Reality-Check please: Are our VG10 Knives slowly poisoning us?

Discuss Spyderco's products and history.
User avatar
SpyderEdgeForever
Member
Posts: 6301
Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2012 6:53 pm
Location: USA

Reality-Check please: Are our VG10 Knives slowly poisoning us?

Postby SpyderEdgeForever » Fri Nov 16, 2018 11:39 pm

I do not want to sound paranoid or sensational, this is a sincere question. Some time back there was a thread on the forum here about VG10 and other cobalt-containing steel alloys for a "space/astronaut" knife, and it was commented that the naturally-occuring isotope of the cobalt atom, cobalt 59, can tramsmute into cobalt-60, a radioactive isotope that emits gamma rays. As you may well know, gamma rays are the most powerful known radioactive rays, more so than x-rays, and gamma rays are very detrimental to biological life.

Now, I love VG10 stainless steel. It is one of my favorites. And Spyderco crafts excellent knives made with VG10 blades.

I need a "reality check" here: Could our VG10 blades transmute into toxic radioactive knives and slowly poison us, or, not?

Read these:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cobalt-60#Applications

https://petpitchusa.wordpress.com/2012/ ... amination/

Now what happened there was that cobalt 60 was improperly disposed of and contaminated the steel bowls and other items. That is different than transmutation but it raises the same basic issue.

I love my Endura, Delica, and other VG10 knives. Does this mean we have to switch to a non-cobalt steel, like H1, or LC200N?

User avatar
SpyderEdgeForever
Member
Posts: 6301
Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2012 6:53 pm
Location: USA

Re: Reality-Check please: Are our VG10 Knives slowly poisoning us?

Postby SpyderEdgeForever » Fri Nov 16, 2018 11:41 pm

And here is a great article by Larrin and the Knife Nerds on Cobalt Steel:

https://knifesteelnerds.com/2018/05/14/ ... -in-vg-10/

500Nitro
Member
Posts: 703
Joined: Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:56 am
Location: Australia

Re: Reality-Check please: Are our VG10 Knives slowly poisoning us?

Postby 500Nitro » Fri Nov 16, 2018 11:54 pm

Excuse me for a minute while I put on my tin foil hat.

Sorry, this reminds me of the Anti Nuclear protestors who got local councils here in Aus to put Nuclesr Free Zone signs all over the place.

Including outside a few hospitals that produced more Nuclear waste than anyone else!
Attachments
IMG_5714.JPG
IMG_5714.JPG (31.49 KiB) Viewed 1702 times
3 x Endura 1 SE, 1 x Endura ? CE and a Black Pacific Salt. Want Aqua Salt, Fish Hunter and a Pacific Salt Yellow.

User avatar
jabba359
Member
Posts: 4759
Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2006 11:07 pm
Location: North Hollywood, CA U.S.A. Earth
Contact:

Re: Reality-Check please: Are our VG10 Knives slowly poisoning us?

Postby jabba359 » Sat Nov 17, 2018 12:09 am

I think the answer is "yes". My first Spyderco was a C35 Q with 440C steel in 1997. It took me four more years to get my second Spyderco, a blue handle Delica SE with ATS-55 in 2001. Eight years later, I got my third Spyderco, in 2009 a Caly 3 with VG-10. Now, stick with me here. Prior to getting the Caly3, I had very little need to buy many knives over the years, but after getting that VG-10 bladed knife, I came down with a sickness, for that same year I compulsively bought an Adventura (also with VG-10). And my sickness only grew worse. After only buying those four Spyderco's over the course of 12 years, my Spydiesickness caused me to -over the ensuing 8 years- add almost 150 more Spydercos to my collection! This only happened to me *after* acquiring a VG-10 bladed knife!

