I don't like the way this forum discusses corrosion resistance

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Re: I don't like the way this forum discusses corrosion resistance

Postby AccountDeletedUserRequest » Thu Sep 06, 2018 1:09 pm

senorsquare wrote:
Thu Sep 06, 2018 10:13 am
Doc Dan wrote:
Thu Sep 06, 2018 9:25 am
It is true that some people naturally have more salty sweat. https://oem.bmj.com/content/oemed/14/3/191.full.pdf
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/84491

I find it interesting that the presence of copper inhibits corrosion to some degree.

This is me in solid black jersey after several hours on the bike. Yeah, my sweat is a wee bit salty...

Image
Hah, here's my gloves and shorts after a 150 mile day through south carolina in the middle of the summer. Rode down to Charleston, then up to Ashville, the blue ridge parkway, mt. mitchell etc.

Image

That photo is tame compared to the ones I could post from when I biked from Texas to North Carolina along the coast.

After I cool off from a bike ride or other athletic activity, I can run my hands along my upper arms, neck, forehead etc. and pick up visible salt crystals. Carrying knives clipped to my sweaty clothing is like putting a folder in a bag of salt water all day.

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Re: I don't like the way this forum discusses corrosion resistance

Postby The Mastiff » Thu Sep 06, 2018 1:17 pm

Doc Dan, thanks for the links to that. I kept a copy for future use.

Vivi, you have got to be at least partially referring to me after prior thread comments you made to me.

I have never discounted you having problems with rust. I just look at things differently. If you know it's a problem then solving the problem becomes the easy part. That is how I look at it. I too have very salty sweat but refuse to allow that to dictate what I carry or how I value the different steels. Perhaps it's my life experiences being different as well as my age.

The only issue I have is you give the impression at times that you demand your opinions are valid but you don't seem to give that same credence to others who see things differently. It may not be the case but it is the impression you sometimes give.

You are far from being a forum crybully but if could suggest one thing it would be to not care about others posts up to the point that the person is just trying to be rude. Then just give them back what they give you and then forget it.Don't forget that some here don't have great writing skills at their best and they may not actually be trying to be rude or dismissive.

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Re: I don't like the way this forum discusses corrosion resistance

Postby AccountDeletedUserRequest » Thu Sep 06, 2018 1:17 pm

Evil D wrote:
Thu Sep 06, 2018 4:55 am
I'm certain that I've said things like "all you need is some Vaseline" etc over the years when corrosion is discussed, but I never would have dreamed that anyone would take offense to that. There are ways to deal with this sort of thing and if you don't care for doing those things...

You can't stop the waves of the ocean, but you can learn to surf.
Evil D you're all good, I enjoy having you here and if we ever butted heads, it wasn't serious enough for me to care or remember.

I've tried tuff glide, vaseline, oil coatings etc., at the suggestion of many knowledgable folks like you and JD Spydo. I have no doubt they work for you, but in my case they were insufficient. Eventually the film would wear away from the knife rubbing against the liners in the pivot, the blade cutting cardboard, etc., and rust would appear.

I have only found one solution to my issue with a 100% success rate: H1 folders.



I'm not trying to stop the waves. I'm trying to stop people from littering on the beach :)

I could ignore this, but I'd rather be confrontational about it. I want to see peoples attitudes change. Telling someone they don't know how to do knife maintenance if their Ti/LC200N Spydiechef rusts, which is advertised as IMPERVIOUS TO THE ELEMENTS, does not help anyone. Just like me telling someone "learn to sharpen" if they complain their chinese 420j Spyderco knock-off doesn't hold an edge long does not contribute to anyones knowledge of anything.

This thread isn't intended to single anyone out. It's directed at the forum as a whole. I just want to see people be more respectful of those with different needs in the realm of rust resistance, the way we're all away to be respectful with other preferences.

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Re: I don't like the way this forum discusses corrosion resistance

Postby AccountDeletedUserRequest » Thu Sep 06, 2018 1:24 pm

The Mastiff wrote:
Thu Sep 06, 2018 1:17 pm
Vivi, you have got to be at least partially referring to me after prior thread comments you made to me.

The only issue I have is you give the impression at times that you demand your opinions are valid but you don't seem to give that same credence to others who see things differently. It may not be the case but it is the impression you sometimes give.
TLDR.

I kid I kid :D

I'm not trying to single you or anyone else out, I did not have a specific member in mind when I wrote the OP. I've enjoyed having you on the forum as well, I consider you very knowledgable. You post about steels I'm not likely to use, and I respect your opinion, so I know that when I read your account on a given steel, there's truth to it.

