Blade Steels..... Does It Really Matter?

[Diamondback]

It all depends on use. Cutting marine grade rope, that 8cr13mov will get about 1/3 of the way through 4" rope and be completely blunted/stop cutting completely.

But my byrd rescue 2 on the other hand (serrated)....

...agreed; blade grind and blade geometry. :)

[archangel]

I'll take any of the steels Spyderco used prior to their introduction of ZDP-189 into the lineup, over it or anything that's been added since.

What's wrong with ZDP-189?

I know there's an entire thread on this subject, so just in a nutshell...

[Deadboxhero]

I'll take any of the steels Spyderco used prior to their introduction of ZDP-189 into the lineup, over it or anything that's been added since.

What's wrong with ZDP-189?

I know there's an entire thread on this subject, so just in a nutshell...

Some think it's too difficult to sharpen and too brittle.

Others think it takes a killer polished edge off waterstones and doesn't chip with normal ise.

Go figure.

I'm in the latter, the stuff is great.

YMMV

[The Deacon]

I'll take any of the steels Spyderco used prior to their introduction of ZDP-189 into the lineup, over it or anything that's been added since.

What's wrong with ZDP-189?

I know there's an entire thread on this subject, so just in a nutshell...

Compared to the steels Spyderco used before it, ZDP-189 has considerably lower rust resistance. Compared specifically to VG-10, ZDP-189 is more time consuming to sharpen. It may hold an edge about twice as long as VG-10, it also takes about twice as long to sharpen. Compared with any steel Spyderco used before it, ZDP-189 is more expensive. IMHO, you're paying more for a steel that's less rust resistant and takes longer to sharpen. Can't see why anyone would find those characteristics appealing.

[archangel]

Thanks Paul.

[Bloke]

It doesn’t matter at all when you work in an office and cut the odd thing now and then. Personally I can get by with the scissors in my desk's draw and a house key. :)

That changes but when you have a brace of fish to fillet or a deer to dress and need to break it down. Particularly if like me you’re fairly hopeless with a knife, cut through fish bones and hit bones processing game. :eek:

Sure you can use your trusty Dexter Russell and F Dick steel or carry several knives but it’s not the same as using a high carbide steel blade that’s neither sharp nor blunt but its settled at that ‘working edge’ that just plain cuts and bucks bone.

[TomAiello]

I love ZDP. I don't care about the patina, and I only use ZDP in small, precise blades, but I find it great for them. Dragonfly 2 in ZDP is a fantastic small precision knife.

[blockade]

I think it matters, but it's all relative to what you personally can live with. Even as a Boy Scout, I knew that my Schrade Old Timer pocket knife couldn't stay sharp long enough to sharpen 4 or 5 hickory sticks into marshmallow roasters, but others loved those little knives. Back then, my Dad and most woodsmen I knew carried a pocket stone because they knew that over a weekend of use, their knives would go dull. My Herter's knives stayed sharp marginally longer the Schrades. I thought Case pocket knives stayed sharper longer than either of them, and that American made Tree Brands stayed sharp longer still. And then I bought a Gerber FS1 in the 70s and was shocked at how much longer it held an edge than any of my previous knives. It doesn't compare to my EDC Spydercos today, yet I will occasionally still carry the FS1, just because I like it.

Today, nearly all the steels you buy are better than what I used to buy, but what you can live with as far as toughness, edge-holding, brittleness, etc., is still a relative question, tied to your own tastes. If I were going on a 30 day through hike, I'd want a real hard steel that needed very little touch-up over that month. But for my everyday use I like S30V, because it's "sharpenable," but still holds an edge long enough for me. Short version, yes, it matters, if you pay close attention to what you like about your steel's characteristics. If you don't, it doesn't.

[SpyderEdgeForever]

I wouldn’t go diving with carbon steel.

I know you agree with me that you would love to see Spyderco make a new or a sprint run of the Caspian Salt, perhaps with Lc200N stainless steel.

Can you as an experienced and seasoned diver imagine going diving with say a Pacific Salt shaped folder made with ZDP 189?

Infact, Lance and Freediver: How long would you both estimate a blade (fixed or folding) of ZDP 189 steel would last doing the water based activities you are both familiar with? Would it develop a rust patina almost instantly and then over days or weeks corrode away to powder?

[SpyderEdgeForever]

I'll take any of the steels Spyderco used prior to their introduction of ZDP-189 into the lineup, over it or anything that's been added since.

Me too, I agree.

This may sound in the extreme, but, there is another layer to this discussion: Some steel types could possibly lead to someone's demise! Think about this: What if you are a Coast Guard rescue person and you went on the Spyderco forum and read a really Pro ZDP 189 thread, and decided "Ah this stuff is super sharp, its better than H1 or VG10, I'll take my Spyderco ZDP 189 folder with me instead of my Salt H1 Autonomy." And so the Coast Guard person is out there and has to rescue someone who is entangled in a mass of super strong monofilament fishing line material....and snaps open the ZDP 189 Endura...and before long as he or she is in the process of cutting the person free, all that nasty salt water corrodes the blade edge and the knife breaks down and the person they were rescuing drowns?

I know that may seem like an extreme case, but it could happen.

My two favorite steel types Spyderco uses: VG10 and H1. I am seeking to try out Carpenter BD1.

