Missing 411: Really Strange

[MichaelScott]

There is an online database of National Park Missing persons. Find it here: https://www.nps.gov/orgs/1563/cold-cases.htm


One example, “Name: Drake Kramer

Missing from: Grand Canyon National Park

Date Missing: January 31, 2015

Description: Kramer was 21 years old at the time he went missing. White male, 5’08” tall, 140 pounds, brown hair and blue eyes. Wears dark colored clothes and is known to wear a backwards ball cap or dark colored bandana on his head. Drove a silver Mazda 6 sedan to the park.

Case Info: Kramer was last seen at the Bright Angel Lodge and is believed to be suicidal. The search for Kramer is in continuous, limited mode.”

So you are wrong about “that disturbing thing.”

What is “not normal”? Facts would help.

Please supply sources (not from Big Foot or alien abduction sites, please) for your claim about the “child of 3or 4” [sic].

And, no, Paulides isn’t “just presenting facts”.

I don’t expect a reply in the spirit of discussing these topics with the aim of discovering either the truth, or the most rational explanations. But, I thought I would lodge some reasonable objections just for the record.

Thank you.

[O,just,O]

I have looked very intently at this subject because of my personal involvement.
Let me just say that if you are comfortable by looking away at that river in Egypt, denial, then look away but do it with out pseudo knowledgeable comment .
JD, you should not have brought this subject up on this forum & opened yourself to the slings & arrows of the ignorant.
I can tell you what is going on here & even you would still find it hard to grasp & I would get banned.
Hint, look deep at why little is done about it.
O.

[cabfrank]

I doubt you'd get banned for sharing your opinion.

[The Deacon]

I don’t expect a reply in the spirit of discussing these topics with the aim of discovering either the truth, or the most rational explanations. But, I thought I would lodge some reasonable objections just for the record.

Thank you.

Michael, I've come to the conclusion that ghosts, cryptids, and visitors from other planets have a lot in common with deities. In each case, you have similar groups. There are the believers, who are certain one or more of these them exist and will rarely, if ever stop believing. Then you have the skeptics/agnostics who doubt, but do not completely deny these things exist. And, of course, you have the atheists and their counterparts who are as certain these things do not exist as the believers are that they do, and about as unlikely to begin believing. Some fall into one group across the board. Others may believe in one, be skeptical of another, and find a third too absurd to consider. You will also have those who find the belief of others can be profitable to them.

[MichaelScott]

Paul, I agree. I’m more of a skeptic who has become aware of how much I don’t know and how much of what I think I know may not be right. It’s difficult to critique oneself.

I’m learning to be less judgmental but it’s not easy. I depend on evidence. What is not supported by evidence and reason is belief.

[Doc Dan]

I actually have a scientific theory regarding ghosts. We are pretty sure space/time has holes in it. If you notice, all ghosts are past. It is entirely possible that people get a glimpse of a hole in time and see what was then, but it is not a present reality. It is like looking through a window in time that does not allow us to cross. They are not really ghosts, at all.

[awa54]

I used to watch "In search of" when I was a kid. Now something like it is on 24-7-365 with the various tabloid-esqe TV networks available on cable or satellite. *and of course You Tube channels!

Science will probably never quantify everything, but that doesn't mean that everything which isn't straight forward is a conspiracy or a paranormal event.

I'm not sure how the so many people in the US got turned away from scientific thought, but it seems like rationality is now equated with eliteism and is a thing to be scorned.

Oh well, I'm sure I'll be incredibly taken aback when a bigfoot (or black-ops unit) kidnaps me from my local state park, I'll have become a believer too late

[O,just,O]

I doubt you'd get banned for sharing your opinion.

Oh yes I will. This is a hot potatoe & I have been warned before by admin.
Truth is that this forum is not the place for these things.
O.

[SpyderScout]

I'm not sure how the so many people in the US got turned away from scientific thought, but it seems like rationality is now equated with eliteism and is a thing to be scorned.

Some people (not just in the US) are vehemently against vaccines. They cant be reasoned with (either) and are the furthest from rational on this point.

Sadly some of the things happening at times reads like a book by Edward Gibbon*









*'The History of the Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire.'

[Sjucaveman]

I’ve read 3 of Paulides books and if what he is documenting is accurate there is some very strange things going on in our wilds.
Even if it is a super small percentage of the population that is affected by this doesn’t mean something odd isn’t going on and I give the guy a bit a credit for depth of investigating that he does.

Oh all the posts I've read on this thread you are the only one who ever seemed to have checked out either one of David Paulides books or ever watched one of his videos. I think you see what I mean by some extremely strange and un-explained circumstances surrounding these cases that David Paulides has investigated. Some of these incidents of finding the missing person's clothes being neatly folded and their shoes being removed>>or finding very young kids at extremely high locations on mountains or hills when there is no possible way that the kid could get there on their own physical power.

And of the people they do find that very few of them have any memory at all of what happened to them? There are so many super weird circumstances surrounding dozens of these cases that Mr. Paulides has checked out that make no rational sense what so ever. He has documented several cases where they found the missing person's shoes :confused: and who in their right mind is going to hike in forests without their shoes. To top everything off is the lack of interest of the National Park authorities on these missing people>> according to David Paulides the National Parks don't even keep concise records of missing people nor will they make the information they do have available to the public.

