MAP policy change? 35%

[Eli Chaps]

Thank You Sal. I honestly think if everyone knew how crazy business really is dealing with: fakes, lawsuits, competition from countries with no labor laws, scammers, unethical competition...etc they would really appreciate a business like Spyderco who tries to treat the people it deals decently and shows loyalty to stakeholders/customers when it isn't always great for Spyderco's bottom line.

Interesting thread.

I get the impression that many of you would be happier if we made all of our knives in China (cheap) and only sold to Walmart & Amazon (cheap) so YOU can get what YOU want as cheaply as possible? Or maybe we could get our crew, dealers, advertisers, shippers, suppliers, etc., to work for free?

It is our dealers that have asked us to do this. Not just B&M stores, but internet as well. Internet dealers have thanked us for doing it. The very same dealers that you get our knives from. Surely you aren't saying that you don't care about them, are you?

We don't make any more money from map. In fact it costs us more to monitor and enforce. Please try to broaden your understanding of production and distribution. You will have greater appreciation for what it takes to get you our product.

sal

Amen. My business deals with these issues daily and I think often people don't realize just how fierce it is out there and just how unfairly lopsided the scales are in favor of unethical entities.

I haven't stepped foot in a Walmart in years and only ever have when I absolutely had to and I don't shop on Amazon.

A large knife maker moved into our area and when they did there was also a bunch of hoopla about them moving some of their knife production to China. All the anti-America rhetoric came spewing forth. The owner of the company did a lengthy interview in which he explained they only moved a small percentage of the production to China and only because Walmart had required them to meet such a low price point there was no other way for them to go. But boy, those big ole loud voices sure didn't quite shopping at Walmart.

[sovereign]

So it is price fixing which is being done at the behest of the major online stores.

[RamZar]

I was fine with Spyderco prices until 12/31/2015. I remember one of my first top end Spydercos in September 2005 was the Military Model C36GPSE with G-10 Handle and ComboEdge S30V steel for $103.09 shipped. Now, the PlainEdge C36GPE with G-10/S30V is $160.77 and soon to be $174.18!

[wsdavies]

People vote with their dollars and that leads to the reality in the market. People that knowingly buy fakes make the problem possible. My dad always said a good deal is a good deal when both sides win. I try to live by that. I charge what I think is fair to me and to my customers all things considered. Some things I could make more on, but I want to treat folks right. Some people appreciate that, and some just care about the cheapest deal.

Thank You Sal. I honestly think if everyone knew how crazy business really is dealing with: fakes, lawsuits, competition from countries with no labor laws, scammers, unethical competition...etc they would really appreciate a business like Spyderco who tries to treat the people it deals decently and shows loyalty to stakeholders/customers when it isn't always great for Spyderco's bottom line.

Interesting thread.

I get the impression that many of you would be happier if we made all of our knives in China (cheap) and only sold to Walmart & Amazon (cheap) so YOU can get what YOU want as cheaply as possible? Or maybe we could get our crew, dealers, advertisers, shippers, suppliers, etc., to work for free?

It is our dealers that have asked us to do this. Not just B&M stores, but internet as well. Internet dealers have thanked us for doing it. The very same dealers that you get our knives from. Surely you aren't saying that you don't care about them, are you?

We don't make any more money from map. In fact it costs us more to monitor and enforce. Please try to broaden your understanding of production and distribution. You will have greater appreciation for what it takes to get you our product.

sal

Amen. My business deals with these issues daily and I think often people don't realize just how fierce it is out there and just how unfairly lopsided the scales are in favor of unethical entities.

I haven't stepped foot in a Walmart in years and only ever have when I absolutely had to and I don't shop on Amazon.

A large knife maker moved into our area and when they did there was also a bunch of hoopla about them moving some of their knife production to China. All the anti-America rhetoric came spewing forth. The owner of the company did a lengthy interview in which he explained they only moved a small percentage of the production to China and only because Walmart had required them to meet such a low price point there was no other way for them to go. But boy, those big ole loud voices sure didn't quite shopping at Walmart.

[MacLaren]

I was fine with Spyderco prices until 12/31/2015. I remember one of my first top end Spydercos in September 2005 was the Military Model C36GPSE with G-10 Handle and ComboEdge S30V steel for $103.09 shipped. Now, the PlainEdge C36GPE with G-10/S30V is $160.77 and soon to be $174.18!

My bad!!! Read that wrong.

[sal]

We've not changed our margins on the Military in more than 10 years. Material costs have gone up as well as costs to process those materials.

sal

[bh49]

I was fine with Spyderco prices until 12/31/2015. I remember one of my first top end Spydercos in September 2005 was the Military Model C36GPSE with G-10 Handle and ComboEdge S30V steel for $103.09 shipped. Now, the PlainEdge C36GPE with G-10/S30V is $160.77 and soon to be $174.18!

Wow!! In 2 years it's went up over $70???
Yowza!!!

Looks more like 12 for me.

[MacLaren]

I was fine with Spyderco prices until 12/31/2015. I remember one of my first top end Spydercos in September 2005 was the Military Model C36GPSE with G-10 Handle and ComboEdge S30V steel for $103.09 shipped. Now, the PlainEdge C36GPE with G-10/S30V is $160.77 and soon to be $174.18!

