Your thoughts on guns.

[Milu]

The UK handgun ban with its simplistic, and imho idiotic, reasoning is the way all of Europe seems to be going and eventually the USA. Not to worry, the nanny state will look after us and protect us and stop us from playing with those dangerous bang sticks.

This study doesn't seem to get much attention. Summary here Jan 13:

http://volokh.com/archives/archive_2005_01_07.shtml

Perhaps because it doesn't show what the antis want?

[Hannibal Lecter]

Please always keep one thing in mind when discussing gun control and using LEOs to protect us. Law Enforcement is not here to protect me, you, or us; they exist to keep the peace and protect the common good. If they were charged with our safety, then they could be held liable for their failure to keep us safe, and sued justly. This is *not* their function, and they cannot keep us all safe try as they may. I have many good friends in law enforcement, and even they will tell you that if you want to be protected from harm or theft, you will have to take some responsibility for protecting yourself. Anyone who thinks that the police are here to protect them is only fooling themselves.

No disrespect to law enforcement intended or implied with this post. Again,. some of my best friends are LEOs. We have discussed issues like this and basically this is their opinion as well. They will do all they can, but they can't be everywhere all at once and all the time.

Just something else to stir things up a bit and make people think.


Ta,

H

[chucklehead]

Here here Hannibal!

acually its hear, hear (writtten in a nice & friendly way )

:D :D :D :D :D

[spyderknut]

acually its hear, hear (writtten in a nice & friendly way )

:D :D :D :D :D

OOPS. :o Thanks.

Ken, I intended no reference to you whatsoever.

[Jon_USA]

I love GUNS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Buy them almost as frequently as I get Spydercos each year around 2 to 3 a year. Last two guns I purchased are the Smith and Wesson 1911 .45 and the SW99 Compact in .40 cal

Everyone should own a gun its a right, says so right there on that Constitution of ours look it up its NUMBER 2

[OutofGum]

This reminds me of Bowling For Columbine. Regardless of your political stance, the movie is thought provoking, and I have tried to come up with an answer to the question: Why are there so many more killings by firearm in the US than in any other 1st world nation? In total and by population.

Hannibal: It is my understanding that its a pretty easy task to turn some semi auto assault rifles into full auto (ak-47s, open bolt designed guns) - that true?

[UK KEN]

"Ken, I intended no reference to you whatsoever."

spyderknut

No problem my friend! I think from previous posts you are aware of my views unfortunately not enough of my countrymen felt the same way to make a difference! It is hard for some people in Europe to appreciate the strength of feeling in the USA where firearms are concerned (both pro and anti) having no direct involvement with your culture.

Hang on to your present rights......in the UK we didn't......now it's too late!

Regards, Ken

[Simon G]

...................... Had we had a second amendment I think that we would not be as strictly regulated in the UK as we are today! It would be wonderful if we all had the rights afforded to you by your constitution but as we have not we have (generally) become complacent and tend to sit back when new laws are introduced and give in without too much of a fight!.............................



Regards, Ken

Ah! but Ken, we have. It is written in the 1689 Declaration and Bill of Rights. It still exists in constitutional law and was written nearly 100 years before the 2nd Ammendment!

Prior to 1953, the carring of pistols for self defence and the general use of firearms in the UK, was common place and accepted by all. Since then, the judiciary, and in particular socialist politicians have all but erroded it through neglect, case law, ignorance and political correctness.

44 years, from 1953 until the 1997 Firearms Act was all it took to destroy a God given right, that had first been ratified in 1215 with the Magna Carta.

Me? Oh yes I still have firearms allowed through current legistaion.............more than I will admit to the wife, but not as many as I want!!!!

Regards,

Simon.

[UK KEN]

Simon

Very true, but I thought that the law only applied to Protestants for protection and then only if allowed by the law of the day?

Ken

[Hannibal Lecter]

Why are there so many more killings by firearm in the US than in any other 1st world nation? In total and by population.

Short answer: selfishness. Allow me to elaborate.