The good thing is that I seem to be slowly getting better, as I've only added 3 more Spyderco knives to my collection in the past year. Just like iocane powder, I've managed to build up a tolerance and can now avoid the fate that this poison usually carries.
Last edited by jabba359 on Sat Nov 17, 2018 12:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
-Kyle

:spyder:
Latest arrivals: Spydiewiki Maxamet Manix 2, 2018 Spyderco Forum Para 2, Super Blue Calypso Jr.

http://www.spydiewiki.com

500Nitro
Member
Posts: 703
Joined: Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:56 am
Location: Australia

Re: Reality-Check please: Are our VG10 Knives slowly poisoning us?

Postby 500Nitro » Sat Nov 17, 2018 12:12 am

To the OP, I'd be more worried about where you come into contact with Benzene in your house than Cobalt.!
3 x Endura 1 SE, 1 x Endura ? CE and a Black Pacific Salt. Want Aqua Salt, Fish Hunter and a Pacific Salt Yellow.

User avatar
Doc Dan
Member
Posts: 7018
Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2012 4:25 am
Location: In a dimension as vast as space and as timeless as infinity.

Re: Reality-Check please: Are our VG10 Knives slowly poisoning us?

Postby Doc Dan » Sat Nov 17, 2018 12:19 am

And Radon is a far larger problem!

I think the cobalt issue is a bit far out, truthfully. Show me the proof.
I Pray Heaven to Bestow The Best of Blessing on THIS HOUSE, and on ALL that shall hereafter Inhabit it. May none but Honest and Wise Men ever rule under This Roof! (John Adams regarding the White House)

"Until we meet again, may the good Lord take a liking to you."
(Roy Rogers)


NRA Life Member
Spydernation 0050

SF Native
Member
Posts: 1186
Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2016 8:25 am
Location: Fairfax, Ca

Re: Reality-Check please: Are our VG10 Knives slowly poisoning us?

Postby SF Native » Sat Nov 17, 2018 12:31 am

Probably as problematic as the radioactive potassium in bananas.

500Nitro
Member
Posts: 703
Joined: Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:56 am
Location: Australia

Re: Reality-Check please: Are our VG10 Knives slowly poisoning us?

Postby 500Nitro » Sat Nov 17, 2018 12:37 am

The reason I mentioned Benzene was becausee service personnel were exposed to huge quantities during fuel tank cleaning and it became a big issue - in the US, UK and AUS.

But I never saw the dangers carry over to its use in civvy street products.


To the OP
When I was at school, in our chemistry class we had a piece of highly radioactive material (probably uranium) that I remember made the Geiger counter go off the scale when removed from its lead box.
3 x Endura 1 SE, 1 x Endura ? CE and a Black Pacific Salt. Want Aqua Salt, Fish Hunter and a Pacific Salt Yellow.

JD Spydo
Member
Posts: 16335
Joined: Tue Sep 28, 2004 7:53 pm
Location: Blue Springs, Missouri

Re: Reality-Check please: Are our VG10 Knives slowly poisoning us?

Postby JD Spydo » Sat Nov 17, 2018 12:56 am

Well SEF I don't consider your opening post weird at all. Because there are some metals that have extremely toxic properties. Mercury being the first that comes to mind. Also an old girlfriend of mine who used to work with MRI equipment ( she was actually a technician) and she told me that those MRI units had some of the internal metals in the machine were considered toxic but the patient was normally well shielded.
When I worked in a power plant I did some welding and we were always warned about cadmium and other surfaces we would encounter and had to take measures to avoid toxic gases while welding. No indeed there are toxic metals that you need to be aware of. As far as radioactivity goes I'm not very knowledgeable about that as far as what to avoid>> but I am doubtful if the minute amount of certain exotic alloys in a knife blade would be of much concern>>but if someone knows something I don't concerning cobalt, niobium and other exotic metals I'm all ears. I do kind of doubt that a reputable steel company like Crucible, Carpenter or Bohler Uddeholm would produce anything that would be excessively toxic, especially where food contact is likely.

