[Legal concern] Please use blade lengths like 2.45" / 2.95" / 3.45" instead of 2.5" / 3" / 3.5"

[sal]

Hi Mus,

That's about as good of an apology as you are likely to get.

Hey Wrdwrght....thanx :D

sal

[mus]

I suspect the OP is a troll by another name. Prove me wrong and I'll apologize.

I don't know how I can prove but I'm not a troll.

So you understand, we have an account here (active of late after months of inactivity) that presents smidge-here, smudge-there proposals, then belittles the doubters. If you're not doing that, fine, and welcome.

Got it mate Sir, no worries. This is my second day on the forum. And you're not gonna hear any requests from me anytime soon :)

By the way it is really great that the founder of this company takes his time to read and answer posts... Wow... This is incredible. Now I'm sold! :)

[jabba359]

I carry my Military, Manix 2, Para 2, Stretch, SpydieChef, etc, etc. all the time in Los Angeles and the surrounding cities. The key to most of the restrictions around here is that the limit is 3" when carried in plain sight. Trying to determine what "carried in plain sight" means is tricky, but I did some research a few years back and found a CA case where the court ruled that a man that attempted to conceal his knife (though didn't manage total concealment, as the handle was partially sticking out) was in fact succeeding in meeting the criteria of concealing his knife. Though that ruling was to his detriment (since it was a fixed blade, which is illegal to conceal), it tells me that an attempt to conceal a knife by clipping it inside your pocket and having a bit of the top of the handle poking out meets the legal definition of concealed, as defined by the court in California (I don't recall which court off the top of my head). Since "concealed" -by definition- is the opposite of "in plain sight", a pocketknife clipped inside my pocket is not in plain sight, ergo the 3" limit does not apply.

I've never given the police a reason to bother me and they never have. I suspect the law is in place mostly to add additional charges to people that are already committing crimes, or to give police an excuse to stop someone who may be suspicious. Most of these additional limits imposed by certain cities also have additional clauses that allow for religious exemptions (I'm also covered under the work exemption since I use mine in the course of my day to day job), so perhaps we better form the CA chapter of the Church of Spyderco, which has among its beliefs that we must carry a 3"+ Spyderco at all times.

[DougC-3]

^^^ This

[mus]

I carry my Military, Manix 2, Para 2, Stretch, SpydieChef, etc, etc. all the time in Los Angeles and the surrounding cities. The key to most of the restrictions around here is that the limit is 3" when carried in plain sight. Trying to determine what "carried in plain sight" means is tricky, but I did some research a few years back and found a CA case where the court ruled that a man that attempted to conceal his knife (though didn't manage total concealment, as the handle was partially sticking out) was in fact succeeding in meeting the criteria of concealing his knife. Though that ruling was to his detriment (since it was a fixed blade, which is illegal to conceal), it tells me that an attempt to conceal a knife by clipping it inside your pocket and having a bit of the top of the handle poking out meets the legal definition of concealed, as defined by the court in California (I don't recall which court off the top of my head). Since "concealed" -by definition- is the opposite of "in plain sight", a pocketknife clipped inside my pocket is not in plain sight, ergo the 3" limit does not apply.

I've never given the police a reason to bother me and they never have. I suspect the law is in place mostly to add additional charges to people that are already committing crimes, or to give police an excuse to stop someone who may be suspicious. Most of these additional limits imposed by certain cities also have additional clauses that allow for religious exemptions (I'm also covered under the work exemption since I use mine in the course of my day to day job), so perhaps we better form the CA chapter of the Church of Spyderco, which has among its beliefs that we must carry a 3"+ Spyderco at all times.

Haha Church of Spyderco, that's good.

You're lucky in the sense that LA only imposes concealed carry restrictions. Northern California municipal codes are much more strict. San Francisco, Sacramento, Oakland, San Mateo, Palo Alto, Mountain View all prohibit carrying knives 3 or more inches long on public premises.