Id that is the impression I give, I will try to correct that. I think I certainly am guilty of coming off defensively at times, because I have very, very particular taste, and it tends to get questioned a lot on here and other knife forums. Sometimes in fairly rude, dismissive or confrontational ways.
Last edited by AccountDeletedUserRequest on Thu Sep 06, 2018 7:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: I don't like the way this forum discusses corrosion resistance

Postby AccountDeletedUserRequest » Thu Sep 06, 2018 5:59 pm

I finally found the power cable to my laptop. Here's some random photos from it's SSD:

Kershaw Skyline with rusted liners (and blade...):

Image

Byrd Flight with lots of liner corrosion. Any G10 folder with exposed steel liners ends up like this after a few weeks for me, like me Police 3.

Image

D2 Millie with a forced patina that constantly had a visible line of rust from where sweat met the exposed blade:

Image

Rusty Swick. Not even sure how, this one doesn't get exposed to sweat with how it's carried.

Image

CTS204P Millie with a stop pin that rusted the first week:

Image

Kershaw Vapor had rust spots on the handle 2 hours after I bought it:

Image

Can't seem to find the images from the last time I cleaned out the insides of my Police 3 and Spin. They looked much worse than that Byrd Flight.

On the flipside I have decade old salts without a spec of rust despite worlds less maintenance.

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Re: I don't like the way this forum discusses corrosion resistance

Postby Bloke » Thu Sep 06, 2018 6:08 pm

Vivi, I know you said you’ve tried plenty of stuff to fight corrosion and I agree oil, grease, etc. rubs off.

Specifically with regard to your liners corroding, have you tried Eezox?
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Re: I don't like the way this forum discusses corrosion resistance

Postby The Mastiff » Fri Sep 07, 2018 12:12 am

TLDR
:D
Sometimes in fairly rude, dismissive or confrontational ways.
No question we humans are imperfect at best. I usually don't try to be rude unless someone is being rude to me first but I'll never have the writing skills that some do and can send the wrong message at times just from lack of skills. Other times I'm just being an a$$ but that is usually only when someone is being disagreeable . :o On top of that I sometimes post here when I'm more than half asleep. That happens more often than it should and I don't even drink or do drugs. Such is life. :)

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Re: I don't like the way this forum discusses corrosion resistance

Postby Daveho » Fri Sep 07, 2018 3:25 am

the Common theme here is that the liners and fixtures are the issues mainly, the blades in comparison are quite clean.

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Re: I don't like the way this forum discusses corrosion resistance

Postby Doc Dan » Fri Sep 07, 2018 5:19 am

I used to work in a sporting goods store as a manager. My hands do not sweat (at all) so I could touch anything and there was never a problem. But, some people could come into the store and simply handle a stainless Ruger or Smith and Wesson and there would soon be rust everywhere they touched it. Weird.

I know there is a science behind it. I posted links. However, I found many more studies I did not link. Never tell a PhD there is no science to back something up because we will go looking. HaHaha!
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Re: I don't like the way this forum discusses corrosion resistance

Postby emanuel » Fri Sep 07, 2018 6:26 am

zhyla wrote:
Thu Sep 06, 2018 8:54 am

I've heard it referred to as a different in pH but I think that's unlikely as your blood pH is very tightly controlled. But you get rid of salt in sweat and urine and I could see if you have a higher salt intake your sweat might be saltier.
Your pockets are full of sweat in them, not blood. It's more complex than that, sweat is body waste, your body throws all the junk that it doesn't need in it. It's not regulated.

For example salt water has a pH of 8 if I remember correctly, which makes it basic. But water and salt dont corrode iron, its the oxygen diluted in it and the salty water just acts as a catalyst; also, the pH of a person's sweat can fluctuate between 7 (neutral) or 4 (highly acidic, the same level as lemon juice). So sweat is acidic even with salt in it. And on top of that, your pocket is like a sauna, where water vapor and anything soluble in air will mix with oxygen and create a way more corrosive environment than all the still salty water tests you find on youtube.

@Vivi, how does m390 and s110v handle your pockets?

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Re: I don't like the way this forum discusses corrosion resistance

Postby curlyhairedboy » Fri Sep 07, 2018 7:20 am

I'm definitely curious about the skin fauna which can play a huge role in how sweat's chemical profile changes.

We know, for instance, that it's not sugar which causes tooth decay directly, but the sugar feeds the oral bacteria which then produce tooth-harming substances.

I'm wondering if there's a particular strain of bacteria that create an especially corrosive environment as they're fed by sweat.

