That's actually a both simple and quite ingenious idea...Evil D wrote: ↑Thu Jan 03, 2019 6:59 amThis is why I propose they instead start adding one single large serration at the heel of the blade. This will achieve the same results as a sharpening notch for those who want it, but also prevent things from snagging since it's still an edge. No edge length is lost (technically you gain a small amount) and you have a nice notch for cutting cord.
Sharpening choils - Why?
Re: Sharpening choils - Why?
Top three going by pocket-time (update March 24):
- EDC: Endura thin red line ffg combo edge (VG10); Wayne Goddard PE (4V), Endela SE (VG10)
-Mountains/outdoors: Pac.Salt 1 SE (H1), Salt 2 SE (LC200N), and also Wayne Goddard PE (4V)
- EDC: Endura thin red line ffg combo edge (VG10); Wayne Goddard PE (4V), Endela SE (VG10)
-Mountains/outdoors: Pac.Salt 1 SE (H1), Salt 2 SE (LC200N), and also Wayne Goddard PE (4V)
Re: Sharpening choils - Why?
Like on a Victorinox Electrician I guess? I’ve thought of trying that before too. Anyone here have an Electrician that cares to add a comment?Evil D wrote: ↑Thu Jan 03, 2019 6:59 amThis is why I propose they instead start adding one single large serration at the heel of the blade. This will achieve the same results as a sharpening notch for those who want it, but also prevent things from snagging since it's still an edge. No edge length is lost (technically you gain a small amount) and you have a nice notch for cutting cord.
If you're wielding the sharpest tool in the shed, who's going to say that you aren't...?
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Re: Sharpening choils - Why?
I dislike them. I added one to a knife once and regret it. I won’t add one again. Making it a single serration might work better but I would still rather not have one.
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Re: Sharpening choils - Why?
I am in Vivi's camp here. It is one of the things I like about Spyderco: no sharpeing choil! I have no problem shoarpening up to the recasso free hand.
Re: Sharpening choils - Why?
I'm not a fan of sharpening choils. I'd rather not have them on any knives. Like some of the people here, I've thought about this debate for years. I've concluded this is purely a cosmetic issue and it really boils down to whether or not a person wants the edge to look perfectly sharp all the way to the end. For me, I see the knife as a tool and the edge is the useful part of the tool. I want all the edge I can get. Even if there's little bit at the base that cannot be sharpened, it's still less than I would loose by cutting the area away to make a sharpening choil. Inevitably 50% or more of a choil will end up in area that could be sharpened. It's not much...it doesn't realistically matter..it's just mental. My brain is happier knowing I have that extra 2mm of sharpened edge, while others are happier knowing the edge they have is sharp all the way to the end. I bet there's a personality test that would accurately predict which a person would prefer? :D
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Father of 2, nature explorer, custom knife maker.
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Re: Sharpening choils - Why?
spyderg wrote: ↑Thu Jan 03, 2019 11:11 amLike on a Victorinox Electrician I guess? I’ve thought of trying that before too. Anyone here have an Electrician that cares to add a comment?Evil D wrote: ↑Thu Jan 03, 2019 6:59 amThis is why I propose they instead start adding one single large serration at the heel of the blade. This will achieve the same results as a sharpening notch for those who want it, but also prevent things from snagging since it's still an edge. No edge length is lost (technically you gain a small amount) and you have a nice notch for cutting cord.
I'm not familiar with that knife, I've seen it done on some fixed blades so I can't claim it was my idea or anything. It really seems like a no brainier, I really don't understand why a standard choil would ever be preferable over a serration that can still slice.
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Re: Sharpening choils - Why?
I find they're helpful if you're using a sharpener that isn't perfectly flat, such as round ceramic rods, or some of the diamond rod sharpeners.
Chris
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Haves: Lava, Delica 4 Sante Fe Stoneworks, Spy-DK x2,
Just say NO to lined FRN
Re: Sharpening choils - Why?
Evil D wrote: ↑Thu Jan 03, 2019 11:40 amspyderg wrote: ↑Thu Jan 03, 2019 11:11 amLike on a Victorinox Electrician I guess? I’ve thought of trying that before too. Anyone here have an Electrician that cares to add a comment?Evil D wrote: ↑Thu Jan 03, 2019 6:59 amThis is why I propose they instead start adding one single large serration at the heel of the blade. This will achieve the same results as a sharpening notch for those who want it, but also prevent things from snagging since it's still an edge. No edge length is lost (technically you gain a small amount) and you have a nice notch for cutting cord.
I'm not familiar with that knife, I've seen it done on some fixed blades so I can't claim it was my idea or anything. It really seems like a no brainier, I really don't understand why a standard choil would ever be preferable over a serration that can still slice.
This is the Electrician blade that has the serration. Some are ground right to the ricasso others are more like this one. I chose this one to post to highlight that even doing this will leave some ppl complaining, lol! *not my pic*
If you're wielding the sharpest tool in the shed, who's going to say that you aren't...?
Re: Sharpening choils - Why?
