Is this edge wear normal?

Discuss Spyderco's products and history.
blueblur
Member
Posts: 272
Joined: Wed May 10, 2017 3:09 pm
Location: The Keystone State

Re: Is this edge wear normal?

Postby blueblur » Sat Oct 20, 2018 6:24 am

I was going to post a similar post to what pelagic and vivi said. I’d sharpen to 15 deg per side to get to fresh steel and then touch up with a micro bevel as needed.

User avatar
awa54
Member
Posts: 2373
Joined: Thu Jun 18, 2015 9:54 am
Location: Vermont, USA
Contact:

Re: Is this edge wear normal?

Postby awa54 » Sat Oct 20, 2018 7:15 am

IMO, S110V is easiest,most effective and makes best use of the steels strengths by finishing with a fairly coarse micro bevel at 400 to 800 grit. Higher grit (finer edge polish) may give a slightly smoother cut in some media, but it doesn't last long and once gone the remaining edge isn't as aggressive as if it had been finished coarser in the first place.
-David

still more knives than sharpening stones...

User avatar
tps3443
Member
Posts: 360
Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2018 12:56 pm

Re: Is this edge wear normal?

Postby tps3443 » Sat Oct 20, 2018 11:35 am

Skidoosh wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 3:46 am
I had a similar experience with S110V. I ended up selling the knife. Yes its normal.
No reason to sell the knife. S110V is awesome, I used the knife all week. And it shaved my arm hair clean on saturday. That is impressive. The tiny micro chip that barely is a chip it’s self was my own fault. I cut in a box going to deep with very large brass, and steel, and copper compression fittings. If it were S30V, it would have just taken the edge clean off without a chip. Well the shiny line on the tip of my edge that contacted the metal still shaves.

If I wouldn’t have hit metal yesterday I’d be going another week with a like new edge, that has never been touched up, or sharpened.

I have a Tenacious. And it really gets on my nerves that it is only effective to slice up cardboard quickly for a few hours. Then it becomes sluggish, and ripping the cardboard with bare hands is just as fast, or faster.

I’m waiting on my angle finder to arrive. It won’t be here until Monday. Then I will use my Wicked Edge for the first time.
“My daily razor blade”
Spyderco PM2 DLC/BLK S30V
Microtech Dirac Delta CTS-204P
^Wicked Edge guided system^

AccountDeletedUserRequest
Member
Posts: 6612
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2007 8:15 am

Re: Is this edge wear normal?

Postby AccountDeletedUserRequest » Sat Oct 20, 2018 3:53 pm

tps3443 wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 11:35 am
Skidoosh wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 3:46 am
I had a similar experience with S110V. I ended up selling the knife. Yes its normal.
No reason to sell the knife. S110V is awesome, I used the knife all week. And it shaved my arm hair clean on saturday. That is impressive. The tiny micro chip that barely is a chip it’s self was my own fault. I cut in a box going to deep with very large brass, and steel, and copper compression fittings. If it were S30V, it would have just taken the edge clean off without a chip. Well the shiny line on the tip of my edge that contacted the metal still shaves.

If I wouldn’t have hit metal yesterday I’d be going another week with a like new edge, that has never been touched up, or sharpened.

I have a Tenacious. And it really gets on my nerves that it is only effective to slice up cardboard quickly for a few hours. Then it becomes sluggish, and ripping the cardboard with bare hands is just as fast, or faster.

I’m waiting on my angle finder to arrive. It won’t be here until Monday. Then I will use my Wicked Edge for the first time.
Edge holding increases as sharpening skills do.

Also, lower grit edges work better for cardboard than polished edges. This is true for many EDC tasks. People fawn over that mirror edge look, but it's worse for a lotof things people use their knives for.

User avatar
emanuel
Member
Posts: 241
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2018 7:51 am

Re: Is this edge wear normal?

Postby emanuel » Sun Oct 21, 2018 5:37 am

supracor wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 1:07 am
I sharpen all my knives on Alox sandpaper or on Alox/SiC stones
Well SiC is slightly harder than VC, so it will cut it, but at how small the carbide grains are on these powdered steels compared to the grit of the sharpening material, it doesn't really matter tbh. Besides stropping with micron sized particles, all low grit abrasives cut the steel matrix itself, not the carbides.

