as concerned with design, ergonomics, and geometry as they were with steel composition? The only thing that seems as important as the alloy used is having other impressive materials like titanium and carbon fiber or maybe rolling on bearings. Certainly interesting times we live in.
well said. there is a hyper focus on materials above anything else these days. on other forums i visit folks seem more concerned with the fidget factor and eye appeal than anything else.

at least on hobby forums, it seems like knife users are becoming increasingly rare.
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Re: S30V Only Cool if it's a Benchmade?

Postby Naperville » Mon Jan 28, 2019 10:32 pm

cycleguy wrote:
Sun Jan 27, 2019 12:35 pm
I've been considering an Osborne 940... then end out buying something Spyderco! Go figure. If you include exclusives, the Osborne comes in 20CV, D2, S90V, and M390 - not just boring s30v.

As you mentioned with the grip .. it is getting revamped with s30v in lieu of 154cm ... so I'm seeing s30v as something of an industry standard for quality/non-entry level u.s.a. made folders.

I have no issues with s30v.

CG
I don't own that many Benchmade knives, but their online Custom Shop for knives is very forward thinking, cutting edge for a factory, and the wave of the future.
Spyderco Collection: Military (S110V), Bob Lum Darn Dao(CPM-154), Yojimbo 2 (1 in S30V & 2 in 20CV), Sustain(20CV), Native 5(Maxamet), Jumpmaster 2(H1), Province(4V). SHORT LIST: CF Shaman(S90V), Native Chief, Street Bowie(4V at 60+ HRC), Nightstick, Yojumbo.

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Re: S30V Only Cool if it's a Benchmade?

Postby Naperville » Mon Jan 28, 2019 10:33 pm

bearfacedkiller wrote:
Mon Jan 28, 2019 6:22 pm
Wouldn't it be a glorious thing if knife "afis" were as concerned with design, ergonomics, and geometry as they were with steel composition? The only thing that seems as important as the alloy used is having other impressive materials like titanium and carbon fiber or maybe rolling on bearings. Certainly interesting times we live in.

I tell myself that the knife buying public is more pragmatic than the knife geeks on the web and hopefully it is true. That would explain why we still have S30V and VG10 as base steels. Also explains why the humble SAK is still probably the best selling knife on earth and why Buck and Leatherman still butter their bread with 420HC.

I am absolutely enamored with Maxamet, Cruwear and a few other steels. That said, if every knife I owned was made out of 1095 or 440C then I am quite confident that all my cutting chores would be met. I keep a doublestuff in my truck, I always bring a stone into the woods with me and I also throw one in my bag when I travel. At this point I find sharpening trivial so while I do appreciate good wear resistance I definitely do not always rank it above other attributes.

I never buy on knife steel alone, and I have a widely varied collection.

MY COLLECTION BY KNIFE STEEL:
3V, 6 (Bark River Knives(2), Cold Steel(1), RMJ(2), Winkler Knives(1))
9Cr18, 4 (CRKT(4))
80CrV2, 4(Winkler Knives(4))
154CM, 4 (Emerson(3), Boker(1))
1055 Carbon Steel, 7 (Cold Steel(2 + 5))
1095 High Carbon Steel, 4 (ESEE(1), KA-BAR(1), Tops Knives(2))
420HC Stainless, 3 (Buck(2), Gerber(1))
440C, 2 (Boker(2))
52100 High Carbon Steel, 1 (Cold Steel(1))
A2, 1 (Bark River Knives(1))
AUS-8, 2 (5.11(1), SOG(1))
BDZ-1, 1 (Gerber(1))
CPM-20CV, 4 (Hinderer(1), Spyderco(3))
CPM-154, 1 (Spyderco(1))
CTS-XHP, 6 (Cold Steel(4), LES GEORGE(2))
D2, 1 (KA-BAR(1))
Elmax, 1 (Bark River Knives(1))
H1, 1 (Spyderco(1))
M390, 4 (Bradford Knives(2), Hinderer(1), SCHUTTE(1))
M4, 1 (Benchmade(1))
Maxamet, 1 (Spyderco(1))
N690CO, 1 (Bastinelli(1))
O1, 6 (Randall(5), CRKT(1))
S30V, 1 (Spyderco(1))
S35VN, 10 (Chris Reeve(1), Hinderer(1), KA-BAR(2), Medford(1), Spartan Blades(2), ZT Knives(3))
S90V, 2 (Zero Tolerance(2))
S110V, 1 (Spyderco(1))
VG10, 2 (Boker(2))
ZDP189, 1 (ZT Knives(1))
Spyderco Collection: Military (S110V), Bob Lum Darn Dao(CPM-154), Yojimbo 2 (1 in S30V & 2 in 20CV), Sustain(20CV), Native 5(Maxamet), Jumpmaster 2(H1), Province(4V). SHORT LIST: CF Shaman(S90V), Native Chief, Street Bowie(4V at 60+ HRC), Nightstick, Yojumbo.


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