Spyderco Reverse VS Ronin 2

[kykamo]

My apologies. This is going to be a loaded OP, :o please just do your best to answer what you can and any advise will be appreciated.

Im a police officer and decided i want to do some research and buy a fixed blade to place on my belt as a last ditch effort if all goes wrong. The only scenario i can think of, this early in my career, where i would us a knife on someone (instead of the other tools/weapons on my belt) would be with an attacker on top of me, my empty hand skills have/are failing me and im unable to get to my other weapons. With that in mind, iv been on the hunt for a blade to fulfill this need. However, since i am a knife enthusiast and enjoy martial arts, iv gone down some rabbit trails and have learned that the flat edged knives tend to cut the best (read, most efficient/optimal blade geometry for cutting), which in my application is the most important to me. That lead me to stumbled upon the yojimbo and ronin knives. Then i learned about Michael Janich and his knife fighting style with FGEO. Then i learned about Southnarc and his RGEI fight style which turned me on to the Reverse. Now im journeying down which fight styles i prefer since i will be learning more and more martial arts. I must say i LOVE combat techniques that revolve around gross motor skills and i cant imagine using a knife outside of extreme close quarters, so consequently RGEI is very appealing to me. So now i have more problems than i started with :p because i want a knife that i can evolve with and take me in any combat direction as i learn and train more.

Based on your experiences and knowledge, which blade geometry cuts better? Which knife is more comfortable to hold in different knife grips? Any pics of a size comparison? Hollow vs Flat ground (i have a soft spot for hollow grind, but in a combat situation?)? Which is easier to sharpen (i currently use a lanksy sharpening system and dont want to have buy round hones)?

Off the bat, it looks like the Reverse should be the best pick for the handle swapability alone, but, does it cut as well? Both stabbing and slicing (we know Janich's yojimbo/ronin knives do!). Is it harder for an average joe to sharpen? The utility of the wharncliffe is also hard to deny if i decide to edc this one day. Are there any other knives iv overlooked?

i thought about breaking this up into multiple threads, one about he martial arts side of things and one about which knife cuts better, but it's all so interrelated i decide to just puke it all here :p Thanks for any help guys

TL;DR

Which knife would cut better?
Can the Ronin 2 be used in RGEI?

[vivi]

Ronin 2 is easier to sharpen. Can't beat a straight edge in that respect.

I have not tried a reverse, but for civilian EDC I like my Ronin 2 quite a bit.

The reverse was recently discontinued. If funds allow it might not be a bad idea to pick up a reverse on clearance, and possibly purchasing a Ronin 2 at a later date.

I feel like either design could get the job done when it comes to close quarters self defense, but I am no expert. I think it comes down to your preferred grip. The ronin 2 works great for edge out grips, and the reverse is optimized for edge in.

I give the Ronin 2 the edge for utilitarian EDC because of the blade shape and ergonomics. The Reverse and Pikal don't double as utility knives as well as the Ronin and Yojimbo do in my experience. The handle doesn't work well in conventional grips on the reverse/pikal - it's a very focused design.

[clovisc]

If I were you, I would get the Reverse since it is being discontinued, and offered at a very good sale price by many vendors. It offers a variety of excellent grips, which will fit with various SD styles and tastes.

You can always pick up the Ronin 2 later on, if you still want one.

[ZrowsN1s]

I've got the folding versions of both knives (yojimbo and p'kal). Both styles seem pretty effective in practice, depends on what you prefer. I would say if you prefer a 'stab-centric' knife the Reverse is what you want. When you poke something with it you will easily go to the hilt so to speak. If you prefer a "cutting-centric" knife I'd go with the Ronin. With your thumb on the spine and the really nice hollow grind the Ronin will cut deep and wide.

As for the martial arts side of things I've been very much enjoying Janich's Counter Blade Concepts. Not a lot of "filler" in his vids, just what you need.

