CPM MPL-1 sprint run please

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Stuman
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CPM MPL-1 sprint run please

Postby Stuman » Fri Jun 15, 2018 2:21 pm

I was just looking at crucible steels and I came across the CPM MPL-1 Which looked very very interesting. It has one of the highest carbon contents of any steel and a whaking load of chromium which is up to 24.00% to 24.20% and is obviously to keep the 3.80% carbon in check. It reminds me of ZDP-189 but has a different elemental makeup and I think it would make a fantastic sprintrun contender. What do you guys think ? I’m pritty sure this will give ZDP a run for its money.

CPM MPL-1
C: 3.75-3.80; W: 0.40; V: 9.00-9.10;
Cr: 24.00-24.20; Mo: 3.00; Mn: 0.45-0.50;
P: 0.015; S: 0.015; Si: 0.50

ZDP-189
C: 3.00; W: 0.60; V: 0.10;
Cr: 20.00; Mo: 1.40; Co: ?;
Mn: 0.50; Nb: ?; P: ?;
S: ?; Si: 0.40;
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Re: CPM MPL-1 sprint run please

Postby Deadboxhero » Fri Jun 15, 2018 2:34 pm

Stuman wrote:
Fri Jun 15, 2018 2:21 pm
I was just looking at crucible steels and I came across the CPM MPL-1 Which looked very very interesting. It has one of the highest carbon contents of any steel and a whaking load of chromium which is up to 24.00% to 24.20% and is obviously to keep the 3.80% carbon in check. It reminds me of ZDP-189 but has a different elemental makeup and I think it would make a fantastic sprintrun contender. What do you guys think ? I’m pritty sure this will give ZDP a run for its money.

CPM MPL-1
C: 3.75-3.80; W: 0.40; V: 9.00-9.10;
Cr: 24.00-24.20; Mo: 3.00; Mn: 0.45-0.50;
P: 0.015; S: 0.015; Si: 0.50

ZDP-189
C: 3.00; W: 0.60; V: 0.10;
Cr: 20.00; Mo: 1.40; Co: ?;
Mn: 0.50; Nb: ?; P: ?;
S: ?; Si: 0.40;
Information in link from 2003.

Sounds brittle


http://www.knifenetwork.com/forum/showt ... hp?t=13071
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Re: CPM MPL-1 sprint run please

Postby Stuman » Fri Jun 15, 2018 2:52 pm

Deadboxhero wrote:
Fri Jun 15, 2018 2:34 pm
Stuman wrote:
Fri Jun 15, 2018 2:21 pm
I was just looking at crucible steels and I came across the CPM MPL-1 Which looked very very interesting. It has one of the highest carbon contents of any steel and a whaking load of chromium which is up to 24.00% to 24.20% and is obviously to keep the 3.80% carbon in check. It reminds me of ZDP-189 but has a different elemental makeup and I think it would make a fantastic sprintrun contender. What do you guys think ? I’m pritty sure this will give ZDP a run for its money.

CPM MPL-1
C: 3.75-3.80; W: 0.40; V: 9.00-9.10;
Cr: 24.00-24.20; Mo: 3.00; Mn: 0.45-0.50;
P: 0.015; S: 0.015; Si: 0.50

ZDP-189
C: 3.00; W: 0.60; V: 0.10;
Cr: 20.00; Mo: 1.40; Co: ?;
Mn: 0.50; Nb: ?; P: ?;
S: ?; Si: 0.40;
Information in link from 2003.

Sounds brittle


http://www.knifenetwork.com/forum/showt ... hp?t=13071
I don’t think it would be anymore brittle than that of ZDP 189 or Maxamet and I suppose it all depends on what heat treat you do to it. What ever happens I reckon it would be impressive.
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Re: CPM MPL-1 sprint run please

Postby tvenuto » Fri Jun 15, 2018 3:16 pm

I love translations. “Before supracor breaks, all bells in the head should ring.

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Re: CPM MPL-1 sprint run please

Postby sal » Fri Jun 15, 2018 3:31 pm

Do you know what Crucible made it for?

sal

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Re: CPM MPL-1 sprint run please

Postby Deadboxhero » Fri Jun 15, 2018 3:55 pm

The have it available for powder form

Used in Cladding to low alloy steel "Cru-Clad"
Mpl-1 on the outside to prevent wear with a core steel of a more ductile substrate, low alloy, non knife grade, industrial steel.
Boring non knife stuff

They also mentioned difficulty making Mpl-1 into bar stock. Which is understandable if they have problems with rolling s110v, I'd imagine the problems are magnified with this grade.

http://www.nsm-ny.com/index.cfm?fuseact ... page_id=32
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Re: CPM MPL-1 sprint run please

