Stainless Knife Steel: A Machinist's view, your feedback welcomed.

[SpyderEdgeForever]

I had an interesting conversation with a professional machinist about various types of steel and metal alloys, and metals in general, their present use and their predicted futures. His opinion and viewpoint was this regarding knives: I explained to him about such new steel like H1 and LC200N, S30V, and others that Spyderco collectors and users, as well as other knife users have been getting into, and he told me, that from the way he sees it, people ought to be content and satisfied with nothing more "exotic" than the 440 series of Stainless Steel, such as 440 A, 440B, 440C, that sort of thing, apart from the various carbon steel that is available. I explained the intense corrosion-resistance, hardness, and other aspects these other more new steel types have, and he acknowledged that, but holds firm to his view: He said there is plenty of knowledge and industrial framework for producing 440 stainless, and its a waste of time, energy and resources to develop these other specialty steel alloys. He then went on to tell me what he believes is far more vital and important for human industry and life, and that is the field of Pollution Control technologies. He proceeded to tell me (my paraphrase here): "Instead of spending time and money on new knife steel, engineers, machinists, and technologists, scientists should instead focus their efforts of new filters, machines, mechanisms, and devices that can clean the earth's water and air and stop side-reactions in chemical factories that create waste and pollution. Having clean air and water is a lot more important than new knife materials." He told me and I did acknowledge this one part: That steel is one of the most recyclable of all materials worldwide. I told him how I enjoy discussing these and other topics on the internet forum here, and he told me to relay this to you all and myself: That we need to focus more on how to make plastic and other water bottles clean in their manufacturing, than be focused on new knife materials. What would all of you say to this guy if you were to have that discussion with him? He is very intelligent and we had a good discussion but for some reason he just could not or would not really get excited about new types of knife steel and blade materials. He is free to his view, but I'd like your feedback on this.

Meanwhile, a second person recently gave me this prediction, and I'd like your views on this, as well: He predicted that advanced 3d printing will make more conventional stainless steel and carbon steel of high quality so cheap and abundant that no one will be interested in more exotic materials like carbon fiber or even advanced exotic "super steel".

[The Mastiff]

I'd tell him "440 sucks you smelly hippy", then punch him. That's how I feel about his ideas.

Joe

[demoncase]

I'd tell him "440 sucks you smelly hippy", then punch him. That's how I feel about his ideas.

Joe

The man makes a good point. I concur.

[demoncase]

Meanwhile, a second person recently gave me this prediction, and I'd like your views on this, as well: He predicted that advanced 3d printing will make more conventional stainless steel and carbon steel of high quality so cheap and abundant that no one will be interested in more exotic materials like carbon fiber or even advanced exotic "super steel".

This second person has his wires crossed on costs and drivers. Additive Manufacturing won't make steel cheaper or more abundant

Good quality carbon and Stainless Steel barstock are as cheap as they ever are ever going to be....and more abundant than ever. When we have disposable razors, steel is as cheap as it ever will be.

Powder metals for additive manufacture are 100x the cost weight for weight.

Additive manufacture only makes sense for either
1. Complex shapes that would be impossible to make any other way (fun things with the internal structure of bone)
2. Complex shapes that are cost prohibitive to make any other way due to huge amounts of stock removal.(spacecraft docking collars)
3. Complex shapes that can completely redesigned to improve them if 3d printed (engine blocks with myriad oilways)

A knife blade is a flat piece of metal. In the grand scheme of engineering it is not a complex shape.

Additive manufacturing gives you nothing for this type of shape

[SpyderEdgeForever]

While 440 stainless steel has been mentioned, what are the ups and down sides to this steel for knives?

[The Deacon]

I suspect 440 series steel would be an "upgrade" for over 75% of all the stainless steel knives sold in any given year and that considerably less than 10% of all stainless steel knives sold use anything more "exotic" than 440C. Among the "knife buying public" the folks who campaign on this and other knife forums for more exotic steels are the exceptions, not the rule. We're like the folks who buy cars with 500+ horsepower, watches that can survive ocean depths that would kill their owner, or booze that's older than the person drinking it.

