Benefits of Sprint Runs

[p_atrick]

From a steel perspective, what does Spyderco learn from their sprint runs? I'm guessing they get a better idea of what the steel needs/wants in terms of heat treat, geometry, etc. But if that steel doesn't return to their lineup, what good is that information? I realize that most steels were not developed with cutlery in mind. Moreover, buying steel is not a simple process; the availability, minimum purchase amount, and the form of the steel all play a role in the viability of the steel for a sprint run. So why go through all the hassle of working with a sprint steel only to not use it again?

[sal]

Hi P_atrick,

Interesting question. First I would have to say that "Passion is the spice in the spirit that makes excellence possible"!

If it were not for the interest in blade steels and variety from you and me, there would be so sprints of any kind. While all steels used in blades have their similarity, like ice cream, they have different "flavors" and characteristics. I'm sure that of all 32 flavors of ice cream, some are preferred by more people. Some people always like to eat the same flavor. They know what to expect and enjoy the experience. Others like to taste different flavors to experience and compare. Experiencing a blade is a personal experience. studying the details, why did they do that? Cutting, sharpening, handling, open/close, deploy, how to carry, where to carry, etc. Your full attention is focused.....that alone is a pleasure.

Obviously, we do it for our customers or I would only be making one off mules.

As a maker, we get to experience the different performances through testing and learning, as well as how to heat treat, form, finish, sharpen and care for . As a customer you get to experiment with the differences. If a steel is not used again, it may be for lack of demand, difficulty to work with, difficulty to acquire, etc. We still retain all of the data acquired in the making and testing of the steel. So we do have that information should we choose to bring it back or you demand it.

sal

[hovan2yourknives]

Then I demand more CRUWEAR...please. Merry Xmas!

[koenigsegg]

I demand regular production 20CV. I feel like you're missing out on a big market segment. Especially if it's only $6 more than S30V

[husq2100]

Since we are DEMANDING (outrageous lol)

My OCD DEMANDS the upcoming REC PM2 in their Para 3 colours be done in CTS 204p, Leave the 10v/15v for another colour combo

I also DEMAND the DLT Tan 20CV be done in Para 3 and Military

I also DEMAND the Elamx PM2 version in Para 3 and Military

well thats a start of my demands.... I have no leverage or anything to offer in return.

I wait patiently for your delivery of these requirements

[p_atrick]

Interesting question. First I would have to say that "Passion is the spice in the spirit that makes excellence possible"!

If it were not for the interest in blade steels and variety from you and me, there would be so sprints of any kind. While all steels used in blades have their similarity, like ice cream, they have different "flavors" and characteristics. I'm sure that of all 32 flavors of ice cream, some are preferred by more people. Some people always like to eat the same flavor. They know what to expect and enjoy the experience. Others like to taste different flavors to experience and compare. Experiencing a blade is a personal experience. studying the details, why did they do that? Cutting, sharpening, handling, open/close, deploy, how to carry, where to carry, etc. Your full attention is focused.....that alone is a pleasure.

Obviously, we do it for our customers or I would only be making one off mules.

And this right here is why I like Spyderco so much. At a certain point, a knife is a knife. What you are buying is also the company behind the knife. Once I started to visit this forum on a regular basis, I have a lot more appreciation for what Spyderco does for the knife community. Oh, and their knives are pretty good too. :cool:

[vivi]

Hi P_atrick,

Interesting question. First I would have to say that "Passion is the spice in the spirit that makes excellence possible"!

If it were not for the interest in blade steels and variety from you and me, there would be so sprints of any kind. While all steels used in blades have their similarity, like ice cream, they have different "flavors" and characteristics. I'm sure that of all 32 flavors of ice cream, some are preferred by more people. Some people always like to eat the same flavor. They know what to expect and enjoy the experience. Others like to taste different flavors to experience and compare. Experiencing a blade is a personal experience. studying the details, why did they do that? Cutting, sharpening, handling, open/close, deploy, how to carry, where to carry, etc. Your full attention is focused.....that alone is a pleasure.

Obviously, we do it for our customers or I would only be making one off mules.

As a maker, we get to experience the different performances through testing and learning, as well as how to heat treat, form, finish, sharpen and care for . As a customer you get to experiment with the differences. If a steel is not used again, it may be for lack of demand, difficulty to work with, difficulty to acquire, etc. We still retain all of the data acquired in the making and testing of the steel. So we do have that information should we choose to bring it back or you demand it.

sal

Sal, out of curiosity, what happened with BG42?

I believe it was only used for a single run of the Military folder. I bought one and converted it to tip up carry.

I thought it was neat owning that piece because of the relationship Timken had with producing it. I believe they owned Latrobe around the time that Military was made....or maybe they sold them a year or two prior. I used to drive by the Timken headquarters on my commute. That Military felt like it had a connection to where I lived that I don't feel with a steel from japan, europe, etc.

I ended up selling the knife because I wasn't happy with the edge I could get with BG42, but in retrospect that was a bad decision. I can say with confidence that it was due to my sharpening skills more than anything.

[knivesandbooks]

Interesting, Sal. Always like to hear more about the inner workings of this great company.

I would like more Cru Wear, but in standard production.
It would be cool to see a sprint series of one model, maybe UKPK or Native 5 of older steels like O1, A2, D2, 52100, 1095. I'm familiar with all of these but would be cool to have all of them or many of them in the same model.