Postby supracor » Fri Jun 15, 2018 11:53 pm

it's been a long time since "someone" is fighting for it :)

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Re: CPM MPL-1 sprint run please

Postby supracor » Sat Jun 16, 2018 12:33 am

http://www.knifenetwork.com/forum/showt ... hp?t=13071

This is a good read from Dieter Whilelmy, a german knifemaker that use it
I am not so sure but i think that also Farid have used it

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Re: CPM MPL-1 sprint run please

Postby supracor » Sat Jun 16, 2018 12:37 am

Oooooops :)
maybe I should read all the messages first before posting links

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Re: CPM MPL-1 sprint run please

Postby Stuman » Sat Jun 16, 2018 10:20 am

Deadboxhero wrote:
Fri Jun 15, 2018 3:55 pm
The have it available for powder form

Used in Cladding to low alloy steel "Cru-Clad"
Mpl-1 on the outside to prevent wear with a core steel of a more ductile substrate, low alloy, non knife grade, industrial steel.
Boring non knife stuff

They also mentioned difficulty making Mpl-1 into bar stock. Which is understandable if they have problems with rolling s110v, I'd imagine the problems are magnified with this grade.

http://www.nsm-ny.com/index.cfm?fuseact ... page_id=32
I’m pritty sure they could roll it into bar stock relatively easy. After all they done this with Maxamet which is designed to be the rollers that roll the metal and yes I know it’s from Carpenter and this is from crucible but I could also state CPM REX121. This is a knife grade semi stainless steel and for all intensive purposes has very similar elemental make up as some other PM steels. I’m going to try and get some if I can find it as it has been rolled in flat and bar stock. How ever working with this demanding metal is going to be gruelling (if I can source some)
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Re: CPM MPL-1 sprint run please

Postby Stuman » Sat Jun 16, 2018 10:24 am

Stuman wrote:
Sat Jun 16, 2018 10:20 am
Deadboxhero wrote:
Fri Jun 15, 2018 3:55 pm
The have it available for powder form

Used in Cladding to low alloy steel "Cru-Clad"
Mpl-1 on the outside to prevent wear with a core steel of a more ductile substrate, low alloy, non knife grade, industrial steel.
Boring non knife stuff

They also mentioned difficulty making Mpl-1 into bar stock. Which is understandable if they have problems with rolling s110v, I'd imagine the problems are magnified with this grade.

http://www.nsm-ny.com/index.cfm?fuseact ... page_id=32
I’m pritty sure they could roll it into bar stock relatively easy infact they have, After all they done this with Maxamet which is designed to be the rollers that roll the metal and yes I know it’s from Carpenter and this is from crucible but I could also state CPM REX121. This is a knife grade semi stainless steel and for all intensive purposes has very similar elemental make up as some other PM steels. I’m going to try and get some if I can find it as it has been rolled in flat and bar stock. How ever working with this demanding metal is going to be gruelling (if I can source some) also I don’t think this is boring stuff and I find it intriguing that a steel very similar to ZDP-189 but with more elements such as carbon & chromium and molybdenum could be boring. This metal has a lot of potential in the right hands.
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Re: CPM MPL-1 sprint run please

Postby Deadboxhero » Sat Jun 16, 2018 11:01 am

Stuman wrote:
Sat Jun 16, 2018 10:20 am
Deadboxhero wrote:
Fri Jun 15, 2018 3:55 pm
The have it available for powder form

Used in Cladding to low alloy steel "Cru-Clad"
Mpl-1 on the outside to prevent wear with a core steel of a more ductile substrate, low alloy, non knife grade, industrial steel.
Boring non knife stuff

They also mentioned difficulty making Mpl-1 into bar stock. Which is understandable if they have problems with rolling s110v, I'd imagine the problems are magnified with this grade.

http://www.nsm-ny.com/index.cfm?fuseact ... page_id=32
I’m pritty sure they could roll it into bar stock relatively easy. After all they done this with Maxamet which is designed to be the rollers that roll the metal and yes I know it’s from Carpenter and this is from crucible but I could also state CPM REX121. This is a knife grade semi stainless steel and for all intensive purposes has very similar elemental make up as some other PM steels. I’m going to try and get some if I can find it as it has been rolled in flat and bar stock. How ever working with this demanding metal is going to be gruelling (if I can source some)
It appears to be the high chromium and carbon that makes it difficult.

