I Hate Japanese Spydies, Sorry

[jabba359]

I will say, my very first Caly 3 was so gritty I could barely even open it (this was back in 2008, I think). I sent it in to warranty and they sent back a smooth opener. I'm not sure if they just cleaned it out, or if it was swapped.

My second one was the CF/Damascus that I picked up from the factory seconds sale. I have no idea why that was a 2nd, but it seems fine to me.

The HAP40 sprint is my third. It's a little gritty feeling, but now that I know better, I'll give it a good flush with water to see if I can't clean it out.

[bh49]

A Golden made C3.5 was a dream for me since it would get all the sprints the Native does.

I love and share your dream. As much as I in love with my Caly3 ZDP189 (late love). I want Caly with XHP.

[bh49]

I will say, my very first Caly 3 was so gritty I could barely even open it (this was back in 2008, I think). I sent it in to warranty and they sent back a smooth opener. I'm not sure if they just cleaned it out, or if it was swapped.

My second one was the CF/Damascus that I picked up from the factory seconds sale. I have no idea why that was a 2nd, but it seems fine to me.

The HAP40 sprint is my third. It's a little gritty feeling, but now that I know better, I'll give it a good flush with water to see if I can't clean it out.

Currently I own 10 Calys (sorry I miscount before counting one UKPK as Caly :) ). I used to have few more. I didn't feel that any of them had/has griitty action. May be I am not sensitive in this sense. hey, good for me.

[murphjd25]

My Caly3 HAP40 was really gritty, took it apart immediately and washed it out and lubed it up. It is ridiculously smooth now! My Endura Pakkawood is extremely off center but it doesn't bother me, it doesn't rub on anything. Other then those two problems I am very happy with all my Seki and Moki spydies.

[mastiff]

Returning 6 folders would have cost around $30 or more- seems stupid when the fix is a clean workplace and/or an air nozzle at the factory. It comes down to either laziness or complacency. Also remember that my taking them apart when I did voided the warranty on all but the last two because that policy was finally changed. The other countries don't seem to have the problem.

I'm a mechanic, if I did a tune up on your 4 cylinder car and didn't clip on your last wire or coil or didn't change one bad plug would you be okay with that? It's only running on 3 cylinders but it does run, right? I mean, you can fix it yourself? You did say that you're cool with tinkering? Oh, and if you want me to fix it, it will be another $5. Now imagine that I do this every time you bring your car in. Yeah, now you understand.

I don't think my standards are too high. While I was on hiatus I started buying Cold Steel folders, 5 to be exact. Not a single one with gritty actions or sharp anything except the blade. That included a cheaper Broken Skull, priced in between the TiNi Endura and the regular Endura. That's from Taiwan by the way, and comes with G10 and DLC'd CTS-XHP steel. So trying to excuse failings on economy of scale or mass production won't cut it with me.

As to the question of contact of the warranty and repair dept.? Nope. Save the Endura and Caly the rest are gone and the warranties were voided when i disassembled them. I'm not sure how much can be done on a disco'd folder anyways. I brought this up to shine a light on the horrendously poor QC and finish coming out of Japan. Maybe it is only one in ten knives. But think of this, that's 1 in 10 people. Chances are these are first time buyers as these are your entry level folders. My Delica was and if I hadn't wrote it off and tried an U.S. made PM2 I'd have thrown them back into the box and moved on to another brand.

The world is full of people that can't tell the difference between a phillips and a flat-head. Expecting people to just fix factory mistakes isn't a good idea unless you want to bleed or even hemorrhage potential customers. Just reading through threads is a sure identifier that a serious problem exists in Japan. The "just fix it yourself" or "half the fun is taking it apart" crowd miss the point. Yeah, I'll fix it myself but how many others can? How many will get a gritty sharp holed knife and just return it thinking " I can't believe this was recommended to me. This is junk, I'm returning it and trying another brand."? If you think there aren't many people like that then I've got a bridge for sale you'd be interested in.

As I posted at the start, only the Delica was bought on Amazon. The rest were bought at BladeHQ, National Knives, and Knifecenter. All are Certified dealers, not a single auction site to be found among them. Instead of making excuses, just buy one guy an air nozzle and maybe a wooden dowel if a rotary tool or Dremel adds too much to the bottom line. If the hole was supposed to be sharp then why isn't it on every single other Spydie I own?