I personally have never seen it done on any knife and wonder why, since that approach is a rather ingenious one, IF one wants a sharpening choil anyway!Evil D wrote: ↑Thu Jan 03, 2019 11:40 amspyderg wrote: ↑Thu Jan 03, 2019 11:11 amLike on a Victorinox Electrician I guess? I’ve thought of trying that before too. Anyone here have an Electrician that cares to add a comment?Evil D wrote: ↑Thu Jan 03, 2019 6:59 amThis is why I propose they instead start adding one single large serration at the heel of the blade. This will achieve the same results as a sharpening notch for those who want it, but also prevent things from snagging since it's still an edge. No edge length is lost (technically you gain a small amount) and you have a nice notch for cutting cord.
I'm not familiar with that knife, I've seen it done on some fixed blades so I can't claim it was my idea or anything. It really seems like a no brainier, I really don't understand why a standard choil would ever be preferable over a serration that can still slice.
Can't be patented or something, I mean how could several serrations in a row NOT be patented but a single one is...
I could even see "One-serration-instead-of-a-notch" to be kind of a trademark for a brand.
Still, I prefer no notch and no single-serration, just edge all the way...
Top three going by pocket-time (update March 24):
- EDC: Endura thin red line ffg combo edge (VG10); Wayne Goddard PE (4V), Endela SE (VG10)
-Mountains/outdoors: Pac.Salt 1 SE (H1), Salt 2 SE (LC200N), and also Wayne Goddard PE (4V)
- EDC: Endura thin red line ffg combo edge (VG10); Wayne Goddard PE (4V), Endela SE (VG10)
-Mountains/outdoors: Pac.Salt 1 SE (H1), Salt 2 SE (LC200N), and also Wayne Goddard PE (4V)
Re: Sharpening choils - Why?
Meant to be a wire-stripper, right?spyderg wrote: ↑Thu Jan 03, 2019 12:02 pmEvil D wrote: ↑Thu Jan 03, 2019 11:40 amspyderg wrote: ↑Thu Jan 03, 2019 11:11 amLike on a Victorinox Electrician I guess? I’ve thought of trying that before too. Anyone here have an Electrician that cares to add a comment?Evil D wrote: ↑Thu Jan 03, 2019 6:59 amThis is why I propose they instead start adding one single large serration at the heel of the blade. This will achieve the same results as a sharpening notch for those who want it, but also prevent things from snagging since it's still an edge. No edge length is lost (technically you gain a small amount) and you have a nice notch for cutting cord.
I'm not familiar with that knife, I've seen it done on some fixed blades so I can't claim it was my idea or anything. It really seems like a no brainier, I really don't understand why a standard choil would ever be preferable over a serration that can still slice.
This is the Electrician blade that has the serration. Some are ground right to the ricasso others are more like this one. I chose this one to post to highlight that even doing this will leave some ppl complaining, lol! AA19FE73-DE8A-437B-A9A3-C7B228411C8B.jpeg *not my pic*
Top three going by pocket-time (update March 24):
- EDC: Endura thin red line ffg combo edge (VG10); Wayne Goddard PE (4V), Endela SE (VG10)
-Mountains/outdoors: Pac.Salt 1 SE (H1), Salt 2 SE (LC200N), and also Wayne Goddard PE (4V)
- EDC: Endura thin red line ffg combo edge (VG10); Wayne Goddard PE (4V), Endela SE (VG10)
-Mountains/outdoors: Pac.Salt 1 SE (H1), Salt 2 SE (LC200N), and also Wayne Goddard PE (4V)
Re: Sharpening choils - Why?
That’s my understanding.Wartstein wrote: ↑Thu Jan 03, 2019 12:06 pmMeant to be a wire-stripper, right?spyderg wrote: ↑Thu Jan 03, 2019 12:02 pmEvil D wrote: ↑Thu Jan 03, 2019 11:40 am
I'm not familiar with that knife, I've seen it done on some fixed blades so I can't claim it was my idea or anything. It really seems like a no brainier, I really don't understand why a standard choil would ever be preferable over a serration that can still slice.
This is the Electrician blade that has the serration. Some are ground right to the ricasso others are more like this one. I chose this one to post to highlight that even doing this will leave some ppl complaining, lol! AA19FE73-DE8A-437B-A9A3-C7B228411C8B.jpeg *not my pic*
If you're wielding the sharpest tool in the shed, who's going to say that you aren't...?
Re: Sharpening choils - Why?
Ah, ok. I do all my sharpening free hand.basedlarrydavid wrote: ↑Thu Jan 03, 2019 12:55 amWithout them, especially on jig systems, the stone cannot contact the full length of the blade while remaining flat. Thus, over time, the blade is worn unevenly due to uneven sharpening. I never realized how incredibly useful and helpful they are until I started sharpening myself.
A lot depends on the geometry of the blade. Not every knife that has a sharpening choil needs one. But when you run across a knife that could really benefit from having one and doesn’t (cough, Benchmade 940, cough) it can be a real pain.
