Sharpening and Shapton Glass Stones

[ceast]

Just picked up my first Spyderco (Chap frn) in 20 years after someone snapped my old knife in half. I'll likely pick up another knife or two in the near future.

I'm fairly far down the rabbit hole chef's knives and as such have some Shapton Glass stones for keeping them in shape (1k and 4k, 500 to come). I also have a DMT coarse and a CKTG 140 diamond plate. How well do the Shapton's work on these steels? I'm mostly used high carbon such as blue and white 1 or 2, or AS.

Also, how are these knives factory finished? Is the edge bevel convex or flat? Anything I should know about free hand with short curved blades? My experience is with much longer, much flatter blades.

[Deadboxhero]

Just picked up my first Spyderco (Chap frn) in 20 years after someone snapped my old knife in half. I'll likely pick up another knife or two in the near future.

I'm fairly far down the rabbit hole chef's knives and as such have some Shapton Glass stones for keeping them in shape (1k and 4k, 500 to come). I also have a DMT coarse and a CKTG 140 diamond plate. How well do the Shapton's work on these steels? I'm mostly used high carbon such as blue and white 1 or 2, or AS.

Also, how are these knives factory finished? Is the edge bevel convex or flat? Anything I should know about free hand with short curved blades? My experience is with much longer, much flatter blades.

Once you go past 4% Vanadium in the steel there is a little less crispness to the edge but it's subtle most don't notice so it's not a huge deal. Once you have that same amount or more Vanadium and the steel is past 64 HRC it becomes Very noticable, feels like glass on the glass stone :D

Jumping over from Alumina to Silicon Carbide would work better or CBN and diamond but it's all about the bonding on the stones that will give you the best results with the SiC, CBN and Diamond.

The sintered and coated stuff wears away fast and leaves a scratchy finish.

Vitrified, Metallic, and Resin bonds are the way to go if you can find it and afford it.

[Wanimator]

I've never had problems with the glass stones when sharpening CTS-XHP, S30V, HAP-40 etc.

[Eli Chaps]

Welcome and great choice for a pocket knife!

I don't have Shapton's but I sharpen my Chaparral (XHP) on Arkansas stones without any issue. It's fairly responsive stuff. I don't do the Japanese kitchen steels but I have a fair variety of European steels and while XHP doesn't jump to attention quite as readily as those, it isn't difficult to work with either. At least that is my experience.

I'm a draw-type sharpener and not a back-and-forth sharpener like on water stones and I've always found smaller knives a little more challenging and require me to stay focused. I think it's just a control thing. The small blade doesn't give you as much hand control or surface-to-stone contact so it can wiggle a bit more I guess. Nothing terrible but it happens. Or I might be crazy. :D

Would love to hear how you make out, what you decide, etc.

[Shooter4321]

I’ve moved on to diamonds (CKTG) on the edge pro. I used Shapton glass on steels like s30v, 20cv, and all sorts of carbon steels, no problem, but on S90v, 320 Shapton glass was like rubbing glass on glass, left a much more polished edge , much more then say 400 diamond which leaves the edge like a chainsaw lol. That’s been my experience with a steel like S90v

[ceast]

Thanks for the welcome. It was a long decision making process on what to get. Tough choice between the Chap, Native LW, Delica and Manix LW. I'm sure I'll end up with at least one of those others.

Good to know about the s90v on the SG stones since a PM2 in 110 or similar sprint is on my radar for my next purchase. DMT plates are pretty cheap, I may pick up fine or extra fine in the future, but not until I have a steel that I struggle with on the SG stones.

I actually have an EP, but once I got the hang of free hand, I rarely use it as I find it slower and a bit more messy.

[Evil D]

I think I actually prefer my Congress Moldmasters over my Shaptons for most steels, but then I really don't go much beyond 1k grit anymore which is where the Shaptons really shine.

[JD Spydo]

Over at Bladeforums lately I've been having a lot of the really knowledgeable, long time members over there tell me that they are starting to like the newer generation of Japanese Waterstones better than many of these other new stones. Although I've personally heard nothing but good regarding any of Shapton's stones. I've not yet owned or used one but I've not yet heard anyone complain about any of Shapton's stones>> which I take that as a good indication that they are high quality tools.

However personally I'm starting to lean towards CBN, diamond and other stuff in that hardness range. I've also been hearing good things about Silicon Carbide. Now I will say that I've not yet had any blade steel I couldn't put a good finish on with any of my Spyderco ceramic stones. I believe I will always use them in spite of anything new that come along. But I always like to experiment with newer stuff too.