If I can send my Caly in and they can replace the blade or find me a replacement then I'm game. I'll try to give them a call on Monday. But this business of spending $30 dollars or more over what I consider sheer laziness to send back 6 different knives is downright ignorant. I'm looking forward to the Sliverax like nobody's business and I still love Spyderco. Like I said, Sorry. If I come off mean, know that I'm not trying too. I'd like to give Japan one more chance and maybe that's why I made this thread. Lots of great designs I'd like to try get made there but they lost my trust.

I'll be happy to continue to buy models from every other country that produces knives for Spyderco though. I still believe they make the best knives on the planet, just not the ones that come from Japan. Again, Sorry.

[PaleMoon]

I look at Spyderco factories the same way I look at steels; you've got to settle on a combination of properties that fit your personal needs. No steel can have ultimate toughness, wear resistance, edge stability, corrosion resistance, etc., all at the same time, it's always a compromise. Likewise, it's been my experience that different factories have different mixes of affordability, F&F, designs, materials, construction, etc., and I choose accordingly.

I see no more of a problem with shunning a specific factory than I see a problem with shunning a specific steel when it doesn't fit my needs. For example, I've stopped buying non-stainless steels after moving to a humid tropical country. I've also avoided all models coming out of Moki, no matter how appealing some of them look, after reading up on their issues. Regardless, I don't feel the need to publicly declare my hatred toward tool steels or Moki; I figure I just have different needs in my knives, so I vote with my dollars and I move on. If enough people eventually become dissatisfied with a specific steel/factory and sales drop accordingly, I assume Spyderco will stop offering the product(s) in question (e.g. S60V steel, the Taipei factory, etc.)

As far as Seki goes, they've never disappointed me, in big part due to the low price of their FRN models. I've learned that I can't expect perfection out of a $60-70 folding knife, but I can certainly expect a durable, ergonomic, sharp tool that will serve me well for many, many years. I sure wouldn't pay $100+ for a Delica with better fit & finish. If I'm looking for insane tolerances and flawless execution, I buy a CRK. But CRKs are pricy, look boring, don't fit my hand as well, aren't offered in numerous steel options, etc. Again, it's always a compromise.

[fanglekai]

My brown Endura 4 in VG-10 is just a hair off center but otherwise quite nice. The action is smooth, lockup is solid, unlocking is smooth, the blade came sharp and is easy to touch up. My Stretch in Super Blue (laminated) is also ground a touch off center, but is very smooth, and as a laminated knife I didn't expect a perfect grind. I haven't had any major issues, especially at the prices I paid.

[PayneTrain]

I have more Japanese Spydies than you and less complaints, that number being zero. I suppose I'm supposed to start a "I Love Japanese Spydies" thread because based on my small sample size, they are the best factory on the planet.

I hear you mastiff. It must be extremely frustrating to keep getting unsatisfactory products from a maker, and it's only natural to want to form a correlation and an opinion. But you're most certainly overreacting. Kristi took the time to respond to you in an impressively graceful manner, and you're still stomping your feet and saying "nope, not good enough!" You're only limiting yourself, you're not shining any light on any real problem with the Japanese factories because there is no systemic problem. I've done what you do for work, and now I do what they do and I'm here to tell you that you're looking at this all the wrong way. I hope someday you'll give them an honest chance again, but if not, you're certainly not deterring me from treating myself to some VG-10!

[bearfacedkiller]

Condemning a product without giving a company the chance to make it right is poor form in my opinion.

[mb1]

I've lost track of everything covered so far, but is any of the action perception based on washers vs no washers, like comparing a Caly to a PM2 action? Of course in this case, the lock mechanism would only compound the difference.

A couple thoughts on quality... In general, craftsmanship and quality are increasingly hard to find in today's world. I repeatedly, and I mean CONSTANTLY, find when paying for goods and services, there is often a need to follow up and get things done right that should have been done right the first time. It's sad but it's reality. And it makes me continue to do many things myself that I would be willing to pay someone else to do.