[Eli Chaps]

To me, the answer is either a very strong yes or a nah not really.

By that I mean, there are those out there who are really working with their knives and for them certain steel properties are highly valued. Although these discussions almost always seem to default to the idea that edge retention steels are "superior" I think that is pretty short sighted. For some, rust resistance will be a much higher priority. Some butchers may prefer a softer steel that is quick and easy to hone. Toughness may be more valuable to others. And so on and so on.

But beyond those folks or those task specific knives, I think the answer is mostly nah, not really. Maybe a person needs more corrosion resistance or whatever but by and large I think the rest is mostly just stuff enthusiasts care about. The internet would have you believe that you must own the highest edge retention super steel on the planet but it isn't true. You can get by just fine with softer steels. Now, each of us might have personal druthers and that is great but that doesn't mean the other steels are poor choices.

I did a 30 day "inferior" steel challenge thread here a while back and Lance was pleasantly surprised by the performance of I think it was BD1 but I might be remembering the exact steel wrong.

I agree with those who say they value geometry and such over the actual steel. But I also enjoy learning about new-to-me steels too.

As Sal said, steels aren't better than one another, just different.

[Surfingringo]

It was the 8cr13 in a Byrd Meadowlark that I was pleasantly surprised by. I have carried that knife since the challenge ended and I remain impressed. I would have no issues using Spyderco’s 8cr13mov as my EDC steel.

[Daveho]

S35vn

Problem solved.


Not really but, surely good corrosion resistance and good edge retention is possible, to me S30v fits the bill but I don’t live at the sea side nor do I store my knives in a saltwater aquarium under the protection of sea life.

[BigCanadian]

I'm disappointed that my VG-10 Delica4 FFG does not hold an edge any longer than my "vintage" USA made Gerber FFG folders. I believe they are 420HC, but I'm not sure. I just bought a Manix 2 Mid Backlock, so I'm hoping that the S30V is as good as I've heard it is.

[Daveho]

I'm disappointed that my VG-10 Delica4 FFG does not hold an edge any longer than my "vintage" USA made Gerber FFG folders. I believe they are 420HC, but I'm not sure. I just bought a Manix 2 Mid Backlock, so I'm hoping that the S30V is as good as I've heard it is.

S30v is good stuff IMHO.

[Bloke]

This may sound in the extreme, but, there is another layer to this discussion: Some steel types could possibly lead to someone's demise! Think about this: What if you are a Coast Guard rescue person and you went on the Spyderco forum and read a really Pro ZDP 189 thread, and decided "Ah this stuff is super sharp, its better than H1 or VG10, I'll take my Spyderco ZDP 189 folder with me instead of my Salt H1 Autonomy." And so the Coast Guard person is out there and has to rescue someone who is entangled in a mass of super strong monofilament fishing line material....and snaps open the ZDP 189 Endura...and before long as he or she is in the process of cutting the person free, all that nasty salt water corrodes the blade edge and the knife breaks down and the person they were rescuing drowns?

I know that may seem like an extreme case, but it could happen.

Here? On Earth? :eek: :confused:

[Strider]

It doesn’t matter at all when you work in an office and cut the odd thing now and then. Personally I can get by with the scissors in my desk's draw and a house key. :)

Most of the time I feel those are my most used "blades" despite not being the most carried.

[Eli Chaps]

It was the 8cr13 in a Byrd Meadowlark that I was pleasantly surprised by. I have carried that knife since the challenge ended and I remain impressed. I would have no issues using Spyderco’s 8cr13mov as my EDC steel.

Thank you sir for the clarification.

[The Mastiff]

SpyderEdgeForever wrote: ↑
26 Mar 2018 10:59
This may sound in the extreme, but, there is another layer to this discussion: Some steel types could possibly lead to someone's demise! Think about this: What if you are a Coast Guard rescue person and you went on the Spyderco forum and read a really Pro ZDP 189 thread, and decided "Ah this stuff is super sharp, its better than H1 or VG10, I'll take my Spyderco ZDP 189 folder with me instead of my Salt H1 Autonomy." And so the Coast Guard person is out there and has to rescue someone who is entangled in a mass of super strong monofilament fishing line material....and snaps open the ZDP 189 Endura...and before long as he or she is in the process of cutting the person free, all that nasty salt water corrodes the blade edge and the knife breaks down and the person they were rescuing drowns?

I know that may seem like an extreme case, but it could happen.

Here? On Earth? :eek: :confused:

If it was lava perhaps. Not even pure acid works on steel so fast that cords couldn't be cut. People have the wrong idea about corrosion on steel IMO. I have a few 1095 knives I've accumulated that were coated with rust but could still cut things despite having spent ? many years outside. They resharpen as well as shiny new ones even with the rust. There seem to be a bunch of people who think a blade will fail if it has rust spots.

On the other hand growing up near cleveland in the 60's I remember cars that were no more than 3 years old that had rusted completely through a quarter panel and was working on the frame. I got rid of a Chevy van because of rust. There was a little pile of it building up in the driveway where I parked it every day.

[blueeyedogre]

Perhaps I need to broaden my horizons and try some new steels? My local shop has a Para3 in the CPM S110V steel and the awesome blue handle that may need to find it's way home with me.