Wow!! In 2 years it's went up over $70???
Yowza!!!

Looks more like 12 for me.

Yup. I corrected it lol

[curlyhairedboy]

Thanks for the input, sal. I know Spyderco has to do what's needed to survive as a company. Price increases always generate a little complaining, but I prefer a world with Spyderco knives more than a world without em.

[RamZar]

Duplicate.

[RamZar]

Duplicate.

[RamZar]

I was fine with Spyderco prices until 12/31/2015. I remember one of my first top end Spydercos in September 2005 was the Military Model C36GPSE with G-10 Handle and ComboEdge S30V steel for $103.09 shipped. Now, the PlainEdge C36GPE with G-10/S30V is $160.77 and soon to be $174.18!

Wow!! In 2 years it's went up over $70???
Yowza!!!

Looks more like 12 for me.

Yup. I corrected it lol

Yes. A little over 12 years ago and it still functions great. It went back to Spyderco a few years ago for a spa treatment and came back almost as good as new.

I still have the email from that long-gone dealer and in that same invoice of September 2, 2005 I purchased these Spydercos (I realy liked ComboEdge on longer blades):

• C70S Spyderco A.T.R., VG-10 ComboEdge, Stainless Handle, $97.41
• C63GPS Spyderco Chinook II, S30V ComboEdge, G-10 Handle, $105.92
• C36GPSE Spyderco Military Model, S30V ComboEdge, G-10 Handle, $103.09

The new Chinook4 S30V/G-10 is $203.97 and soon to be $220.97!

[SF Native]

I was fine with Spyderco prices until 12/31/2015. I remember one of my first top end Spydercos in September 2005 was the Military Model C36GPSE with G-10 Handle and ComboEdge S30V steel for $103.09 shipped. Now, the PlainEdge C36GPE with G-10/S30V is $160.77 and soon to be $174.18!

Sure, but is your paycheck the same as 2005?
How about the cost of housing or medical care.
This is to be expected. All businesses re-evaluate costs, usually on a yearly basis.

Honestly, I find this whole thread funny. Pages and pages of posted with requests for super steel, carbon fiber this and that, collaboration with this guy and that, another slysz, another rassenti... and now we hear about a price increase that happens ever year and the sky is falling. I'm taking my ball and going home. I can't afford that anymore.
Give me break.

[RamZar]

We've not changed our margins on the Military in more than 10 years. Material costs have gone up as well as costs to process those materials.

sal

I understand.

However, come January 1, 2018 the street price of the Military will have gone up 69% compared to what I paid for one in September 2005.

[sal]

It would be nice if salaries went up equivalently. Maybe in the future, we get lucky? :rolleyes:

sal

[buccilli15]

I'm not too concerned about the price increase. Most Spyderco product is still a better value than competition. I'm also loving the trend of seeing new Golden models to which I am more than willing to pay more for.

[RamZar]

Hopefully.

The $103 I paid for the Military in 2005 adjusted for inflation should be $129 in January 2018.

Also, since the recession of 2007-2009 salary increases had been stagnant or moderate until the past few years.

[mastiff]

So Spyderco gets nothing and the dealers get everything. If Spyderco was getting more then yeah, but just the dealers get more? That's sad in a way I can't even express. Could you tell us which dealers pushed for this?

[SpyderEdgeForever]

I'll put my "two cents" in here on this:

I can see the issue from both sides, from the knife maker/sellers and the knife consumer/purchaser, since I am a knife consumer/collector/user.

Costs have increased across the board in all areas and also in knife-specific areas such as materials/metal/steel and handle materials, machining and machine costs, energy, and all of that, as well as the fact that generally it takes highly-paid skilled designers to be able to come up with the new knife designs. As has already been pointed out (no pun intended!) it is rough to run a business in the modern world with all these and other costs and liabilities and I can totally understand price increases.

I personally love Spyderco knives and the people behind them. I have deep respect and admiration for Sal, Eric, Gail, Kristi, Michael, and everyone involved there. God-willing, I will continue to be a Spyderco customer for the rest of my life. I can understand though ofcourse that it is economically-painful to look your favorite knife over and see the price of it increase. I wish we had a world where people could comfortably have all the material things they need and desire at rock-bottom prices, like when I look at a Sears Catalog from 1918 and see a quality lock-blade folding hunting knife for 1.45 or a fixed blade knife for 16.00 dollars a dozen. Incredible and amazing.

And so here is my question: Really, ultimately, I am not the decision-maker on this, but, the question is, is there some "comfortable compromise" or middle-ground to this, that would achieve the following three objectives?:

1 Spyderco is able to comfortably and easily make a very good profit and cover all their operating and production costs, while providing top-quality knives to we the customers.

2 The retail knife sellers are able to cover all of their costs and make a decent for them profit margin.

3 The knives can be at their least expensive to the consumer while being the best quality.

[SpyderEdgeForever]

It would be nice if salaries went up equivalently. Maybe in the future, we get lucky? :rolleyes:

sal

sal, thank you for your understanding and patience with people on here, especially me, and all of our questions and feedback. I for one appreciate you and everything you do. Thank you :)