That said, I have been so pleased with Spyderco's quality in general...it's just one of many reasons I will likely be a customer for life. And I appreciate Spyderco's responsiveness when real issues are surfaced. I'm sure this and the other thread will prompt some thought and discussion within.

[NickShabazz]

I'm kind of with you here, Mastiff. The "Japan" Spydies, particularly the "black G10" models in the last few years, seem to have a particularly frustrating combination of poor QC and workmanship, poor materials, and high prices that leave me very cold. Heck, I bought (and instantly returned) a Caly 3 of my own with similar major issues, which *never* should have left a factory. I'm generally pretty disappointed when I see that a potentially exciting new model has been assigned to Black-G10 Japan, because that usually means poor steels (EDIT: relative to what's available at other factories at similar price points), poor build quality, and poor value.

The FRN Seki City models like the Delica and Endura variants tend to be fine, though (I think they're a different factory?). Heck, I love my wooden Delica/Endura!

I understand that leadership changes at factories, and that each factory has its own complications, but at this point, I'm kind of hoping that Spyderco will sunset the Black G10 Japan factory, and consider shifting any new models to Golden or Taichung, so that their quality and value can be more consistent across the board.

[twinboysdad]

The silver lining for me is after *****ing and moaning about the Caly 3.5 being discontinued and how it should move to Golden, I finally broke down and bought a Native 5. It is a great knife and I feel good plunking my money down on sprints of this refined model.

[The Mastiff]

I'm generally pretty disappointed when I see that a potentially exciting new model has been assigned to Black-G10 Japan, because that usually means poor steels, poor build quality, and poor value.

Now we have

poor steels

. Are you talking about VG 10? It's pretty darn far from being a poor steel. In fact without question it is a premium steel known for it's consistency and balanced attributes. I feel like you guys are talking about Bizzaro world Spydercos or counterfeits now because I'm seeing stuff that has no relation to the products I have been buying and using since 1992. Of the over three hundred Spydercos I've owned , plus the hundred or so I sold working gun shows as a knife dealer of which I still have over a hundred total left in my collection. Probably a third to a half are Spyderco Japan models.

joe

[bearfacedkiller]

Joe, VG10 obviously is an inferior steel for table top reviews and it is certainly inferior for disassembly, lubing and reassembly. Don't even get me started on how inferior it is for arm chair flipping. :rolleyes: :D

Jokes aside, I do think calling it a "poor steel" is a stretch.

I do agree that the value is lacking in some of the G10 Japanese Spydies. This has been discussed many times. FRN Stretch2 ZDP for $120 and G10 Stretch2 ZDP for $210 is quite a gap. No denying that. Japanese G10 does have me priced out usually.

Police4 K390 for $174? Not too bad though. Why is it way less than the G10 Stretch2? I don't know. :confused:

[Eli Chaps]

I'm kind of with you here, Mastiff. The "Japan" Spydies, particularly the "black G10" models in the last few years, seem to have a particularly frustrating combination of poor QC and workmanship, poor materials, and high prices that leave me very cold. Heck, I bought (and instantly returned) a Caly 3 of my own with similar major issues, which *never* should have left a factory. I'm generally pretty disappointed when I see that a potentially exciting new model has been assigned to Black-G10 Japan, because that usually means poor steels, poor build quality, and poor value.

The FRN Seki City models like the Delica and Endura variants tend to be fine, though (I think they're a different factory?). Heck, I love my wooden Delica/Endura!

I understand that leadership changes at factories, and that each factory has its own complications, but at this point, I'm kind of hoping that Spyderco will sunset the Black G10 Japan factory, and consider shifting any new models to Golden or Taichung, so that their quality and value can be more consistent across the board.

Inferior steels? How exactly do you define that? What is your yard-marker for such a declaration? Why has the entire internet decided that if you aren't carrying a pocket knife with a HRC of 5000+ then your knife is inferior? I'm so tired of that line of thinking. VG10 is an awesome EDC steel. I'm actually not even much a G10 guy and much prefer FRN. I've bought/owned a mess of Seki City of knives and I freaking love them! Great value on great designs with what I personally consider exceptional EDC materials.

I generally find you entertaining but this just pushed me over the top to unsubscribe. One of the only knife guys I actually subscribed to (I use a different YT name).