[vivi]

I carry my Military, Manix 2, Para 2, Stretch, SpydieChef, etc, etc. all the time in Los Angeles and the surrounding cities. The key to most of the restrictions around here is that the limit is 3" when carried in plain sight. Trying to determine what "carried in plain sight" means is tricky, but I did some research a few years back and found a CA case where the court ruled that a man that attempted to conceal his knife (though didn't manage total concealment, as the handle was partially sticking out) was in fact succeeding in meeting the criteria of concealing his knife. Though that ruling was to his detriment (since it was a fixed blade, which is illegal to conceal), it tells me that an attempt to conceal a knife by clipping it inside your pocket and having a bit of the top of the handle poking out meets the legal definition of concealed, as defined by the court in California (I don't recall which court off the top of my head). Since "concealed" -by definition- is the opposite of "in plain sight", a pocketknife clipped inside my pocket is not in plain sight, ergo the 3" limit does not apply.

I've never given the police a reason to bother me and they never have. I suspect the law is in place mostly to add additional charges to people that are already committing crimes, or to give police an excuse to stop someone who may be suspicious. Most of these additional limits imposed by certain cities also have additional clauses that allow for religious exemptions (I'm also covered under the work exemption since I use mine in the course of my day to day job), so perhaps we better form the CA chapter of the Church of Spyderco, which has among its beliefs that we must carry a 3"+ Spyderco at all times.

Haha Church of Spyderco, that's good.

You're lucky in the sense that LA only imposes concealed carry restrictions. Northern California municipal codes are much more strict. San Francisco, Sacramento, Oakland, San Mateo, Palo Alto, Mountain View all prohibit carrying knives 3 or more inches long on public premises.

Has it always been like that? Could have sworn fixed blades didn't have length limits in those areas when not concealed.

[ejcr98]

Just sharpen them a few times and the length will drop down to legal limits.

Not going to work where some coppers go by the specified blade length. Often, you're at the mercy of subjectivity.

I agree with the OP and this. Unfortunately, many jurisdictions use a "less than" blade limit and the best way to prove one did not intend to breach the statute is by making reference to the blade length published by the manufacturer.

I am an attorney who frequents federal facilities with some regularity. Federal facilities prohibit the entry of dangerous weapons. The statute excludes from the definition of dangerous weapons knives with blade lengths less than 2.5" so that knives with blade lengths of 2.5", inclusive, or more are not permitted.

In my opinion, someone subject to such a blade limit is less likely to buy a knife that is slightly over the limit than someone not subject to the blade limit is likely not to buy the knife because it slightly under the blade limit.

That is why I hope the upcoming Compression Lock Little Native has a published specified blade lenght slightly less than 2.5", say 2.45" to 2.49", so that I can use it as my work edc and know that at least based on the specified length, the knife is allowed.

[Doc Dan]

I've never heard of blade length laws being used to arrest someone. I've carried my Police 3 etc. in countless establishments with no weapons policies without issue.

I have seen it and I have had it tried on me. The cop in my case used his fingers as a measuring guide and my knife was too long. I told him to get a tape before me made a mistake and it turned out my knife was just under the limit. He tried many different ways to get the blade to be longer and could not. He was not happy, but he let me go.

[FCM415]

Already the case as Sal already said.

Para2 is 3.44

Delica is 2.91

Etc etc

[Northglenn500]

I think what the OP is saying is, document the actual blade length on the on-line catalog. Then, when an officer looks up the knife to verify the blade length of what he/she believes to be a 3" knife is actually listed at 2.95", and is therefore not considered an illegal knife. In Colorado, most municipal, as well as the state criminal statutes state "3.5 inches or longer.." Having it listed by the manufacturer as 3.45 would go a long way towards helping those who have to talk to the Police.

[The Deacon]

I think what the OP is saying is, document the actual blade length on the on-line catalog. Then, when an officer looks up the knife to verify the blade length of what he/she believes to be a 3" knife is actually listed at 2.95", and is therefore not considered an illegal knife. In Colorado, most municipal, as well as the state criminal statutes state "3.5 inches or longer.." Having it listed by the manufacturer as 3.45 would go a long way towards helping those who have to talk to the Police.