OP, I believe the factory edge on my paramilitary s110v was about 17 degrees. Going 15 is probably your best bet. If you don't like it's stability, you can always easily microbevel from there to 20dps. That's looks like burr to me, I can guarantee the issue will disappear after a resharpening. I hit screws and staples all the time with my knife, never had an issue. If you hit it at 90°, no issue will ever occur, the steel is many magnitudes higher strength and hardness than some random piece of iron.

User avatar
supracor
Member
Posts: 303
Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2018 11:34 am

Re: Is this edge wear normal?

Postby supracor » Sun Oct 21, 2018 6:35 am

emanuel wrote:
Sun Oct 21, 2018 5:37 am
SiC is slightly harder than VC

I've seen contrastants data reports, where sometimes VC is harder and sometimes SiC is harder.
It's to consider that the shape, the size and the orientation of the crystals is an important factor on how they behave.

Shooter4321
Member
Posts: 10
Joined: Thu Jul 27, 2017 11:34 am

Re: Is this edge wear normal?

Postby Shooter4321 » Sun Oct 21, 2018 11:16 am

My S90v Military gets really really small chips, so small that I need a 15x lupe to see them, and I can barely feel them with slicing paper or running my fingernail over the edge . My first sharpening were with Shapton glass, 320, 500 and stroppping with BRKT black and green compound I could get a great edge but that edge didn’t last as long as it does now and it chipped fairly easy. I ordered the CKTG edge pro diamond plates and not only has it made sharpening very easy, but I noticed less and less chipping...I have yet to remove all the micro chips but again, I don’t notice them in any cutting tasks I’m using it for..The edge I’m using now is at 20 degrees per and 1k diamond with some stropping on balsa wood and 1 micron diamond paste..much better edge holding and stability then before..

User avatar
tps3443
Member
Posts: 360
Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2018 12:56 pm

Re: Is this edge wear normal?

Postby tps3443 » Sun Oct 21, 2018 8:11 pm

My chip on my S110V was removed on the bottom of a coffee cup. I couldn’t believe it. It was tiny and wasn’t really much of a chip at all.

I know S110V works best with a toothy edge and a slightly polished micro bevel. I don’t care about mirror edges, I just want pure sharpness!

Tomorrow I’m going to start on the wicked edge after work. Im doing 30 degrees inclusive on 200 grit diamonds, then I will hit it at 600 grit diamonds at 30 inclusive. Then I will move to probably 38 degrees micro bevel with 600 Diamonds and finish with the 10/14 micro diamond leather strop. I will experiment, and try some different techniques. But, I highly doubt I will ever do a mirror edge. I think that takes hours and hours to do.
“My daily razor blade”
Spyderco PM2 DLC/BLK S30V
Microtech Dirac Delta CTS-204P
^Wicked Edge guided system^

User avatar
Bloke
Member
Posts: 4513
Joined: Fri May 13, 2016 12:43 am
Location: Sydney, Australia.

Re: Is this edge wear normal?

Postby Bloke » Sun Oct 21, 2018 9:17 pm

tps3443 wrote:
Sun Oct 21, 2018 8:11 pm
My chip on my S110V was removed on the bottom of a coffee cup. I couldn’t believe it. It was tiny and wasn’t really much of a chip at all.

I know S110V works best with a toothy edge and a slightly polished micro bevel. I don’t care about mirror edges, I just want pure sharpness!

Tomorrow I’m going to start on the wicked edge after work. Im doing 30 degrees inclusive on 200 grit diamonds, then I will hit it at 600 grit diamonds at 30 inclusive. Then I will move to probably 38 degrees micro bevel with 600 Diamonds and finish with the 10/14 micro diamond leather strop. I will experiment, and try some different techniques. But, I highly doubt I will ever do a mirror edge. I think that takes hours and hours to do.
If I may, I’d like to suggest you set a 30deg bevel with nothing over 600grit then strop very, very lightly on whatever strop you have. I would also strongly recommend you do not strop until you have eliminated any sign of a detectable burr.

Use the knife till it needs a touch up and use a micro bevel then.

Happy Sharpening! :)
A day without laughter is a day wasted. ~ Charlie Chaplin

User avatar
emanuel
Member
Posts: 241
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2018 7:51 am

Re: Is this edge wear normal?