Some parents don't bother to teach children anything anymore, nor to keep track of their activities.

Illustrations:
1). When I was younger, I never *dreamt* of *touching* my Dad's guns without his permission. I knew that death would be preferable than to face his wrath for such a transgression. The gun cabinet was never locked]Hannibal: It is my understanding that its a pretty easy task to turn some semi auto assault rifles into full auto (ak-47s, open bolt designed guns) - that true?[/QUOTE]

Not quite. It, in theory, can be done, if you have the proper parts, a lot of time, access to metal machining equipment, and don't mind destroying your firearm in the process. Most semi-automatic weapons are simply not designed for full-auto use; they just will not stand up to it. Relationship of parts is critical to ensure your converted firearm doesn't slam-fire or otherwise get uncontrollable. Plus, should you get caught doing something that *stupid*, the penalties are unreal; you will be in a jail for a *long* time. In short, to do it is expensive, illegal, and likely to fail in most cases. I have seen the "conversions kits" to do what you describe, and you would just not believe how complex the process is. The average guy would screw it up irrepairably in the first ten minutes.

There are toys like the "****-Fire" and the like that use cams and cranks, etc, to bump up the cyclic rate, but to be honest, generally you can't hit squat when using such toys.

FWIW, I have been trained as a long-range precision shooter. I have been able to pull off 1/4 MOA (1/4" center-to-center five-shot groups at 100 meters) with an off-the-shelf rifle, phenomenal optics and factory ammo. If I need to shoot you and you are 500M away, a fully-automatic weapon is just dumb luck if I fire 1000 rounds at you and actually hit you once - maximum effective range is generally about 200M for such rifles, max. If I use a precision, single shot bolt-action rifle, all I will require is one shot; group size at 500M for a 1/4 MOA rifle will be about 1.25 inches center-to-center, which will **** near let me put the round into your eye socket at that range. It is not the caliber of the gun, it is the caliber of the man behind it.

I have owned the semi-auto "assault rifles" everyone worries about and discovered something fundamental about them; generally speaking, they suck. Remember that most "military" rifles were made by the lowest bidder. They are also generally wildly inaccurate, especially with surplus ammo.

Don't worry about the guys with the converted semi-autos; they will eventually be stupid enough to test-fire them, and the law will descend upon them in short order. Either that or their own stupidity will cull them out of the gene pool in a firearms-related accident.

Don't buy into the B.S. and rhetoric the media tries to feed you about this subject. After ten years working in the business, I have owned or fired about every kind of firearm you can imagine, and have just about seen it all. I am a very opinionated b*stard concerning firearms, as might be imagined, but I feel that I have the experience to back it up. If you have any questions I can help with or you require more clarification, feel free to contact me offline via e-mail lest our discussion get on someone's nerves on what is in truth and essence a knife forum.

I'll shut up now. :D


Ta,

H

[UK KEN]

H L

Well put Sir! Not wishing to deviate too much from this thread.......but.....could you let me know a little about the rules regarding visitors to your country? Particularly relating to using borrowed weapons!

Ken :D

[Hannibal Lecter]

[quote="UK KEN"]H L

Well put Sir! Not wishing to deviate too much from this thread.......but.....could you let me know a little about the rules regarding visitors to your country? Particularly relating to using borrowed weapons! ]

To be honest, I really don't know. You can't legally get a carry permit, as those are limited to residents. I don't know that you can carry openly, and I don't know what laws are pertaining to hunting regulations, though I assume if they will sell you a hunting license, you can legally hunt with a borrowed firearm. I imagine you should be fine at any prescribed shooting range with borrowed firearms, especially if you are with a US citizen. Borrowing firearms for legal pursuits should not be a big deal as long as you only pursue legal activities.


Ta,

H

[mystillwater]

i'm an american gun owner. i believe in the right i have to keep and bear arms. i like shooting and would certainly protect my family if forced to.

BUT

i would gladly give up my guns if my doing so could prevent violent crime. life is the most important thing we've got.