500Nitro
Member
Posts: 703
Joined: Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:56 am
Location: Australia

Re: Reality-Check please: Are our VG10 Knives slowly poisoning us?

Postby 500Nitro » Sat Nov 17, 2018 1:00 am

Who's got San old watch from the 70's/80's with glow in the dark hands.

Don't stick it next to a Geiger counter, some make them tell you it's not good to wear them.

Forgotten what the name of the stuff is.
3 x Endura 1 SE, 1 x Endura ? CE and a Black Pacific Salt. Want Aqua Salt, Fish Hunter and a Pacific Salt Yellow.

ladybug93
Member
Posts: 799
Joined: Tue May 15, 2018 11:20 pm

Re: Reality-Check please: Are our VG10 Knives slowly poisoning us?

Postby ladybug93 » Sat Nov 17, 2018 1:02 am

you may be on to something... my delica used to be black and now it looks like this! :eek:
Image

User avatar
Bloke
Member
Posts: 3594
Joined: Fri May 13, 2016 12:43 am
Location: Sydney, Australia.

Re: Reality-Check please: Are our VG10 Knives slowly poisoning us?

Postby Bloke » Sat Nov 17, 2018 1:04 am

SpyderEdgeForever wrote:
Fri Nov 16, 2018 11:39 pm
gamma rays are the most powerful known radioactive rays
Image
A day without laughter is a day wasted. ~ Charlie Chaplin

Bill1170
Member
Posts: 1740
Joined: Tue Oct 20, 2009 7:34 pm
Location: San Diego North County

Re: Reality-Check please: Are our VG10 Knives slowly poisoning us?

Postby Bill1170 » Sat Nov 17, 2018 1:18 am

SpyderEdgeForever wrote:
Fri Nov 16, 2018 11:39 pm
I do not want to sound paranoid or sensational, this is a sincere question. Some time back there was a thread on the forum here about VG10 and other cobalt-containing steel alloys for a "space/astronaut" knife, and it was commented that the naturally-occuring isotope of the cobalt atom, cobalt 59, can tramsmute into cobalt-60, a radioactive isotope that emits gamma rays. As you may well know, gamma rays are the most powerful known radioactive rays, more so than x-rays, and gamma rays are very detrimental to biological life.

Now, I love VG10 stainless steel. It is one of my favorites. And Spyderco crafts excellent knives made with VG10 blades.

I need a "reality check" here: Could our VG10 blades transmute into toxic radioactive knives and slowly poison us, or, not?

Read these:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cobalt-60#Applications

https://petpitchusa.wordpress.com/2012/ ... amination/

Now what happened there was that cobalt 60 was improperly disposed of and contaminated the steel bowls and other items. That is different than transmutation but it raises the same basic issue.

I love my Endura, Delica, and other VG10 knives. Does this mean we have to switch to a non-cobalt steel, like H1, or LC200N?
No. Cobalt 59 does not spontaneously transmute into cobalt 60, except in nuclear reactors. Keep your knives out of nuclear reactors and you’ll be fine.

500Nitro
Member
Posts: 703
Joined: Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:56 am
Location: Australia

Re: Reality-Check please: Are our VG10 Knives slowly poisoning us?

Postby 500Nitro » Sat Nov 17, 2018 1:19 am

ladybug93 wrote:
Sat Nov 17, 2018 1:02 am
you may be on to something... my delica used to be black and now it looks like this! :eek:
Image
👏👏👏 LOL


The radioisotope They put in your body to test during medical procedures is enough to set off nuclear detectors at borders. It emits Gamma Rays. It must do otherwise if it didn't escape the body you could see where the problem was.
3 x Endura 1 SE, 1 x Endura ? CE and a Black Pacific Salt. Want Aqua Salt, Fish Hunter and a Pacific Salt Yellow.

SF Native
Member
Posts: 1186
Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2016 8:25 am
Location: Fairfax, Ca

Re: Reality-Check please: Are our VG10 Knives slowly poisoning us?