I'm a materials engineer, not a biologist, though, so I'll leave that question to the pros.
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Re: I don't like the way this forum discusses corrosion resistance

Postby Eli Chaps » Fri Sep 07, 2018 7:27 am

The average person's sweat runs ~4-5pH. It's acidic. That's what keeps mushrooms from just growing on our forearms. ;)

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Re: I don't like the way this forum discusses corrosion resistance

Postby The Meat man » Fri Sep 07, 2018 7:32 am

Eli Chaps wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 7:27 am
The average person's sweat runs ~4-5pH. It's acidic. That's what keeps mushrooms from just growing on our forearms. ;)
That's a gross word picture. Lol :D
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Re: I don't like the way this forum discusses corrosion resistance

Postby demoncase » Fri Sep 07, 2018 8:36 am

Ain't nice to have the choice though?.....

.....Though who'dve thunk that giving people a whole colour-wheel of steels in their pocket knife would lead to such consternation.

Some folks can keep carbon steel factory-fresh even after decades of ownership
Some other folks could make even a watermelon rust by merely looking at it.
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Re: I don't like the way this forum discusses corrosion resistance

Postby curlyhairedboy » Fri Sep 07, 2018 8:56 am

Eli Chaps wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 7:27 am
The average person's sweat runs ~4-5pH. It's acidic. That's what keeps mushrooms from just growing on our forearms. ;)
meh, mushrooms are just the reproductive bodies. The real fungus is among us....IN the skin. :D
EDC Rotation: PITS, Shaman, CF S90v Shaman, Ikuchi, Amalgam, CruCarta Shaman, Lil Native, Sage 5 LW, 4V Shaman, Watu, Rex 45 Shaman, Rex 45 Lil Native, S30v Endura, Swayback
Always in Pocket: Hawkbill Dragonfly 2 H1
Special and Sentimental: Southard, Smallfly G10, Squarehead LW, Ouroboros, Calendar Para 3 LW, 40th Anniversary Native
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Re: I don't like the way this forum discusses corrosion resistance

Postby SpyderEdgeForever » Fri Sep 07, 2018 9:13 pm

Vivi, I for one have to say this: You are one of my favorite people to chat with on here and I love to read your posts about knives and corrosion resistance.

I may be rare but I am one of those on here who values corrosion resistance as almost the main quality of a knife. I do not like rust. I also want a knife to be tough and hold an edge well, thus I could not be a fan of 304 stainless or 420 stainless. However, H1 and Lc200N are good ones as is VG10 and some others. I do wish Spyderco would make knives with VG1 and N680, as well as N690, which they have used.

Now, sweat it turns out, as some others have said, has protective qualities:

https://www.preventdisease.com/news/art ... hter.shtml



Main functions are :

1) Thermoregulation
Sweat cools the surface of the skin and reduces the body temperature.

2) Excretion
Sweat provides a route for excretion of water and electrolytes.

3) Protection
Sweat helps to maintain the acid mantle of the skin that creates a primary barrier for pathogenic micro organisms.

There are two types of sweat glands A) Eccrine glands
B) Apocrine glands

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Re: I don't like the way this forum discusses corrosion resistance

Postby AccountDeletedUserRequest » Sat Sep 08, 2018 12:30 am

I've got my first VG1 knife in the mail. Interested to see how it sharpens. VG10 has always been one of my favorite steels to sharpen.

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Re: I don't like the way this forum discusses corrosion resistance

Postby Donut » Sat Sep 08, 2018 6:08 am

I wonder if it has to do with what people eat.

I know I have diabetes and when my blood sugar is high, my body will do whatever it can to get rid of extra sugar.

Salt is bad for corrosion, sugar is bad for corrosion, acid is bad for corrosion and I think blood is the worst for corrosion.
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Re: I don't like the way this forum discusses corrosion resistance

Postby ThePeacent » Sat Sep 08, 2018 8:15 am

Vivi wrote:
Sat Sep 08, 2018 12:30 am
I've got my first VG1 knife in the mail. Interested to see how it sharpens. VG10 has always been one of my favorite steels to sharpen.
Hi Vivi
I believe the three Voyagers are VG1, which for some it was an upgrade from AUS8 (thus CS downgraded when the new TriAd lock voyagers came out) :confused:
In any case they are close relatives and I've found VG1 smilar to VG10 when sharpening, and as easy to touch up as AUS8.

I repaired the edge on my VG1 SE Tanto with my Sharpmaker and resharpened the Gunsite, both took a very crisp and sharp edge in no time :cool:

Never had any issue with corrosion either, I guess that being satin finished also helped :o compared to modern Cold Steels, some of which I've had pit and spot with rust (often it was the Bead Blasted Ti-Lite and Espada, I hate that coating :mad: )

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Re: I don't like the way this forum discusses corrosion resistance

Postby SpyderEdgeForever » Sat Sep 08, 2018 8:39 am

I will say this: I will tolerate carbon steel on certain knives if the carbon steel is very good quality, like that used on Japanese Higonokamis and Svord knives.


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