This is truly a very strange problem that does without a doubt exists in many of our national parks and forests :confused:

I watched the documentary, it's on hulu if you suscribe I still must say that I believe the most simple explanation is most likely. They wandered off/ got lost, hurt, attacked by animals. I'm sorry I just don't see the evidence to support outlandish explanations.

[ChrisinHove]

You will also have those who find the belief of others can be profitable to them.

Such cynicism in one so young ... [sigh]

(I thought your religion analogy spot on.)

[ChrisinHove]

I actually have a scientific theory regarding ghosts. We are pretty sure space/time has holes in it. If you notice, all ghosts are past. It is entirely possible that people get a glimpse of a hole in time and see what was then, but it is not a present reality. It is like looking through a window in time that does not allow us to cross. They are not really ghosts, at all.

Why would only images from the past be seen?

If it’s “physics”, then wouldn’t the chances of the holes in space/time coinciding with specific locations on our little rock hurtling through space be infinitesimally small?

I’ve given myself the heeby-jeebies a few times just thinking about ghosts when crawling around ancient buildings, but I’ve actually seen, felt, heard or sensed no actual evidence.

[cabfrank]

I think the traditional concept of ghosts is much more believable thank the space time holes theory. Maybe both are true though.

[wrdwrght]

Ordinarily, I steer clear of claims like this. To me, their introduction is belief-driven and, owing to logical fallacies that plague us all, they promise divisions among people, as in this forum, asked to weigh the claim.

Though we are entitled to our own beliefs (but NOT to our own facts), I’d rather we keep talk focused on knife facts/opinions and their consequence to understanding and fun, simply to lessen the divisions.

However, if silence implies consent (as it seems now to do in the political abyss, thankfully outlawed here), I must say this (but no more): JD’s argument for this post (and the earlier one on Antarctica) convinces me not at all, owing to some identifiable logical fallacies (regarding which, see https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Logical_fallacy).

[Doc Dan]

I think the time/space argument needs investigating. The past is gone and unlike on Flash, we cannot go back to it. However, that does not mean it cannot be 'viewed' at times, like through a window. That would explain why people only see long dead armies, long dead women and men, and etc. tied to a certain place. Some not understood phenomenon opened a window to allow a view of a past event or person and then closed it again. That's my theory.

[MrMooky]

In 2017 alone over 300 million people visited our National Parks. I think it's safe to say that not all of them are experienced outdoorsmen and women. Many of these parks contain hundreds, sometimes thousands, of square miles of wilderness. Much of that is rugged terrain where it's easy to get lost or injured and die, and there's no guarantee your remains will ever be found.

I don't find it the least bit "weird" when 400 or so have gone missing over the course of several years and were never found. That's barely over one ten thousandth of one percent of one years visitors. I suspect many of them have violated one or more common sense rules, gone off alone, not told anyone where they were planning to hike, not dressed for the terrain or the weather, etc.

On the other hand, I can see such disappearances being tempting fodder for a cryptozoologist and Bigfoot investigator like Mr. Paulides. :rolleyes:

First of all I think your condescending remarks about David Paulides are totally unfounded and baseless. Now you are correct to say that he has a side interest in the alledged sightings of Bigfoot creatures that have been reported in several of these national parks>> but he is far from someone who has no evidence to base his suspicions. But before you make a predisposed judgement against Mr. Paulides we need to take a hard look at his resume> > and his resume is very impressive. He was a highly respected and highly decorated Police Detective in San Franciso California. No the guy is a little above a "door greeter at WalMart" or a guy who fills potholes for some municipal street maintenance department.. No this guy has an impeccable reputation, and his highly educated not only as a former police officer but he is just a really reputable, decent guy all the way around. Believe me I've checked this guy out and he's not your average Bigfoot/Alien believer in the least.

OK with established I think we need to take a look at the hard evidence that he has worked very hard to discover about many of these mysterious disappearing or lost people. First off have you heard at least one of his interviews? Or have you read any of his books or at least one of his blog sites? If not then I think you are doing yourself a disservice but lumping this guy in a bad light when you haven't even given the guy a fair evaluation. I have heard about 6 of his interviews on this subject of National Park missing people from about 4 different radio hosts and he is concise and very detailed in his descriptions and his investigative work. He has done about as thorough of a job investigating these extremely strange disappearances. And he has had very little help (if any at all) from the Federal or National Park authorities. One type of disappearance that stands out are some of the small children vanishing into thin air so to speak. There were 3 couples who were walking with their kids on Nature Trails and all of a sudden the kids literally disappear with no noise, warning or even any sign of a kidnapping or abduction>> no footprints were found and dogs couldn't even pick up their scent. They have found 2 of these children that were abducted and they found them very high up on mountain sides with absolutely no evidence as to how they got there>> and they said that these kids could not have possibly climbed up to where they found them.