My ZDP189 Delica from early this year had a terrible edge on it. It was wavy, uneven, and just terrible. I just shrugged as it was the first in a looooong line of Seki City knives that I'd issue with. I knew I could've sent it in and it would've been made right too. I've bought three more Seki City knives since then and love them all.

I'm with Joe here. Bizzare.

[The Mastiff]

Darby, I've had to go value since I retired and went on a fixed income. I completely understand working from that direction when choosing what and when to buy . It takes planning ahead of time especially when the knife you want is a high demand sprint.

I don't have a problem with people talking about the issues they have with their knives. Overly emotional rants and obvious exaggerations do annoy me though they shouldn't.

Subjective statements posing as objective fact needs to be called out if for no other reason than for the newer members who are here to learn. It does make a difference IMO.

Joe

[sal]

I agree with Joe. It is really our responsibility (at least for Spyderco) to share information, teach and learn. I think that is why most of us come to this particular forum.

sal

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"No one want to look the fool. Everyone does the best they can, and if they knew better, they'd do better".

[SG89]

I've owned 46 Japanese spydies in 8 different steels from 3 different decades. only 1 I found enough fault with to return (sprint baby horn). All 8 of those steels are wonderful and not poor quality by any imagination. Either I have the best luck in the world or Spyderco has superior build quality on Japanese spydies...

[Wrathhog]

I'm generally pretty disappointed when I see that a potentially exciting new model has been assigned to Black-G10 Japan, because that usually means poor steels, poor build quality, and poor value.

Now we have

poor steels

. Are you talking about VG 10? It's pretty darn far from being a poor steel. In fact without question it is a premium steel known for it's consistency and balanced attributes. I feel like you guys are talking about Bizzaro world Spydercos or counterfeits now because I'm seeing stuff that has no relation to the products I have been buying and using since 1992. Of the over three hundred Spydercos I've owned , plus the hundred or so I sold working gun shows as a knife dealer of which I still have over a hundred total left in my collection. Probably a third to a half are Spyderco Japan models.

joe

I'm not a steel snob by any stretch of the imagination, but I can tell you through daily hard use of my knives, I don't consider VG10 a premium steel. It's more than adequate for an edc blade, but it's not premium.

[NickShabazz]

Inferior steels? How exactly do you define that? What is your yard-marker for such a declaration? Why has the entire internet decided that if you aren't carrying a pocket knife with a HRC of 5000+ then your knife is inferior? I'm so tired of that line of thinking. VG10 is an awesome EDC steel. I'm actually not even much a G10 guy and much prefer FRN. I've bought/owned a mess of Seki City of knives and I freaking love them! Great value on great designs with what I personally consider exceptional EDC materials.

I generally find you entertaining but this just pushed me over the top to unsubscribe. One of the only knife guys I actually subscribed to (I use a different YT name).

Sorry to lose you here, Eli! But to respond to everybody, I phrased that poorly, I was missing a "relative to other factories". VG-10 is fine, it's good to go. I say the same thing in my steel video. For many years, it was top-of-the-rock, and only as better has become available is it starting to fall behind. Heck, the knife I recommend more often than anything is the Delica.

But compared to what kinds of steels you're getting for the same price points in Golden and Taichung, VG-10 is a bit behind the curve. $120 at Taichung or Golden gets you S30V in the Rhino or Sage or PM2 series, or S110V in the Manix Lightweight. Heck, Golden does incredible steels in sprints for $150-160. For $150 most everywhere else, the steel world is your Oyster.

But $150+ from Black G10 Japan gets you VG-10. "Fine", but particularly given that the workmanship is lower too, it's a bitter pill to swallow, and so my money usually goes to Taichung or Golden or Italian knives where you can do better all around. So, a better phrasing would be "you're getting poor steels in Japanese Spydercos relative to what you're getting from other factories at the same price points". In 2017, with the plate of options out there, VG-10 is fine, particularly in budget-conscious knives, but by the time you're approaching $200, with the market as competitive as it is, it's just not great, particularly when Spyderco is pushing the steel envelope so regularly everywhere else.

Make a bit more sense? I've edited my original post to clarify this.