[kykamo]

Thanks guys. Ill check out Counter Blade Concepts and thanks for letting me know the reverse is no more. Maybe I will get that quickly then.

One question tho, Can i sharpen the reverse with my lanksy system? or can i not use flat stones at all?

Thanks

[ZrowsN1s]

A rounded stone works better, but you could sharpen the Reverse with the lansky. It'll hit the corners of your stones more than the middle, but it's doable. Just use a sharpie on the edge so you can see where it's hitting.

[Michael Janich]

Dear Kykamo:

Thank you for your post and your service to the community!

Thanks also for your interest in both the Reverse and the Ronin 2. The previous posts are spot on. Since the Reverse is discontinued, I'd recommend getting it first--especially if you think you might gravitate toward edge-in tactics. Ergonomically, the Ronin 2 is not set up for those, so it's not super comfortable in edge-in grips.

You might also want to check into Mickey Yurco's custom work. In addition to being a retired LEO and a superb knifemaker and martial artist, Mickey (who's generous custom Ronin 2 actually inspired the design) makes trainer versions of the Ronin 2. He can do them in aluminum or steel with scales and they are truly outstanding.

I believe the lack of a trainer for the Reverse was one of the reasons it never sold as well as it could have, but that might just be me...

Thank you again for your interest and your service. Please let us know what you ultimately decide and how you like it.

Stay safe,

Mike

[kykamo]

Wow Mike! thanks for replying! Ill check out Mickey. Thanks for being such an involved part of the community!

I actually just had a chance to hold both knives. I must say they were a lot lighter in hand than i thought and definitely not too big. The ronin felt really good and the blade looks awesome. I think ill have to get both one day, but ill shop for a discounted reverse first.

Just curious tho. Has anyone done cut tests with a reverse? Does the slight curve give it any subtle differences to the cut or stab? Or will it pretty much cut just like a wharncliffe?

Thanks guys

[Michael Janich]

Hey, Kykamo:

Thank you for the kind words.

I've done cutting tests with both knives (surprise, surprise) and there isn't any appreciable difference in performance. While there is lots of speculation about reduced friction because of the FFG of the Reverse, the high hollow of the Ronin 2 reduces the terminal edge thickness so much that the difference is pretty negligible. The blade profile still makes more difference than the grind.

The slight concave to the edge of the Reverse isn't so pronounced that it snags like hawkbills sometimes do; however, in thrusting (particularly reverse grip, elbow-articulated movements) the arc of the blade matches the arc of motion of the hand. This is very similar in concept to the original Warrior (which had a blade curve optimized to match the arc of motion of the arm), but the arc is much more subtle. Nevertheless, it keeps the point of the blade on line with the arc of motion of the hand for maximum accuracy--especially with their signature angle 1 and angle 2 thrusts to the eyes.

The point of the Ronin 2, on the other hand, is in line with the cutting edge. The taper of the spine to meet the edge creates a "ramp" that drives the edge into the bottom of a wound channel to shear along its length. It is not as well centered as the point of the Reverse, but very capable. It also accentuates the affect of cutting out of a thrust, as in MBC's "Comma Cut" tactic.

One thing I would recommend with both knives is "static cord" IWB carry. Remove the G- clip and attach a loop of 55 cord to the tip of the sheath. Then tuck the sheathed knife into the crease of your hip (a la Appendix-style carry). When you draw, the sheath and the knife come out together and can be drawn in any direction. When the sheath hits the end of the cord, it pops off the knife and you're in business. Very importantly, you can also safely re-sheathe your knife with it well away from your body. For those of us who already have too much packed inside our waistbands, this is a very good thing.

I hope this helps.

Stay safe,

Mike

[kykamo]

Wow again, that was a very informative post. Thanks so much for the paracord sheath carry advice as well. Ill be experimenting lots when my knife gets to me. Last night i ordered a Reverse on sale. Im excited for it!

Thanks again for all your help guys