The problem with that is that the knives are sharpened by hand, so small differences in blade length are possible. Besides, a beat cop is not going to Google Spyderco and figure out what model you have. He probably won't even measure with a ruler, he'll just go by a 4 fingers = 3" guestimate. If you're charged, no lawyer worth his salt is going to allow anything other than an actual, physical, measurement of the blade with am accurate ruler be used to show whether or not the knife is illegal.

Again, unless you've already done something to provoke a cop into stopping and frisking you, it's much ado about nothing.

[ejcr98]

If you're charged, no lawyer worth his salt is going to allow anything other than an actual, physical, measurement of the blade with am accurate ruler be used to show whether or not the knife is illegal.

Again, unless you've already done something to provoke a cop into stopping and frisking you, it's much ado about nothing.

Deacon, both quoted assertions are not necessarily true. First, there are places were you have to go through security to enter and there is a blade length limit to the knives that are allowed, such as federal facilities, that have a less than 2.5" blade length limit, so that the issue is not merely address by not acting stupid to avoid a cop stopping and frisking you. Second, if you are charged and the knife is actually over the blade length limit, a good lawyer would look to the manufacturer's specifications to show that there was no intent to breach the statute if the specs state that the knife is under the blade length limit. Most criminal statutes have a substantial intent component to them that may be defeated by pointing to the specs.

[losinground]

Get your knives reground.

[mus]

If you're charged, no lawyer worth his salt is going to allow anything other than an actual, physical, measurement of the blade with am accurate ruler be used to show whether or not the knife is illegal.

Again, unless you've already done something to provoke a cop into stopping and frisking you, it's much ado about nothing.

Deacon, both quoted assertions are not necessarily true. First, there are places were you have to go through security to enter and there is a blade length limit to the knives that are allowed, such as federal facilities, that have a less than 2.5" blade length limit, so that the issue is not merely address by not acting stupid to avoid a cop stopping and frisking you. Second, if you are charged and the knife is actually over the blade length limit, a good lawyer would look to the manufacturer's specifications to show that there was no intent to breach the statute if the specs state that the knife is under the blade length limit. Most criminal statutes have a substantial intent component to them that may be defeated by pointing to the specs.

This. And having a spec sheet as proof with you (in your car, on your phone) would actually significantly lower the chances that the issue is escalated into a court matter.

Already the case as Sal already said.

Para2 is 3.44

Delica is 2.91

Etc etc

Thank God yes. It's the reason I have the Native 5 (but not Caly 3 )

Really hoping that the upcoming Lil' Native will lie at around 2.45" and Caly at 2.95"...

[MDravox]

I completely agree on this matter. I am an active MD in Las Vegas and also a huge knife enthusiast. I agree on the matter that no cop will mess with you unless you give them a reason to. But I also agree that it would be very nice to have proof in their specs pages that your knife/knives are within legal limits and avoid situations escalate to where it could affect your whole life. We all know that these laws are nonsense but it is what it is.

[ZrowsN1s]

*retracted for now

[Holzfaeller]

I had a similar experience as what Doc Dan described. Years ago a small-town Texas cop saw my Buck 110 on my belt and stopped me to investigate whether I was carrying an illegal weapon. Was I behaving suspiciously? I was a 19 year-old Yankee in 1976, that was suspicious enough. He tried for several minutes to measure the blade in a way that exceeded 5 inches. He failed to find the evidence that he wanted after turning the ruler every conceivable direction and he was forced to release me. The lesson I learned is that the LEO may not measure accurately, so I like to stay a safe margin under the legal limit.

[Donut]

Buy it, use it around the house, oversharpen it a few times and measure it, then when it gets to your safe land, carry it.

The 0.05" you're talking about is 1/20th of an inch. Most things you buy to measure aren't even accurate down to what you're asking for.

[tonijedi]

I think OP's concern is valid. Why risk problems when there's an easy solution?

[Cheddarnut]

The only person that measures things concealed in my pants is me, so its a non issue over here. Not a legal one anyhow.