I have been testing this steel for several months now in one of my fillet designs and I am very impressed. When I was given the first test piece of this steel, I was told by the Uddeholm reps that the steel had the corrosion resistance of lc200n and the wear resistance and edge performance of Elmax. I was dubious and told them as much. After extensive testing of three knives with various heat treats, I would say that this steel offers extreme corrosion resistance (comparable to lc200n) and edge performance and wear resistance in the s30v/cpm154 range. I don't have any Elmax but I tested the prototypes side by side with cpm154 at 61 hrc and the results were very similar.
I think some of these new nitrogen steels have the potential to really transform the knife world and I'd like to see Spyderco continue to lead the way. This steel is very interesting and I think it would make a great mule (so we could get more people's opinions). If the results I have seen hold true across a broader user base then we might just have a great new steel available.
'
For the record, I've got no business dealings with Uddeholm. They asked if I would test it and I said yes but told them I wouldn't sugarcoat the results. I really didn't expect it to wow me and if it hadn't I probably would have just kept my mouth shut. I can't keep my mouth shut now though. This stuff looks really promising to me.
Thanks for your data on Vanax (Your knife hrc ~59 - 59.5) long term performance in salty environment. S30V edge retention is about where I assessed vanax as well. My latest test blade hrc is around 61.5 to almost 62. This blade has hunter/util profile.
I would like to have another data point for vanax at 61.5rc, if you are willing to long term test, please let me know. I would give it a handle and ship it to you. I really like profile of your blade ... if you don't mind me, gives that profile a highest form of compliment? hahaha yeah copying it sometime in the futyure :)
I've one last vanax blank to ht target for 62.25 - 63 rc.
I completely agree with Lance. The results I've seen from testing the new Vanax have been more than surprising. When I heard "edge holding like Elmax and corrosion resistance like LC200N" I thought ...marketing hype! Even though it sounded like hype, I was intrigued. So, I committed myself to weeks of HT testing and making a few knives. Now that the HT protocol is worked out, knives are made, I've done my own edge testing and I've seen some results from Lance's testing, I am a believer! I haven't made an identical Elmax knife for direct comparison yet but the test results are already so good that I know that even if Vanax edge holding isn't 100% like Elmax (not saying it isn't), this steel is going to be a really big deal. There's still a little more to learn from additional testing and I'm awaiting some additional information from Uddeholm, so I will reserve my final analysis until we get to the end of the process. Based on what I've seen so far I expect the rest of the tests to go extremely well. I started this project thinking this might turn out to be a great specialty steel that I might want to use for making knives specifically for fishing or other water-based activities. Instead, this is turning out to be far better than that. If the toughness data turns out to be what I am anticipating, this could replace S35VN and Elmax in my shop and become THE primary steel I use for making all types of outdoor knives (when I choose to use a stainless). That is a potential outcome I literally did not imagine was possible when this testing process began.
My biggest reason for wanting to see Spyderco make a Vanax Mule asap is that I favor Spyderco over other knife companies. Simply because Spyderco is my favorite knife company, I am hopeful that Sal gets a jump on his competitors and is the first to bring Vanax production knives to market.
Either way, I am confident we're going to see a lot more Vanax in the future.
Chad
Last edited by Xplorer on Fri Jan 05, 2018 11:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
:spyder: Spyderco fan and collector since 1991. :spyder:
Father of 2, nature explorer, custom knife maker.
@ckc_knifemaker on Instagram.
Thanks for your data on Vanax (Your knife hrc ~59 - 59.5) long term performance in salty environment. S30V edge retention is about where I assessed vanax as well. My latest test blade hrc is around 61.5 to almost 62. This blade has hunter/util profile.
....
I've one last vanax blank to ht target for 62.25 - 63 rc....==Luong
Hi Luong,
The knives Lance is testing right now are not the the same as the original knife he posted. Neither of the test knives he's using right now are 59-59.5. We have been working directly with Uddeholm to establish the best Vanax HT protocol specifically for knives. One of the 2 knives currently being tested has the best H/T for corrosion resistance and the other is heat treated and tempered for the hardest possible edge.
One thing we have seen through testing is that the hardest blade doesn't necessarily provide better edge characteristics.
If you want to discuss any specifics or questions you might have, feel free to send me a P.M.
Best regards,
Chad
:spyder: Spyderco fan and collector since 1991. :spyder:
Father of 2, nature explorer, custom knife maker.
@ckc_knifemaker on Instagram.
Sounds interesting, but I've been wondering about the future of the mule team program lately. I remember a few years ago when they would sell out super fast and everyone was clamoring for bigger runs and more frequent releases...
Now there are what, 6 currently available at the SFO? The LC200N and 20CV are still around, crickets on the PD1 and to some extent on A11, etc. I'm just guessing and maybe it's all fine with Spyderco, but if it were me I'd be wondering if it's worth it to keep doing them, or at least whether to dial it way back again.
I would like to have another data point for vanax at 61.5rc, if you are willing to long term test, please let me know. I would give it a handle and ship it to you. I really like profile of your blade ... if you don't mind me, gives that profile a highest form of compliment? hahaha yeah copying it sometime in the futyure :)...