[Doc Dan]

Certainly, there is nothing 'wrong' with the 440 series of steels. Spyderco still uses them, by whatever name they are called. Even ATS-34 and 154CM are technically 440 class steels, just tweaked a bit. BD1 and 440C are great user steels. 440A can be run very hard where it does perform pretty well. Most people are well served by these steels. I agree with Paul that those of us on this forum and similar places are those who like more performance and, truth be told, some new exotic steel to brag about. I agree with his analogy of the +500 HP car because it is nice to brag about having it, but we really cannot use all of that power day to day.

[awa54]

I'd tell him "440 sucks you smelly hippy", then punch him. That's how I feel about his ideas.

Joe

The man makes a good point. I concur.

Gotta love Nihilists

not that I'm a real fan of 440, mind you...

[El Gato]

I'd tell him "440 sucks you smelly hippy", then punch him. That's how I feel about his ideas.

Joe

+1 I'm with you Joe, 100%

I neither buy nor want any of the steels mentioned in this thread so far.
I do not buy certain steels to "brag about". I choose a blade steel to use.
My money, my choices. I vote with my wallet.
But I have no need to "brag" about the steel I select for my knives.

[shunsui]

I suspect many "professional machinists" these days just load bar stock into a robot and push the GO button.

Probably just bored. Sounds like he would rather be in the EPA.

Oh, and I agree with Joe.

[MichaelScott]

It’s “hippie”.

I think he is more concerned about signaling his politically correct attitude. Whether one is interested in making different kinds of steel or a more humane mouse trap, it has little bearing on his political or economic concerns. I do have some concerns that we don’t eventually make the planet a smog pit, but that has little to do with the search for and manufacture of advanced technology, including steel.

Finally, I don’t like someone telling me what I should do, like or say.

[Bloke]

I'd tell him "440 sucks you smelly hippy", then punch him. That's how I feel about his ideas.

Joe

+1 I'm with you Joe, 100%

I neither buy nor want any of the steels mentioned in this thread so far.
I do not buy certain steels to "brag about". I choose a blade steel to use.
My money, my choices. I vote with my wallet.
But I have no need to "brag" about the steel I select for my knives.

I'd probably just cut off his ponytail with my S110V Millie and take his drugs.

[awa54]

I'd tell him "440 sucks you smelly hippy", then punch him. That's how I feel about his ideas.

Joe

+1 I'm with you Joe, 100%

I neither buy nor want any of the steels mentioned in this thread so far.
I do not buy certain steels to "brag about". I choose a blade steel to use.
My money, my choices. I vote with my wallet.
But I have no need to "brag" about the steel I select for my knives.

I'd probably just cut off his ponytail with my S110V Millie and take his drugs.

See! I said you were "on something"!!

...probably just BP & cholesterol meds if he's really an old hippie

[Bloke]

I'd probably just cut off his ponytail with my S110V Millie and take his drugs.

See! I said you were "on something"!!

...probably just BP & cholesterol meds if he's really an old hippie

Ah, hahaha!

I want what SEF takes!

[Evil D]

Aren't the vast majority of steels used in knives designed for other purposes anyway? How many dedicated cutlery steels are there by comparison? Sounds like this guy knows little and cares even less about knives.

[SpyderEdgeForever]

Yeah those are all good points. The guy is smart when it comes to machining but his attitude seemed to be that I and other knife enthusiasts focus too much on knives and his attitude is that we should instead focus on the "bigger picture" of stuff like environment and pollution control technologies. He said a knife is just a cutting tool and we have plenty of those already.

[Evil D]

Yeah those are all good points. The guy is smart when it comes to machining but his attitude seemed to be that I and other knife enthusiasts focus too much on knives and his attitude is that we should instead focus on the "bigger picture" of stuff like environment and pollution control technologies. He said a knife is just a cutting tool and we have plenty of those already.

Yep. God forbid anyone have a hobby. For that matter I hope he only machines parts that are some way related to saving the environment or he should be focused on the big picture.

[jpm2]

I'd tell him to trash all his carbide and hss bits, and replace them with 440*.

[awa54]

I'd tell him to trash all his carbide and hss bits, and replace them with 440*.

lol! Perfect answer!