Postby SF Native » Sat Nov 17, 2018 1:38 am

500Nitro wrote:
Sat Nov 17, 2018 1:00 am
Who's got San old watch from the 70's/80's with glow in the dark hands.

Don't stick it next to a Geiger counter, some make them tell you it's not good to wear them.

Forgotten what the name of the stuff is.
Don’t know, but the Ball watch company uses tritium gas tubes to light their watches. Radioactive and stay lit all night. Cool. Not particularly dangerous.

500Nitro
Member
Posts: 703
Joined: Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:56 am
Location: Australia

Re: Reality-Check please: Are our VG10 Knives slowly poisoning us?

Postby 500Nitro » Sat Nov 17, 2018 1:46 am

It was Radiim and Promethium.

I know from a military pilots forum I am in that the dials in older military aircraft were radioactive.
3 x Endura 1 SE, 1 x Endura ? CE and a Black Pacific Salt. Want Aqua Salt, Fish Hunter and a Pacific Salt Yellow.

User avatar
npad69
Member
Posts: 484
Joined: Tue Apr 21, 2015 10:07 pm
Location: Palawan, Philippines

Re: Reality-Check please: Are our VG10 Knives slowly poisoning us?

Postby npad69 » Sat Nov 17, 2018 4:52 am

Image

User avatar
RadioactiveSpyder
Member
Posts: 3726
Joined: Sat Mar 30, 2013 9:48 pm
Location: Lost in space

Re: Reality-Check please: Are our VG10 Knives slowly poisoning us?

Postby RadioactiveSpyder » Sat Nov 17, 2018 6:04 am

Reality check from a PhD in radiation health effects: the answer is NO! SEF, I really wish you would stop starting these kinds of radiophobic threads, they are not doing anyone any favors and you are contributing to a paranoia that has existed since the 1940s that simply doesn’t exist. It’s simply been over-hyped by Hollywood and you’ve fallen directly into that trap.

You know what else is radioactive? Bananas and potato chips!! Those have far more measurable activity in them than any Spyderco knife. Going to stop eating those, or eating in general? You get far more exposure from a variety of natural and man-made sources than anything you could possibly get by living in a house of VG-10 and eating it daily. Please stop this nonsense or at least leave it in Off-Topic (a section I rarely visit).
It's better to be good than evil, but one achieves goodness at a terrific cost. ––– Stephen King

User avatar
PayneTrain
Member
Posts: 1494
Joined: Sun Mar 02, 2014 12:30 pm
Location: CT

Re: Reality-Check please: Are our VG10 Knives slowly poisoning us?

Postby PayneTrain » Sat Nov 17, 2018 6:28 am

I think a more practical health concern is making sure you clean your knife between sharpening and using it on food. Sure, your body needs iron, but no, your body doesn't want cobalt. Nor does it want chromium or tungsten or vanadium or most of the other things knives are made of. So if you are like me and use your knives for eatin', it's good hygiene to give your knife a good wipe after sharpening before pushing it through an apple. Don't eat your swarf!

Other than that, just do all the things your mama told you and you should be ok. Eat your veggies, don't play in the road, be nice to girls, and hold the pointy end away from you!
"Be the person your dog thinks you are."

User avatar
Evil D
Member
Posts: 20021
Joined: Sat Jun 26, 2010 9:48 pm
Location: Northern KY

Re: Reality-Check please: Are our VG10 Knives slowly poisoning us?

Postby Evil D » Sat Nov 17, 2018 7:55 am

SEF you'll get more radiation from one trip to Grand Central Station than using VG10 everyday for the rest of your life.
SHARPEN IT LIKE YOU LOVE IT, USE IT LIKE YOU HATE IT
~David


Return to “Spyderco General Discussion”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], BLUETYPEII, GiftedMisfit, Google [Bot], Jazz, Marulaghost, Mr.B., Mushroom, p_atrick, Supacede and 26 guests