[sal]

Hi Vivi,

As I remember, we purchased the BG-42 early on and sat on it for years. Then we decided to make the Military model with the steel. It tested well and sold sell. When we went to purchase more, the price had doubled and put it out of the realm. Then Carpenter made a powdered BG-42, we made a Mule and it got very little attention so we backed off.

sal

[sal]

Hey Knivesandbooks,

All would be unlikely. We're working on some.

sal

[JD Spydo]

I'm curious as to how much demand and popularity along with how many requests it would take to have another Sprint Run of the C-60 Ayoob? And hopefully with a new blade steel the next go-around ( that is if we are fortunate enough to have another Sprint Run of the C-60)

I've loved that particular model for so many years and I've never shown either one of my C-60 models to anyone who didn't like and like it a lot as well.

To me that C-60 Ayoob was so far ahead of it's time in so many ways. So please tell us what it would take to get Spyderco interested in doing another C-60 Ayoob Sprint Run??? And again in a newer/better blade steel too.

[Tucson Tom]

First and foremost, I just have to say: Thank you, thank you for letting us participate in all of this.

Second, I have to say how impressed I am with CTS 204p and 20CV -- these steels definitely are worth considering (in my humble and not terribly well informed opinion) for use in regular production knives. I am glad to see the recent burst of activity with these steels in sprints and exclusives.

[Crux]

I demand that ALL new steels are first tested on the Para 3. Make it the gold standard. The others won't mind, I know them, they're a patient lot.

[vivi]

First and foremost, I just have to say: Thank you, thank you for letting us participate in all of this.

Second, I have to say how impressed I am with CTS 204p and 20CV -- these steels definitely are worth considering (in my humble and not terribly well informed opinion) for use in regular production knives. I am glad to see the recent burst of activity with these steels in sprints and exclusives.

If the price was ever low enough to make it feasible, I would like to see 204P become Spydercos new S30V. I used it on the Military and it left me quite impressed. No corrosion issues, took a fantastic edge, held it a very long time, and sharpened surprisingly easy given the other properties of the steel. I never pushed the edge angle crazy low (Though I did not leave it stock!) and never tried to test the toughness outside of normal usage, but it struck me as a very balanced steel that offers a noticeable upgrade over S30V. I say all this as someone perfectly content with an S30V knife in my pocket.

[bigboned]

Then I demand more CRUWEAR...please. Merry Xmas!

This please

[anagarika]

First and foremost, I just have to say: Thank you, thank you for letting us participate in all of this.

Second, I have to say how impressed I am with CTS 204p and 20CV -- these steels definitely are worth considering (in my humble and not terribly well informed opinion) for use in regular production knives. I am glad to see the recent burst of activity with these steels in sprints and exclusives.

If the price was ever low enough to make it feasible, I would like to see 204P become Spydercos new S30V. I used it on the Military and it left me quite impressed. No corrosion issues, took a fantastic edge, held it a very long time, and sharpened surprisingly easy given the other properties of the steel. I never pushed the edge angle crazy low (Though I did not leave it stock!) and never tried to test the toughness outside of normal usage, but it struck me as a very balanced steel that offers a noticeable upgrade over S30V. I say all this as someone perfectly content with an S30V knife in my pocket.

Lockback please.

Anyway, thank you Sal for V-Toku2, on the Endura. Didn’t like detent based model enough to get the 52100, it (V-Toku2) is probably the closest I can get. Maybe way off though :o

[anagarika]

Oops. Accidentally quoting myself.

[nope]

From a steel perspective, what does Spyderco learn from their sprint runs?

That it's a useful marketing tool to trick people into paying more money for something that isn't really better than what they already own.

Basically there's three levels of steel out there these days for folding knives:

1) 420hc

2) s30v

3) s90v

the rest is literally BS

[Tucson Tom]

First and foremost, I just have to say: Thank you, thank you for letting us participate in all of this.

Second, I have to say how impressed I am with CTS 204p and 20CV -- these steels definitely are worth considering (in my humble and not terribly well informed opinion) for use in regular production knives. I am glad to see the recent burst of activity with these steels in sprints and exclusives.

If the price was ever low enough to make it feasible, I would like to see 204P become Spydercos new S30V. I used it on the Military and it left me quite impressed. No corrosion issues, took a fantastic edge, held it a very long time, and sharpened surprisingly easy given the other properties of the steel. I never pushed the edge angle crazy low (Though I did not leave it stock!) and never tried to test the toughness outside of normal usage, but it struck me as a very balanced steel that offers a noticeable upgrade over S30V. I say all this as someone perfectly content with an S30V knife in my pocket.

Lockback please.

Lockback? Are you thinking of the Manix lockback? If so, I heartily agree on any rerun of that knife with interesting steels. I tend to lean more toward hard use steels like M4 on that knife. What a great knife. I just gave each of my sons one for a Christmas gift.

But back to 204P -- it really is a nice balance. I always think (but could be wrong) that Spyderco only makes limited use of non-stainless steels on regular production knives, and that rules out things like REX 45 or Cruwear (though Cruwear almost makes it) that we might love to see. But with 204P you get a really nice stainless steel that outperforms S30V and has a great sharpening response. I'll take it over the SxxV series because of how it sharpens. What I don't know a thing about is cost and supply issues, but if those aren't a barrier, I say go for it.

And that leads into something else I have thought about. I am thinking of the Backlock Manix and S30V -- I think a lot of people are bored with S30V. Right or wrong (and buying the Backlock Manix actually made me rethink my attitude towards S30V). I actually think sales might have been better with a more up to date steel to spice up the model. Same for the Shaman. I'll just say it -- I wish both of those models had been made with 204P or 20CV and I think the sales might have / might be better. But what do I know?

[vivi]

People these days do seem fixated on materials more than design.

Personally, I'll take a knife in 440C, BD1, VG10, S30V or 204P if I like the design enough. All these steels have their benefits and drawbacks.

In fact, tonight I have a BD1 folder, 420HC multitool, and VG10 fixed blade with me. Design, ergonomics, reliability, warranty and other factors often matter to me as much or more than base materials.