I usually sharpen all the way to the plunge/ricasso on PM2s for the same (less pronounced) reasons. A few strokes on an Atoma 140 and I’m good to go.
Confused about the 940 comment though. The massive sharpening notch it has doesn't qualify as one in your book?
Re: Sharpening choils - Why?
I don't think making the blade look like it has a big chip taken out near the ricasso looks clean, but that's pretty subjective territory.BornIn1500 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 03, 2019 2:34 am
Ah, but then it wouldn't look all nice and clean. Using your first example, the Kapara, I think we can agree that people are buying it just as much for the art aspect as for the tool aspect and they're paying a hefty price to get it. So they want everything to look crisp and clean like a well-ironed shirt. Case in point... you really don't hear people complaining about a lack of a sharpening choil on the Tenacious.
Re: Sharpening choils - Why?
99% of the ones I see are dull and reduce the cutting edge. It's my #1 gripe on one of my favorite fixed blades:anagarika wrote: ↑Thu Jan 03, 2019 5:25 amVivi,
I am in disagreement here. The notch doesn’t reduce the sharp edge, it’s cut into unsharpened part, and if done correctly, it’s sharp, no snagging.
https://youtu.be/VMvE-b4259A
I’m not
Re: Sharpening choils - Why?
This would make so much more sense than what we currently see. I'd still prefer a straight edge, but this would eliminate the snagging issue and my main annoyance with the notch.Evil D wrote: ↑Thu Jan 03, 2019 6:59 amThis is why I propose they instead start adding one single large serration at the heel of the blade. This will achieve the same results as a sharpening notch for those who want it, but also prevent things from snagging since it's still an edge. No edge length is lost (technically you gain a small amount) and you have a nice notch for cutting cord.
Re: Sharpening choils - Why?
Somehow the starting point of this thread indirectly was a video by Allistair Phillips, teaching how to add a sharpenig choil to the Kapara.
So I thought it would maybe be interesting for some, how he himself did reply to a question concerning "Sharpening choils - why?"
I myself happened to ask him this very question in the comment section below his video on youtube some two weeks ago, and just gonna copy and paste this and his reply below
Wartstein: "...I understand how a choil makes it possible to sharpen the whole length of the cutting edge easily. BUT: If you do NOT have a choil: The first little part of the edge (where you would apply a choil) would stay unsharpened. So: Wouldn´t you end up with the same amount of sharp edge, regardless if the knife has a choil or not?"
Alistair Phillips:"Yeah I guess it depends on how close you can bring that un-sharpened section to the plunge of the grind. It would depend also on what sharpening system you are using."
To me that does not sound like he´d put in a choil mainly to achieve MORE sharpened edge than there would be without.
So I thought it would maybe be interesting for some, how he himself did reply to a question concerning "Sharpening choils - why?"
I myself happened to ask him this very question in the comment section below his video on youtube some two weeks ago, and just gonna copy and paste this and his reply below
Wartstein: "...I understand how a choil makes it possible to sharpen the whole length of the cutting edge easily. BUT: If you do NOT have a choil: The first little part of the edge (where you would apply a choil) would stay unsharpened. So: Wouldn´t you end up with the same amount of sharp edge, regardless if the knife has a choil or not?"
Alistair Phillips:"Yeah I guess it depends on how close you can bring that un-sharpened section to the plunge of the grind. It would depend also on what sharpening system you are using."
To me that does not sound like he´d put in a choil mainly to achieve MORE sharpened edge than there would be without.
Top three going by pocket-time (update March 24):
- EDC: Endura thin red line ffg combo edge (VG10); Wayne Goddard PE (4V), Endela SE (VG10)
-Mountains/outdoors: Pac.Salt 1 SE (H1), Salt 2 SE (LC200N), and also Wayne Goddard PE (4V)
- EDC: Endura thin red line ffg combo edge (VG10); Wayne Goddard PE (4V), Endela SE (VG10)
-Mountains/outdoors: Pac.Salt 1 SE (H1), Salt 2 SE (LC200N), and also Wayne Goddard PE (4V)
Re: Sharpening choils - Why?
I'm still wondering how people have trouble sharpening the base of the blade. Given you must overcome the fact that spyderco didn't do it (usually), once you have it right it's easy to maintain (IF you use stones and not sharpening rods).
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Re: Sharpening choils - Why?
Especially with an edge pro a sharpening choil makes things easier and keeps the stone from digging in and making a recurve. I put a choil on my para 3, but on my PM2 I just decided to sharpen it all the way to the ricasso with a coarse diamond stone. It takes a little more time, but it looks a little better I think.
Re: Sharpening choils - Why?
I don't typically care whether or not a knife has a sharpening choil. Reprofiling a knife with a severely angled plunge grind (Sliverax, Mantra, Positron, etc) is about the only time I've really wanted one.
Of all the things I've lost I miss my mind the most!
Re: Sharpening choils - Why?
Use the small diamond file to touch up the blade when necessary. Problem solved. :)
Can you find it and can it cut? :eek: