At least for the first few days or a week...after that, take the limiter off and let people have at em if there are any left.ikaretababy wrote: ↑Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:35 pmi wish every retailer would have a 1 per household policy for sprints
St. Nick's Knives Exclusive Para 3
Re: St. Nick's Knives Exclusive Para 3
Days without buying a Spyderco: 35
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Re: St. Nick's Knives Exclusive Para 3
Thanks @Sharp Guy.
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Re: St. Nick's Knives Exclusive Para 3
I don't know much about 4V but from what I've read on this forum it's a great steel. Is it stainless? Is i comparable to any other "super steel" that is used for knife blades these days? Thanks in advance for any info.
CPM S90V
Maxamet
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M390
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Re: St. Nick's Knives Exclusive Para 3
It is not stainless.Brown_Recluse wrote: ↑Sat Sep 15, 2018 6:52 pmI don't know much about 4V but from what I've read on this forum it's a great steel. Is it stainless? Is i comparable to any other "super steel" that is used for knife blades these days? Thanks in advance for any info.
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Re: St. Nick's Knives Exclusive Para 3
It's in the category of M4, Cruwear, Rex45, it's claim to fame is it's a stronger and more wear resistant then 3V while still retaining some simliar toughness.Brown_Recluse wrote: ↑Sat Sep 15, 2018 6:52 pmI don't know much about 4V but from what I've read on this forum it's a great steel. Is it stainless? Is i comparable to any other "super steel" that is used for knife blades these days? Thanks in advance for any info.
It's the most reactive out of the these types of steels though. 4v is about as stainless as 52100.
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Re: St. Nick's Knives Exclusive Para 3
Thanks! That's what I needed to know.Deadboxhero wrote: ↑Sat Sep 15, 2018 7:07 pmIt's in the category of M4, Cruwear, Rex45, it's claim to fame is it's a stronger and more wear resistant then 3V while still retaining some simliar toughness.Brown_Recluse wrote: ↑Sat Sep 15, 2018 6:52 pmI don't know much about 4V but from what I've read on this forum it's a great steel. Is it stainless? Is i comparable to any other "super steel" that is used for knife blades these days? Thanks in advance for any info.
It's the most reactive out of the these types of steels though. 4v is about as stainless as 52100.
CPM S90V
Maxamet
CPM-M4
M390
CPM 20CV
Lc200N
CPM-S45VN
Maxamet
CPM-M4
M390
CPM 20CV
Lc200N
CPM-S45VN
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Re: St. Nick's Knives Exclusive Para 3
Deadboxhero wrote: ↑Sat Sep 15, 2018 7:07 pm
It's the most reactive out of the these types of steels though. 4v is about as stainless as 52100.
Really? I did not know that. I'm no metallurgist but I would have thought with the extra chromium, molybdenum, and vanadium, it would have been a lot better than that.
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Re: St. Nick's Knives Exclusive Para 3
I don't mean to stir up trouble, but CPM 4V is much more corrosion resistant than carbon steels in my experience. It's nowhere near any stainless steels and far behind CPM Cruwear, but it's also far ahead of simple carbon steels. 52100 has 1.3-1.6% chromium, so it's between 4V and simple carbon steels.Deadboxhero wrote: ↑Sat Sep 15, 2018 7:07 pmIt's the most reactive out of the these types of steels though. 4v is about as stainless as 52100.
I made several 4V knives for my groomsmen, and none of them have had any notable corrosion in several years. The one of that batch that I kept also has had very little signs of reactivity. Based on my experience, and that it has 5% chromium, 3% molybdenum, and 3.85% vanadium, I'd put its corrosion resistance solidly in the CPM M4 and K390 range. I would never expect 52100 to be that corrosion resistant at only 1.45% chromium. It does depend on heat treatment, though, so that may explain mine having better corrosion resistance than someone else's.
Shawn,
Have you had corrosion issues with your samples of CPM 4V?
Thanks
Have: old S30V Native, HAP40 Endura, ZDP DF2, S110V Manix LW, Cru-wear Para 3, SE H1 DF2, S90V Native 5, K390 Urban, SE Pac Salt, P.I.T.S., XHP Manix LW, SB Caly 3, B70P, PMA11, K03, Kapara, REX 45 Military, 154CM Manix LW, Swick, AEB-L Urban, KC Cruwear Manix, M390 PM2, Mantra 2, CruCarta Shaman, M390 Manix, K390 Police 4, S90V Manix LW, Rex 45 Manix LW, 20CV Manix, Rex 45 Lil’Native, Shaman, C208GP, Cruwear Manix, Cruwear Manix, M4 Chief, Z-max!!!
Want: SPY27, K490, Swick 5.
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Re: St. Nick's Knives Exclusive Para 3
It's noticably more reactive then M4, Cruwear, rex 45, and 3v.The Meat man wrote: ↑Sat Sep 15, 2018 7:20 pmDeadboxhero wrote: ↑Sat Sep 15, 2018 7:07 pm
It's the most reactive out of the these types of steels though. 4v is about as stainless as 52100.
Really? I did not know that. I'm no metallurgist but I would have thought with the extra chromium, molybdenum, and vanadium, it would have been a lot better than that.
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Re: St. Nick's Knives Exclusive Para 3
Academically, should be less reactive then 52100, realistically it seems to rust just as fast in my shop and in use as the 52100. And 4v rusts noticeably faster then the other tool steels.
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Re: St. Nick's Knives Exclusive Para 3
Deadboxhero wrote: ↑Sat Sep 15, 2018 7:37 pmAcademically, should be less reactive then 52100, realistically it seems to rust just as fast in my shop and in use as the 52100. And 4v rusts noticeably faster then the other tool steels.
That's interesting. Learn something new every day. :)
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Re: St. Nick's Knives Exclusive Para 3
That's quite fascinating, for me at least.Deadboxhero wrote: ↑Sat Sep 15, 2018 7:37 pmAcademically, should be less reactive then 52100, realistically it seems to rust just as fast in my shop and in use as the 52100. And 4v rusts noticeably faster then the other tool steels.
The ones I made were treated by Peter's Heat Treat. I believe it was an industry standard treatment (high temper) with the addition of cryo between quenching and tempering. The batch's hardness was all 61 HRC.
I may have to do some experimenting, comparing my 4V to some simple carbon steels and 52100 once I get my heat treat oven up and running.
Thanks for the food for thought.
Have: old S30V Native, HAP40 Endura, ZDP DF2, S110V Manix LW, Cru-wear Para 3, SE H1 DF2, S90V Native 5, K390 Urban, SE Pac Salt, P.I.T.S., XHP Manix LW, SB Caly 3, B70P, PMA11, K03, Kapara, REX 45 Military, 154CM Manix LW, Swick, AEB-L Urban, KC Cruwear Manix, M390 PM2, Mantra 2, CruCarta Shaman, M390 Manix, K390 Police 4, S90V Manix LW, Rex 45 Manix LW, 20CV Manix, Rex 45 Lil’Native, Shaman, C208GP, Cruwear Manix, Cruwear Manix, M4 Chief, Z-max!!!
Want: SPY27, K490, Swick 5.
Want: SPY27, K490, Swick 5.
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Re: St. Nick's Knives Exclusive Para 3
Ive thought about switching to Cruwear since 4v is so reactive compared to the other tool steels but the 4v is very edge stable even at 64 HRC.attila wrote: ↑Sat Sep 15, 2018 7:46 pmThat's quite fascinating, for me at least.Deadboxhero wrote: ↑Sat Sep 15, 2018 7:37 pmAcademically, should be less reactive then 52100, realistically it seems to rust just as fast in my shop and in use as the 52100. And 4v rusts noticeably faster then the other tool steels.
The ones I made were treated by Peter's Heat Treat. I believe it was an industry standard treatment (high temper) with the addition of cryo between quenching and tempering. The batch's hardness was all 61 HRC.
I may have to do some experimenting, comparing my 4V to some simple carbon steels and 52100 once I get my heat treat oven up and running.
Thanks for the food for thought.
To my surprise 4v can even reach 67hrc.
I've made a Gyuto out of 4v at 64 HRC and it was quite reactive when cutting onions. The Cruwear and hap40 didn't take a patina or react as much as the 4v which was almost instantly.
In my shop, I keep the 52100 and the 4v under a more watchful eye
But I have a solution to the reactivty I'll share soon
Re: St. Nick's Knives Exclusive Para 3
Big Chris (outstanding knife maker!) at one time posted on BF that 4V was more prone to rust than M4 or 3V. I don't remember him comparing it to 52100 or similar. My experience with 4V is limited (2 customs), but my 52100 spyderco mili is very prone to rusting but I have never had a rust problem with M4 from spyderco, BM, or others. No problems either with 3V or Cruwear from several makers.
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Re: St. Nick's Knives Exclusive Para 3
Slapped some 52100 at 60 hrc on a 36 grit belt to compare to 4v at 67hrc. I dipped them both in tap water and watched the fun.
Looks like I'm wrong, the 4v is not as reactive as 52100
In 5 min the 52100 start reacting.
The 4v had less reaction.
Still, I'd be more watchful with 4v then other tool steels.
It's alot more reactive then M4, 3V, Cruwear, PD-1 and Z-Wear, CPM D2 and Psf27
Looks like I'm wrong, the 4v is not as reactive as 52100
In 5 min the 52100 start reacting.
The 4v had less reaction.
Still, I'd be more watchful with 4v then other tool steels.
It's alot more reactive then M4, 3V, Cruwear, PD-1 and Z-Wear, CPM D2 and Psf27
Re: St. Nick's Knives Exclusive Para 3
This forum needs a like button!
Thanks for the test Deadboxhero!
Thanks for the test Deadboxhero!
Re: St. Nick's Knives Exclusive Para 3
Am I missing something? It has 5% chromium, which is more than M4/Rex45/Hap40 (which range from 4%-4.75% cr). It should theoretically be more resistant than those. D2 is just shy of stainless level, so that is obviously much higher resistance. Cruwear/3V/PD-1/Z-Wear come in around 7.5%-7.75% cr so they should be slightly more resistant.Deadboxhero wrote: ↑Sat Sep 15, 2018 9:02 pmSlapped some 52100 at 60 hrc on a 36 grit belt to compare to 4v at 67hrc. I dipped them both in tap water and watched the fun.
Looks like I'm wrong, the 4v is not as reactive as 52100
In 5 min the 52100 start reacting.
The 4v had less reaction.
Still, I'd be more watchful with 4v then other tool steels.
It's alot more reactive then M4, 3V, Cruwear, PD-1 and Z-Wear, CPM D2 and Psf27
Unless there is a chemical reaction to some other material in the steel that I am unaware of, this should be easily comparable to any of the common semi stainless steels except for D2 and PSF27. Basically in the middle, leaning towards the M4 family.
Re: St. Nick's Knives Exclusive Para 3
It depends on the amount of free chromium left in the steel. This depends on the heat treatment. But what also makes a difference is that M4/Rex45/HAP40 have more carbide forming metals in the mix. These steels have quite a bit of tungsten in them to form carbides so more chromium can be left free in the mix. The 4v steel has no tungsten in it at all.
And D2 steel is mostly forming chromium carbides so that is far from being close to stainless level since much of the chromium is being used up. Just looking at a steels chromium level in a composition chart is very deceiving.
And D2 steel is mostly forming chromium carbides so that is far from being close to stainless level since much of the chromium is being used up. Just looking at a steels chromium level in a composition chart is very deceiving.
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Re: St. Nick's Knives Exclusive Para 3
You missed Larrins articleMordhaus wrote: ↑Sat Sep 15, 2018 11:58 pmAm I missing something? It has 5% chromium, which is more than M4/Rex45/Hap40 (which range from 4%-4.75% cr). It should theoretically be more resistant than those. D2 is just shy of stainless level, so that is obviously much higher resistance. Cruwear/3V/PD-1/Z-Wear come in around 7.5%-7.75% cr so they should be slightly more resistant.Deadboxhero wrote: ↑Sat Sep 15, 2018 9:02 pmSlapped some 52100 at 60 hrc on a 36 grit belt to compare to 4v at 67hrc. I dipped them both in tap water and watched the fun.
Looks like I'm wrong, the 4v is not as reactive as 52100
In 5 min the 52100 start reacting.
The 4v had less reaction.
Still, I'd be more watchful with 4v then other tool steels.
It's alot more reactive then M4, 3V, Cruwear, PD-1 and Z-Wear, CPM D2 and Psf27
Unless there is a chemical reaction to some other material in the steel that I am unaware of, this should be easily comparable to any of the common semi stainless steels except for D2 and PSF27. Basically in the middle, leaning towards the M4 family.
https://knifesteelnerds.com/2018/06/11/ ... stainless/
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Re: St. Nick's Knives Exclusive Para 3
Mordhaus wrote: ↑Sat Sep 15, 2018 11:58 pmAm I missing something? It has 5% chromium, which is more than M4/Rex45/Hap40 (which range from 4%-4.75% cr). It should theoretically be more resistant than those. D2 is just shy of stainless level, so that is obviously much higher resistance. Cruwear/3V/PD-1/Z-Wear come in around 7.5%-7.75% cr so they should be slightly more resistant.Deadboxhero wrote: ↑Sat Sep 15, 2018 9:02 pmSlapped some 52100 at 60 hrc on a 36 grit belt to compare to 4v at 67hrc. I dipped them both in tap water and watched the fun.
Looks like I'm wrong, the 4v is not as reactive as 52100
In 5 min the 52100 start reacting.
The 4v had less reaction.
Still, I'd be more watchful with 4v then other tool steels.
It's alot more reactive then M4, 3V, Cruwear, PD-1 and Z-Wear, CPM D2 and Psf27
Unless there is a chemical reaction to some other material in the steel that I am unaware of, this should be easily comparable to any of the common semi stainless steels except for D2 and PSF27. Basically in the middle, leaning towards the M4 family.
Larrin shows in a list here from the article.
Basically Steels at the top of the list are more stainless/less reactive then steels at the bottom. However, he has them organized by there free Chromium in solution not tied up in carbides after heat treatment, so near the bottom middle there may be some caveats.
In the chart, he shows:
Austenizing temp, Chromium, molybdenum and PREN
The Austenizing temp is important because it is afactor in how much alloy is in solution.
Using the chromium percentage, Larrin shows how much Chromium is in solution to create an oxide film to passivate reactivity.
The Molybdenum is not just purely for Carbide formation and hardenbility. It also helps with pitting, he shows how much molybdenum is in solution.
The PREN stands for Pitting Resistance Equivalent Number. You'll notice that Vanadis 4 (4V is a copy) has more Cr in solution then M4 but less PREN due to the lower amount of Molybdenum in solution.
The article is really great and covers alot of details.
It's so awesome that we have a legit Metallurgist in the knife community sharing.
Subscribe to the website great great information there and more coming.
The next article is about Nitrogen steels and how Nitrogen works in the steel.
So exciting!