Rex121 and Maxamet have lower chromium

I can speculate reasons but honestly the details are beyond me, I don't work at a rolling mill and would need to be "in practice" to fully understand why MPL-1 is more difficult to roll then rex121

You can call Niagara, see if they have any

Good luck
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Re: CPM MPL-1 sprint run please

Postby Pelagic » Sun Jun 17, 2018 4:25 am

I'm assuming vanadium would be the primary carbide former, in which case this steel could be rust proof. But that is a lot of carbon, so I'm sure a decent amount of the chromium would form carbides as well. It looks as if it would have excellent edge retention on softer materials but should stay away from any rough use.
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Re: CPM MPL-1 sprint run please

Postby guywithopinion » Sun Jun 17, 2018 6:51 am

Taking the low end of each %, that is only 58.9% iron! Just thought that was interesting.

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Re: CPM MPL-1 sprint run please

Postby Stuman » Sun Jun 17, 2018 1:58 pm

guywithopinion wrote:
Sun Jun 17, 2018 6:51 am
Taking the low end of each %, that is only 58.9% iron! Just thought that was interesting.
it is a very interesting and intriguing highly alloyed metal and it has a lot of potential. That carbon and chromium as well as the other alloys could easily get this steel up to the mid 60s on the Rockwell and probobly more. It’s very similar to ZDP-189 and we all know what Rockstead knives can do with that, taking the carbon into consideration Rosseli knives heat treats his proprietary UHC steel up into the mid 60s and I own one and have found that that steel is superb interms of edge retention and its because of the huge amounts of carbon he uses. Never the less this is a semi stainless steel like ZDP-189 and it looks as if this has a lot of potential but first I have to locate some so I’m going to start calling about.
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Re: CPM MPL-1 sprint run please

Postby guywithopinion » Sun Jun 17, 2018 5:56 pm

Stuman wrote:
Sun Jun 17, 2018 1:58 pm
It’s very similar to ZDP-189
That's actually what seemed interesting too. Based on the numbers you gave, ZDP-189 is still almost 75% iron. And people talk about how ZDP isn't technically a steel. That thing is close to iron not even being the main ingredient!

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Re: CPM MPL-1 sprint run please

Postby Stuman » Mon Jun 18, 2018 7:59 am

guywithopinion wrote:
Sun Jun 17, 2018 5:56 pm
Stuman wrote:
Sun Jun 17, 2018 1:58 pm
It’s very similar to ZDP-189
That's actually what seemed interesting too. Based on the numbers you gave, ZDP-189 is still almost 75% iron. And people talk about how ZDP isn't technically a steel. That thing is close to iron not even being the main ingredient!
Yeah it’s something that requires investigation but I have very limited tools and equipment not like Spyderco who will have a huge myriad of testing equipment. I do have a Rockwell C scale machine and knife making equipment but nothing like what Spyderco could test this steel with. There are a few steels I want to get around to making and testing with different heat treats and this one just went past those and made it top of my list. I’d love it if Spyderco actually done some testing on this steel because from what I can see it has the potential to be a fantastic knife steel.
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Re: CPM MPL-1 sprint run please

Postby sal » Mon Jun 18, 2018 8:02 am

Getting a sample is sometimes difficult if there is no inventory. We'll inquire.

sal

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Re: CPM MPL-1 sprint run please

Postby Stuman » Mon Jun 18, 2018 8:39 am

sal wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 8:02 am
Getting a sample is sometimes difficult if there is no inventory. We'll inquire.

sal
thanx Sal you just made me a happy man !
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Re: CPM MPL-1 sprint run please

Postby Deadboxhero » Mon Jun 18, 2018 9:55 am

Stuman wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 7:59 am
guywithopinion wrote:
Sun Jun 17, 2018 5:56 pm
Stuman wrote:
Sun Jun 17, 2018 1:58 pm
It’s very similar to ZDP-189
That's actually what seemed interesting too. Based on the numbers you gave, ZDP-189 is still almost 75% iron. And people talk about how ZDP isn't technically a steel. That thing is close to iron not even being the main ingredient!
Yeah it’s something that requires investigation but I have very limited tools and equipment not like Spyderco who will have a huge myriad of testing equipment. I do have a Rockwell C scale machine and knife making equipment but nothing like what Spyderco could test this steel with. There are a few steels I want to get around to making and testing with different heat treats and this one just went past those and made it top of my list. I’d love it if Spyderco actually done some testing on this steel because from what I can see it has the potential to be a fantastic knife steel.
Well, they don't have any in barstock and aren't making any either, it's only available in powder form for clading.

They had rolled it in the past but it was ALL cracking very badly so they haven't revisited it.

By the way, they still get some cracking issues with s110v.

But no where near as bad as s125v which is why it kinda went away but at least there is barstock in s125v leftover.



Sounds like MPL-1 is by far the most difficult for them to process
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