==Luong
Hey Luong, you know I would love to test your HT on this steel but I'm pretty loaded down right now with projects. Honestly, I'd like to see you get some of your Vanax into the hands of one of the other fishermen/scientists around here. I know we have a few salties other than me. Maybe we'll get a volunteer in this thread. Bloke comes to mind but he's on the underside of the world.
As Chad said, the last two blades were heat treated differently...one for max hardness and one for max corrosion resistance. I saw virtually no difference in wear resistance between the two. but the blade treated for high corrosion resistance is visibly outperforming the harder blade (in corrosion resistance). Based on what I'm seeing so far, I would treat for high corrosion resistance since there seems to be a greater advantage to be gained in that area. That's what it looks like so far anyway. Still testing.
Your openness and generous sharing of ht are well appreciated! Since my ht research became an investment, so at this time, I'm unable reciprocate with BCMW HT info, thus solo I'll fly.
If ok to disclose, will Udderholm publish new knife-ht for general public?
Best,
==Luong
Xplorer wrote:
bluntcut wrote:Hey Lance,
Thanks for your data on Vanax (Your knife hrc ~59 - 59.5) long term performance in salty environment. S30V edge retention is about where I assessed vanax as well. My latest test blade hrc is around 61.5 to almost 62. This blade has hunter/util profile.
....
I've one last vanax blank to ht target for 62.25 - 63 rc....==Luong
Hi Luong,
The knives Lance is testing right now are not the the same as the original knife he posted. Neither of the test knives he's using right now are 59-59.5. We have been working directly with Uddeholm to establish the best Vanax HT protocol specifically for knives. One of the 2 knives currently being tested has the best H/T for corrosion resistance and the other is heat treated and tempered for the hardest possible edge.
One thing we have seen through testing is that the hardest blade doesn't necessarily provide better edge characteristics.
If you want to discuss any specifics or questions you might have, feel free to send me a P.M.
I always enjoy reading your posts. btw - none of my ht using secondary/high temper range.
Surfingringo wrote:
bluntcut wrote:Hey Lance,
...
I would like to have another data point for vanax at 61.5rc, if you are willing to long term test, please let me know. I would give it a handle and ship it to you. I really like profile of your blade ... if you don't mind me, gives that profile a highest form of compliment? hahaha yeah copying it sometime in the futyure :)...
==Luong
Hey Luong, you know I would love to test your HT on this steel but I'm pretty loaded down right now with projects. Honestly, I'd like to see you get some of your Vanax into the hands of one of the other fishermen/scientists around here. I know we have a few salties other than me. Maybe we'll get a volunteer in this thread. Bloke comes to mind but he's on the underside of the world.
As Chad said, the last two blades were heat treated differently...one for max hardness and one for max corrosion resistance. I saw virtually no difference in wear resistance between the two. but the blade treated for high corrosion resistance is visibly outperforming the harder blade (in corrosion resistance). Based on what I'm seeing so far, I would treat for high corrosion resistance since there seems to be a greater advantage to be gained in that area. That's what it looks like so far anyway. Still testing.
Xplorer wrote: If the toughness data turns out to be what I am anticipating, this could replace S35VN and Elmax in my shop and become THE primary steel I use for making all types of outdoor knives (when I choose to use a stainless).
Chad
Seriously? Now I am really intrigued. Tell us more.
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bluntcut wrote:Please email your shipping address to: luong (at) bluntcutmetalworks.com
For handle, I will use Desert IronWood instead of micarta, will see how it holdup.
Thanks,
==Luong
Done! :D
I don't have any experience with IronWood but if it's anything like our local hardwood it may move a little but it should play fairly well in salt water.
Anyhow, many thanks Luong for a great opportunity which I'm very much looking forward to and hopefully I won't disappoint by breaking bits off your knife or 'loosing' it or anything. :eek:
Best
Alex :)
A day without laughter is a day wasted. ~ Charlie Chaplin
Nice fillets and knife there sir Lance a lot. :) Is it true Bloke that the fish down under don't have scales? :D Give that knife some good use and a saltwater bath. Let us know how it holds up. We'll be looking forward to a report.
Tdog wrote:Nice fillets and knife there sir Lance a lot. :) Is it true Bloke that the fish down under don't have scales? :D Give that knife some good use and a saltwater bath. Let us know how it holds up. We'll be looking forward to a report.
Ah, hahaha! :)
As it goes T there are a few species of fish colloquial called Leather Jackets here and they have rough skin like a shark so you skin them a bit like a rabbit. They have teeth like parrot fish that clean nip through finer gauge fish hooks and they're very good eating. :cool:
Mate, I'm looking forward, albeit a little nervously to receiving the knife but I've already got an off beat idea or two going around in my head. :D
A day without laughter is a day wasted. ~ Charlie Chaplin
Tdog wrote:Nice fillets and knife there sir Lance a lot. :) Is it true Bloke that the fish down under don't have scales? :D Give that knife some good use and a saltwater bath. Let us know how it holds up. We'll be looking forward to a report.
Ah, hahaha! :)
As it goes T there are a few species of fish colloquial called Leather Jackets here and they have rough skin like a shark so you skin them a bit like a rabbit. They have teeth like parrot fish that clean nip through finer gauge fish hooks and they're very good eating. :cool:
Mate, I'm looking forward, albeit a little nervously to receiving the knife but I've already got an off beat idea or two going around in my head. :D
