UHC - Ultra High Carbon steel sprint run

[Stuman]

cant wait to put it to the test. Time will reveal all.

[Stuman]

Demarcus steel or Wootz steel will not be visible until it’s been etched in acid and from what I can see that knife has not had an acid etch

I'm well aware of that. I am not, however, aware of any maker that goes thru the expense and trouble of pattern welded steel and then not etch it.

Did you read the blurb ? And it’s not all about the looks it’s about functionalality lmao joking aside I have a Demarcus steel kitchen knife that has not been etched and there many custom hand made knives out there that are not etched and are Demarcus or Wootz steel. Just because it a pattern welded steel it automatically does not have to be a etched blade.

[Eee]

apparently it’s a “Wootz steel” which is a type of Damascus or layered knife steel even though you can’t see any layers

Uhhh... Wootz eh? That's an interesting claim. And you think it's got invisible layers? Hmmm. Sorry OP, I think you're getting snookered for an easy $200. The puukko looks nice though.

For anyone interested, you can find the marketing blurb on the steel here. In the interest of "shiny footprints" I won't say much more than that.

I suppose it depends if you consider Wootz to be a steel or steel/process/microstructure. Wootz steel is very different to pattern welding and is generally a reasonably pure UHC steel (around 1.6% carbon) with trace elements (often <0.05% vanadium) which act as carbide formers. That could easily fit the Roselli description (since they don’t release details on the other elements), however, Historical Wootz swords are processed to a far lower hardness (<50HRC) in a way which creates a structure of carbon nano-tubes (which form the pattern when etched). This where my knowledge dries up, but it seems likely that the quench needed to reach +66HRC may not be compatible with the slower cooling which apparently forms the traditional Wootz structure. It won’t be any surprise, to most people here, that different heat treatment of the same/similar steel can give dramatically different properties. Having said that, having seen some of the things Murray Walker does with laminated White steel, it might be brittle in comparison with say an ESEE, but it seems to do pretty well and I’d assume is tougher than something like ZDP.

[Stuman]

apparently it’s a “Wootz steel” which is a type of Damascus or layered knife steel even though you can’t see any layers

Uhhh... Wootz eh? That's an interesting claim. And you think it's got invisible layers? Hmmm. Sorry OP, I think you're getting snookered for an easy $200. The puukko looks nice though.

For anyone interested, you can find the marketing blurb on the steel here. In the interest of "shiny footprints" I won't say much more than that.

I suppose it depends if you consider Wootz to be a steel or steel/process/microstructure. Wootz steel is very different to pattern welding and is generally a reasonably pure UHC steel (around 1.6% carbon) with trace elements (often <0.05% vanadium) which act as carbide formers. That could easily fit the Roselli description (since they don’t release details on the other elements), however, Historical Wootz swords are processed to a far lower hardness (<50HRC) in a way which creates a structure of carbon nano-tubes (which form the pattern when etched). This where my knowledge dries up, but it seems likely that the quench needed to reach +66HRC may not be compatible with the slower cooling which apparently forms the traditional Wootz structure. It won’t be any surprise, to most people here, that different heat treatment of the same/similar steel can give dramatically different properties. Having said that, having seen some of the things Murray Walker does with laminated White steel, it might be brittle in comparison with say an ESEE, but it seems to do pretty well and I’d assume is tougher than something like ZDP.

that’s intriguing and I’m really very curious about Roselli claim of it being a Wootz steel. The knowledge of real Demarcus steel was lost many many centuries ago and the few blades of true Demarcus steel we have are in museums now but according to scientific research the lines and waves in the real true Wootz or Demarcus steel are made during the final heat treatment(s) but can be attributed to the chemical and alloy composition of the steel but even scientific research has stalled and scientists are clueless of how these steels were crafted but still if you google it and have a look at those blades they are really very beautiful, stunning infact.

[Eee]

Stuman, a few interesting articles on Wootz, apologies if you’ve seen them already

http://www.tameshigiri.ca/2014/01/21/ra ... etallurgy/

http://insa.nic.in/writereaddata/UpLoad ... hoeven.pdf

http://www.tms.org/pubs/journals/JOM/98 ... -9809.html

[Stuman]

Just doing looking at real Demarcus swords and stumbled across this http://partsolutions.com/the-real-valyr ... cus-steel/ it looks as if the secret has been discovered and it’s all about carbon content and no chromium !!! So may be Roselli has taken pages out of some ones book and apparently this UHC steel is well knower in Finland as being superior to normal stainless and HC steel. Have a look at the link and tell me what any of you think, you want to start about middle of the page just under the Kramer knife.

[Stuman]

Stuman, a few interesting articles on Wootz, apologies if you’ve seen them already

http://www.tameshigiri.ca/2014/01/21/ra ... etallurgy/

http://insa.nic.in/writereaddata/UpLoad ... hoeven.pdf

http://www.tms.org/pubs/journals/JOM/98 ... -9809.html

Cheers Eee I’ll have a look at them.

[me2]

Let us know how it works. Provided it's given a proper heat treatment to take advantage of the uhc steel, and given its estimated carbide volume and hardness, it should be a decent cutter. Might need a little microbevel, but it depends on use.

[me2]

Did some research on these knives and ultra high carbon steels in general. The knives overall get positive reviews and the UHC steels can do some pretty interesting stuff: superplasticity (ductility over 600%), extremely high compressive strength (680,000 psi) with respectable ductility (25%), extremely fine grain size (less than 1 micron), and very small carbide size (as low as 0.3 microns). They are a general class of plain carbon and low alloy steels with carbon ranging from about 1% to 2.1% carbon and carbide volume from 15 % to 30%+.