[spyderknut]

[quote="UK KEN"]H L

Well put Sir! Not wishing to deviate too much from this thread.......but.....could you let me know a little about the rules regarding visitors to your country? Particularly relating to using borrowed weapons! ]
I think it depends on the state. Then if you want to travel between states it gets even trickier for you. Do you have travel plans,Ken? I'm sure your friend you plan to borrow from could inform you of his state laws regarding alien carry :eek: :D .

[spyderknut]

i'm an american gun owner. i believe in the right i have to keep and bear arms. i like shooting and would certainly protect my family if forced to.

BUT

i would gladly give up my guns if my doing so could prevent violent crime. life is the most important thing we've got.

Show me a country whose citizens have to right to bear arms that has no violent crime. This country bears a burden of innocent lives lost in accidents and crimes of passion. It is my responibility to prevent such tragedy from occurring to my own flesh and blood..

[CutEngineer]

For the past eight years, I have held a concealed handgun license in my state. I don't always carry, but I am armed a significant portion of the time.

In all that time, I have driven past countless convenience stores, and I have never, not even once, had the slightest urge to stop by and rob them at gunpoint.

Likewise, I had a slight fender bender a couple of years ago. It was my fault and I was armed. There was no gun fight. No threat was made of any violence. In fact, as far as unpleasant situations go, it was very civil.

From those choices? The third one.

[quote="UK KEN"]H L

Well put Sir! Not wishing to deviate too much from this thread.......but.....could you let me know a little about the rules regarding visitors to your country? Particularly relating to using borrowed weapons! ]

It depends on what state you're in and where you want to borrow a weapon and what you want to do with it. Many shooting ranges in Texas will loan or rent you a handgun if you just want to shoot.

[Simon G]

[quote="UK KEN"]Simon

Very true, but I thought that the law only applied to Protestants for protection and then only if allowed by the law of the day? ]

Papists (Catholics), were already armed and Protestants had been disarmed. This was to bring one section of society on a level footing as opposed to disadvantaging all of society.

"As allowed by law", is a reaffirmation that the right to armed defence was intrinsic to English Common Law, which in itself had been laid down since the end of Roman occupation in the 5th century AD in the Magna Carta, Arbroath Agreement, Winchester Agreement etc. The Bill of Rights also stated, any repeal/surrendering of the rights stated is illegal!!

Ken, I have rented handguns on US ranges/clubs many times. No problems there. In fact, I have always been welcomed and never had a bad experience, Granted these were in "gun friendly" states, Florida, Vermont and New Hampshire. Taking your own guns, especially rifles and shotguns, is also fairly simple. Your own licence acts as import/export docs from the UK and your outfitter/friends can sort appropriate hunting permits before you leave. You will get most difficulty from your airline. They seem to cahnge policy on a daily basis regardless of individual country/international carriage laws.

I believe the carrying of firearms for defence by non-residents is illegal in all states. However, as individual states own laws vary considerably, always check all aspects prior to travel. State government have always been helpfull.

No handgun to carry?.......................which Spydie?!!!!

regards,

Simon.

[UK KEN]

Hello All

Thanks for the info, as usual a wealth of information :)

Ken

[hannes w]

in a perfect world...

full autos for leo & military only

rifles & shotguns for law abiding citizens + registration of ownership

small arms for law abiding citizens + registration of ownership
+ extra carry permit if you want to toot it around

+ clear rules for storage of arms and ammo to prevent accidents
+ regular checks to keep your status as responsible gun-owner

IMHO

Hannes W

[OutofGum]

Thanks for the clarification Hannibal. Very educational.

When I was considering the dangers of full autos I wasn't thinking of one small moving target at 500M, I was thinking of many large moving targets at ~50M or less. I remember a few years ago there were some bank robbers (or madmen) who went on a rampage in town. They wore full body armor (and I'm not talking just kevlar) and had fully automatic ak-47s. They fired over 1000 rounds in a few minutes, injured and may have killed some people, and I think there was a documentary made about it. Anyone know what I'm talking about?