Paul I mean this a very friendly, pleasant and diplomatic way. Check out at least 2 of his Youtube videos and go to your library and read at least 2 to 3 chapters in one of his books. Believe me, this is completely different than any "Missing Person's" case that I've ever read about or ever heard about. There are so many circumstances in these cases that have little or no explanation at all. Most of his videos are entitled "Missing 411", David Paulides. Check it out and be objective about it and let me know what you think :)

Apparently you DID NOT look into David well enough! He was not a " highly respected" officer! There is now a group of YouTubers and truth hunters that are all working together to bring him down! We have police records, court documents and much more! We also have statements from families he has contacted that are REALLY I'm pleased with him using them. Much much more will be coming out soon... He us a complete fraud who accuses people and creators stealing his content when it doesn't belong to him at all! He is a bully and a fraud in it for the money. Period!

[MrMooky]

OK I'm back :) Yesterday I was getting so frustrated with some of the responses on this thread that a good friend of mine who was here visiting told me to take 24 hours to chill out and re-think this whole thing. Well I took my good friend's advice and I must say that I'm thinking with a much calmer head and I've really taken a few things in perspective. First all I should have never started this thread to begin with :rolleyes: Because as it appears only a very small percentage of people here care anything about the truth of this issue at all unfortunately. Because judging by the responses I can safely assume that NONE of you all have even looked at any of his materials at all ( videos, books or interviews). So how can you give an objective opinion on something you know virtually nothing about???

Because for someone who has not heard, read about or listened intently to David Paulides on this subject I can understand the healthy skepticism to a degree because like I said the very first time I heard him I even blew it off. But how can you all say that it is all "bogus" when you haven't even checked it out?? But after watching about 4 of his video/interviews and listening to him speak about several unusual aspects surrounding these cases I'm personally to the point to where I do think there is something extremely strange about all of this. Especially with the lost people that they do find that have absolutely no memory about what happened to them. Come on folks!! The guy is a former detective of a major US City for crying out loud!!

My friend also said to me >> "Joe you've just got to face the facts that the TRUTH is not a popular subject to discuss. He went on to say that only a very small percentage of people even care about the truth at all. Also it does bother me as a GOD-fearing human being that hardly no one gives a hoot about the horrible fate that many of these children have suffered. I can't even imagine what some of these caring parents of these missing kids are going through. GOD help us

Oh by the way>> please no more comments unless you at least watch one of his "Missing 411" videos.

Hi David! You are not very good at hiding behind a fake screen name.

[JD Spydo]

OK I'm back :) Yesterday I was getting so frustrated with some of the responses on this thread that a good friend of mine who was here visiting told me to take 24 hours to chill out and re-think this whole thing. Well I took my good friend's advice and I must say that I'm thinking with a much calmer head and I've really taken a few things in perspective. First all I should have never started this thread to begin with :rolleyes: Because as it appears only a very small percentage of people here care anything about the truth of this issue at all unfortunately. Because judging by the responses I can safely assume that NONE of you all have even looked at any of his materials at all ( videos, books or interviews). So how can you give an objective opinion on something you know virtually nothing about???

Because for someone who has not heard, read about or listened intently to David Paulides on this subject I can understand the healthy skepticism to a degree because like I said the very first time I heard him I even blew it off. But how can you all say that it is all "bogus" when you haven't even checked it out?? But after watching about 4 of his video/interviews and listening to him speak about several unusual aspects surrounding these cases I'm personally to the point to where I do think there is something extremely strange about all of this. Especially with the lost people that they do find that have absolutely no memory about what happened to them. Come on folks!! The guy is a former detective of a major US City for crying out loud!!

My friend also said to me >> "Joe you've just got to face the facts that the TRUTH is not a popular subject to discuss. He went on to say that only a very small percentage of people even care about the truth at all. Also it does bother me as a GOD-fearing human being that hardly no one gives a hoot about the horrible fate that many of these children have suffered. I can't even imagine what some of these caring parents of these missing kids are going through. GOD help us

Oh by the way>> please no more comments unless you at least watch one of his "Missing 411" videos.

Hi David! You are not very good at hiding behind a fake screen name.

Let me see if I understand your comment "Mr. Mooky">> you are saying that this post you pulled up was made by some guy named "David"?? I can assure you that I typed every word of it. It's been a while since this thread was running but I read the post over twice and it's my post I can assure you and my name is "Joe" by the way>> not David.
But welcome to the forum by the way and I welcome any comments you might have on this thread or any others :)

[RustyIron]

If only these unfortunate missing visitors to our national parks had been better prepared... only then could we know the truth.

With that said, what do you think would be the best Spyderco to fend off alien attackers? I contend that it would be the Manix 2 with a Maxamet blade, to best pierce the aliens' metallic exoskeleton.

But what about Bigfoot? You'd want a longer blade to reach through his thick fur. A Native Chief should do nicely. But what kind of steel? Does Bigfoot have thin skin like a mountain gorilla? Or does he have a thinker hide like a bear?

[The Mastiff]

Wow Joe ( David?) You spent 17 years and over 17,000 posts just to fool us?!? I'm appalled! :rolleyes: :p :D


heh.