[Stuman]

Well it has not come yet but it will land sometime this week hopefully but from what I’ve learned it’s a real cool steel with a lot of potential and I’m determined to get to the nitty gritty of this super UHC steel (actually just UHC) and I’ve ordered a pritty knife. Like I’ve mentioned above I’m not going to destroy this knife but I am going to give it a hard time and I’ve got some methods that are pritty standard and some that are not as it’s not a normal HC steel but does have its characteristics so I’m being mindful of that.

[Bloke]

Well it has not come yet but it will land sometime this week hopefully but from what I’ve learned it’s a real cool steel with a lot of potential and I’m determined to get to the nitty gritty of this super UHC steel (actually just UHC) and I’ve ordered a pritty knife. Like I’ve mentioned above I’m not going to destroy this knife but I am going to give it a hard time and I’ve got some methods that are pritty standard and some that are not as it’s not a normal HC steel but does have its characteristics so I’m being mindful of that.

All I'd like to say is: Don't chip it! :)

As you may well know Scandi grinds require a **** of a lot more material removal when it comes to sharpening compared to FFG's and in my experience Roselli's UHC doesn't like being ground at least by hand. Coarse diamonds fracture the edge and finer diamonds take forever. :eek:

Having said that I haven't tried SiC. :o

[Stuman]

I keep hearing good things and bad things but if you go on you tube and put in “UHC Steel” in the search bar there is a lot of useful info on it and it does have a very fine micro grain structure and has a lot of carbides so I hear which is primarily vanadium and it’s woots steel and it gets its vanadium from a infusion of O1 tool steel bits that are added. Here is a link to a video https://youtu.be/HvRqYE0ba-A

I’m unsure if this is how Roselli makes his but this give one an idea of the blood sweat and tears that go into a hand made UHC woots blade. Tell me what you think ?

[me2]

I don't think real wootz is what Roselli is using. Their steel just has similar carbon content to the original. Since they don't reveal the composition, it's just a guess. If they are really using a modern UHCS, it's properties and appearance won't be like wootz.

[zhyla]

As you may well know Scandi grinds require a **** of a lot more material removal when it comes to sharpening compared to FFG's and in my experience Roselli's UHC doesn't like being ground at least by hand. Coarse diamonds fracture the edge and finer diamonds take forever. :eek:

That sounds awful.

[Bloke]

As you may well know Scandi grinds require a **** of a lot more material removal when it comes to sharpening compared to FFG's and in my experience Roselli's UHC doesn't like being ground at least by hand. Coarse diamonds fracture the edge and finer diamonds take forever. :eek:

That sounds awful.

Ah, hahaha! It was worse than it sounds. :rolleyes:

I haven't used or even seen the knife in a few years so I should dig it up and re assess it. From memory it was pretty impressive steel and only chipped when I dropped it on ceramic tiles and it landed on the belly of the blade. :o

[Stuman]

As you may well know Scandi grinds require a **** of a lot more material removal when it comes to sharpening compared to FFG's and in my experience Roselli's UHC doesn't like being ground at least by hand. Coarse diamonds fracture the edge and finer diamonds take forever. :eek:

That sounds awful.

Ah, hahaha! It was worse than it sounds. :rolleyes:

I haven't used or even seen the knife in a few years so I should dig it up and re assess it. From memory it was pretty impressive steel and only chipped when I dropped it on ceramic tiles and it landed on the belly of the blade. :o

There are a lot of steels that will chip if you drop them on a hard surface, say a tiled floor for example. CTS Maxamet will chip for example so will a lot of hardened tool steels knives and so will ZDP 189 when it’s taken to a very high hardness. One of my Rocksteads done that this is why after I’d sent it back to Rockstead and got it sorted out I sold it and I only buy YXR7 Rockstead stuff now so when your telling me your UHCS knife chipped when you dropped it onto a hard surface I’m not surprised. Knives by there very design are not designed to be dropped onto hard surfaces unintentionally or intentionally and I know there are are throwing knives but they again are not designed to be dropped on hard surfaces. They are actually some steels that have microchipping under use also ceramic knives are well known for this as my feinzer kitchen knives say this is normal and won’t affect the cutting performance but I say it will after long use. Have you ever tried to sharpen ceramic knives ? They are a nightmare luckily my work sharp ken onion edition has diamond belts so that isn’t an issue anymore.

[Stuman]

Well my knife arrived today and it has to be said it’s eye candy ! I felt really sorry for it and for me because I was going to ruin a virgin steel knife at least cosmetically but it’s a really great steel and stood up to some abuse. I’d actually say from it’s performance and characteristics it’s like YXR7 steel and I know YXR7 but it actually was easer to sharpen than YXR7. I’m guessing it’s around the 65 to 66 HRC Mark May be slightly higher but I’m going to take it to work with me next week and test it’s Rockwell properly. I’m not sorry at all for buying the UHCS Roselli knife and after the let’s just say concerns about it’s ability to chip I’d say it’s harder to chip than 1095 or 52100 infact it’s more akin to CPM M4 or YXR7 interms of chipping ability and when I repeatedly stabbed it deep into wood and put lateral force pulling sideways every time the tip would just either pull out of the wood or just lift the wood up and splinter the wood. I’m going to buy another UHC steel knife after the performance I’ve seen here today with the knife and dont be dissuaded if your thinking of trying this steel. It really is a fantastic steel.

[MasterChiefPink]

@Stuman Have you tested the Rockwell?

[Pelagic]

15V and REX 121 are 3.4% aren't they? Does anything in the knife world have more carbon than those?

[supracor]

Living in Europe i can have Rosellis without much problems.
What they call Roselli Wootz is a non alloyed 1.5-2% C steel.
It surely isn't true wootz, but my Uhc Rosellis performs well :)