[awa54]

I free hand on kitchen blades, but much prefer my Hapstone (Edge Pro copy) for shorter blades in harder to grind steels... VG10 is the last steel that my old-school water stones do OK on.

The vast majority of current Spyderco knives come with flat levels at anywhere from 15 to 18dps. I did my CF Chap at 12.5dps, with no micro-bevel and the result is pretty awesome for a stainless folder... Mind you it's still no hand forged gyuto but it slices *very* nicely.

For a fairly affordable Edge Pro stone that won't dish badly and cuts fast I'd suggest the Gritomatic Venev "bonded diamond" stones, they can also be had in small double sided versions.
If you did a 240, 400, 1200 (FEPA-F) progression with them, that would cover a lot of ground and work well with all steel types.

[Deadboxhero]

Over at Bladeforums lately I've been having a lot of the really knowledgeable, long time members over there tell me that they are starting to like the newer generation of Japanese Waterstones better than many of these other new stones. Although I've personally heard nothing but good regarding any of Shapton's stones. I've not yet owned or used one but I've not yet heard anyone complain about any of Shapton's stones>> which I take that as a good indication that they are high quality tools.

However personally I'm starting to lean towards CBN, diamond and other stuff in that hardness range. I've also been hearing good things about Silicon Carbide. Now I will say that I've not yet had any blade steel I couldn't put a good finish on with any of my Spyderco ceramic stones. I believe I will always use them in spite of anything new that come along. But I always like to experiment with newer stuff too.

Yeah man, a new age of japanese water stone is coming using diamond and cbn ALL the way through with advanced, very hard Vitrified or resin or Metallic bonding.

The performance smokes all the regular stones but the cost is so high major US production companies haven't dared to touch it yet for bench stones

Originally I'd hoped spyderco was going to jump in the fray and also produce a CBN stone with a ceramic "Vitrified" bond however Sal voiced that the Ceramic is fired at 3000°f which would melt the Diamond/CBN.

However I'm not sure if he is aware that frit blends can be added to lower the firing tempeture of the stones to keep the abrasive grains safe. That's not a theory either. I'm holding a Vitrified Ceramic bonded CBN stone in my hand right now.

Of course it's just a cost issue for now even if spyderco made one it would be priced out of their market.

So it appears these stones will just be for the most performance obsessed for now.

[JD Spydo]

Hey "DeadBoxHero" I'm glad you confirmed that about those new-generation Japanese Waterstones :) I think I might just be saving some nickels for some of them rather than the Shapton and Naniwa stones I had on my "want list". There is just so much new high tech stuff out there that's been made available in the past 3 to 4 years especially that it makes it hard to focus on what would be the best for your home sharpening gear.

Hey DEADBOXHERO could you give us some name brands on those new Japanese Waterstones? I've heard for years that KING has always put out a decent product in the waterstone line. I also know that there is a Japanese company called GLOBAL that makes some decent ceramic stones but I've not use any of them yet either. They would have to be extremely good to beat Spyderco's ceramic stones IMO.

Yeah I'm beginning to think that if the abrasive is not as high as Silicon Carbide, CBN, Boron Carbide or diamond on the Moh's scale you are probably wasting your money at this stage of the game because of all the new supersteels we are being blessed with.

[Deadboxhero]

Naniwa has a line in the resin bonded diamond

King has one resin diamond stone not sold to the us market and would have to be imported.

Venev from Russia has some Resin diamond stones that are the most affordable but the finish isn't as consistant, but the price is good.

Poltava from ukranie will have a larger line of the very advanced and unique Metallic bonded stones (not coated, CBN and Diamond all the way through in a brass type bond)

Edge Pro has some Resin bonded stones that are made locally called the diamond matrix stones, very nice fit and finish on the stones and nice finishes.

The Gesshin 800 grit diamond waterstone from Japanese knife imports is the first vitrified ceramic diamond stone. Cost is higher then resin and is more difficult to manufacturer then the Metallic bond which is comparable in higher price.

The vitrified bond is what has the "feel" of a more traditional japanese king water stone but no dishing, faster cutting and cuts any steel.

[Deadboxhero]

Diamond Matrix Stones for edge pro


Poltava CBN metallic bonded stones by Gritomatic


Gritomatic CBN metallic bonded Benchstone by Poltava





JKI gesshin 800 grit Vitrified Bonded Diamond


Triple B CBN Resin Bonded



4v at 67hrc



Prototype Vitrified Bonded CBN



Naniwa diamond resin bond