Postby emanuel » Mon Oct 22, 2018 12:31 am

awa54 wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 7:15 am
IMO, S110V is easiest,most effective and makes best use of the steels strengths by finishing with a fairly coarse micro bevel at 400 to 800 grit. Higher grit (finer edge polish) may give a slightly smoother cut in some media, but it doesn't last long and once gone the remaining edge isn't as aggressive as if it had been finished coarser in the first place.
I don't know why this misconception is getting spread so much. The difference in edge retention between polished and toothy in s110v/s90v is ~10% or less based on tests done by multiple people on this forum/youtube etc. I started liking polished edges on high carbide steels lately, and giving away 10% edge retention is pretty much nothing imho since you get way more flexibility compared to the uses of a toothy edge and the quality of the cuts is better. Also, high carbide steels don't blunt the same way as 52100 or other simple steels do. They don't get smooth and blunt, they get microserations and slowly become less and less aggressive cutting.

What I do like about a 800 grit microbevel finish is how I can get it back to hair splitting sharpness with 3-5 passes on each side on the diamond plate. That's definitely a plus over a polished edge that people should consider. No grit progression needed.

AccountDeletedUserRequest
Member
Posts: 6612
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2007 8:15 am

Re: Is this edge wear normal?

Postby AccountDeletedUserRequest » Mon Oct 22, 2018 1:21 am

Controlled testing and someone's EDC usage can be quite different. Also, sharpening skill influences results dramatically. Someone that can get hair popping sharp edges off a DMT Extra Course will get different results than someone that needs to go up past 1000 grit to get that level of sharpness.

Lots of variables at play. The best solution is try different grit finishes on your knives, using them how you normally use your EDC. Your results might be different than mine or the next persons.

zenarcher82
Member
Posts: 1
Joined: Mon Oct 22, 2018 5:39 pm

Re: Is this edge wear normal?

Postby zenarcher82 » Mon Oct 22, 2018 5:57 pm

i see a lot of posts in this forum and ones like this. i know everyone wants to get an edge with with a mirror finish and sharp as a straight razor. i too have been guilty. a knife maker i know had this to say about that. if you need a knife to shave with then by all means put that mirror and razor edge on it. if you don't sharpen to where it can cut with minimal resistance what you need to cut. anything more than that is removing more metal than necessary and shortening the life of the blade.

User avatar
awa54
Member
Posts: 2373
Joined: Thu Jun 18, 2015 9:54 am
Location: Vermont, USA
Contact:

Re: Is this edge wear normal?

Postby awa54 » Mon Oct 22, 2018 5:58 pm

emanuel wrote:
Mon Oct 22, 2018 12:31 am
awa54 wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 7:15 am
IMO, S110V is easiest,most effective and makes best use of the steels strengths by finishing with a fairly coarse micro bevel at 400 to 800 grit. Higher grit (finer edge polish) may give a slightly smoother cut in some media, but it doesn't last long and once gone the remaining edge isn't as aggressive as if it had been finished coarser in the first place.
I don't know why this misconception is getting spread so much. The difference in edge retention between polished and toothy in s110v/s90v is ~10% or less based on tests done by multiple people on this forum/youtube etc. I started liking polished edges on high carbide steels lately, and giving away 10% edge retention is pretty much nothing imho since you get way more flexibility compared to the uses of a toothy edge and the quality of the cuts is better. Also, high carbide steels don't blunt the same way as 52100 or other simple steels do. They don't get smooth and blunt, they get microserations and slowly become less and less aggressive cutting.

What I do like about a 800 grit microbevel finish is how I can get it back to hair splitting sharpness with 3-5 passes on each side on the diamond plate. That's definitely a plus over a polished edge that people should consider. No grit progression needed.

YMMV, but my experiments with Spyderco S110V lead me to the conclusion that the final degree of polished-edge sharpness lasts for just a few cuts before falling back to the level of "very sharp", where a coarser edge maintains at "cuts like a buzzsaw" for days or weeks of regular use.

M390-ish steels OTOH...
-David

still more knives than sharpening stones...


Return to “Spyderco General Discussion”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Ankerson, Rinzler and 15 guests