Change in Sharpmaker packaged stones

[Tdog]

I've gifted 2 of my 3 children Sharpmakers so they can keep their knives sharp. Was thinking about gifting a couple fishin friends one as well. I find that the white rods get limited use, perhaps a few passes after sharpening. I think many, if not most people would be better served with a coarse rod packaged with the brown medium rod. Many people don't want to spend an extra $50.00 to buy the coarser rods. I wonder if Spyderco might accommodate folks by offering this combination of stones in their packaged kit....204CM? Thanks for considering this.

[bearfacedkiller]

I think selling it with the diamond and brown rods makes a lot of sense but it would raise the price. It would make it a much more functional tool.

I would like to see more grits offered as well. A coarser diamond set of rods would be great.

[Bloke]

I fully agree! :cool:

It would also be nice to have a case to hold any of the extra rods we wish to buy. The tubes are a good idea no doubt but not ideal. Say perhaps a red case dedicated to holding spare rods would compliment an already tidy set up perfectly, at least that's what I reckon. :)

[ronT2]

There definitely needs to be a 205 Sharpmaker with diamond and brown rods.

The first time I pulled a bunch of old kitchen knives out of the drawer for a test run on the Sharpmaker with the brown and white rod it was nothing more than an exercise in futility. If it wasn’t for the folks on this forum saying that the diamond rods were a game changer and other tips, the 204 probably would have wound up back on ebay where I found it.

[Tdog]

If it helped to keep the cost down, perhaps they could use silicon carbide for the coarser stones. For years all I used was a two sided Norton stone, and it always served the purpose.

[dplafoll]

Here's the question that only Sal and Co. could answer: do they sell enough of any of these things to justify the changes? i.e. they make enough to be willing and able to risk changes.
Or, do they sell enough of the SM204 as-is as to justify not changing it? Spyderco isn't one to sit on its laurels and be complacent about products; the idea of CQI is proof of that. But there may be a lot of things (knives) that are just a higher priority than changing a product that may sell a lot as it is.

[bh49]

Agree that sharpmaker with medium and coarse rods would make it more useful tool. I am using my fine rods once in a blue moon. And frankly I forgot when did I use my ultra fine last time. Silicon carbide coarse rods shouldn't cost a lot.

[Sharp Guy]

I'd be in for a set of course silicon carbide rods.

I'm starting to appreciate a more toothy edge and usually only use the medium rods. Like BH49 I don't use the fine rods very often and rarely use the UF rods except when I'm playing around trying to whittle hairs.

[Water Bug]

Actually, I like the Spyderco Tri-Angle Sharpmaker packaged as it is. I get a lot of use with both the Spyderco Brown and White Tri-Angle Stones, and that White Stone puts on a nice finished edge. These two stones meet most of my sharpening needs. And, I put them to good use long before the Spyderco Diamond Stones ever came out. Now, I love the Diamond Stones as they work magic on really dull knives, and I found the Diamond Stones as a nice upgrade/addition to my basic set... and , there you have it... you got to start somewhere and having the basic 204MF system is an outstanding place to start, and once you get the hang of the Sharpmaker then you can invest in courser stones to go with it.

[Evil D]

I think this depends on who the primary market/buyer of the Sharpmaker is. We knife and steel junkies would most likely benefit more from an extra course stone replacing the ultra fine stone, but we also likely deal with far more challenging steels when sharpening. If the average Sharpmaker buyer is using it for their kitchen knives then they may be just fine with the brown rods and those knives don't see near as much heavy reprofiling so a diamond or CBN rod would be wasted on them probably more so than the ultra fine is wasted on a steel junkie. Personally I use my fine and ultra fine stones every time so I don't see them as any less important. If anything it may be better all around if the 3 included rods were diamond/brown/fine and then people can buy the ultra fine rods if they feel they need it.

[vivi]

I never use the browns myself. I use the whites or ultrafines for touch-ups. I touch-up my knives before they get to the point where they stop slicing paper, and I use a microbevel, so whites grind plenty fast for me.

If the edge is so damaged or dull I'd want to use browns, I bust out DMT bench stones. Those grind worlds faster than any grit sharpmaker rod would. I can't believe people repair seriously damaged edges or reprofile with such narrow stones, that's madness IMO. XX DMT will do the work at least 10x as fast. To me that's like mowing a lawn with a 4 inch wide lawn mower.

The only time I use my browns is repairing damaged serrated edges, but even then I find it more efficient to wrap 120 grit sandpaper around a white rod and go to town.

I do like the edge the browns give me on my knives, but they remove steel noticeably faster, which means I have to reset the full bevel more frequently. Touching up my microbevels with the whites I only have to reset the full bevel twice a year at most.

[toomzz]

AFAIK the new doublestuff stone has a coarse diamond plate combined with brown medium ceramics, am I right? (or was it white fine?)

[Sharp Guy]

AFAIK the new doublestuff stone has a coarse diamond plate combined with brown medium ceramics, am I right? (or was it white fine?)

CBN on one side and white on the other.

[bearfacedkiller]

I feel like average joes probably buy this thing and try to tackle what we would call extremely dull edges with it and that is futile without a coarser stone. People come to this forum often with issues with the sharpmaker and the issue is often that their knives are just too dull to reprofile on the brown stones. Sure many of us have bench stones, sandpaper or a guided angle system for our reprofiling but the majority of people do not and are possibly buying this as a sole option. It simply is not a complete sharpening system as is. It is a sharpkeeper, not a sharpmaker as it is IMO.

[ZrowsN1s]

I know that if I buy a sharpmaker, I will have to buy diamond or CBN rods as well. I would like it if I could buy them all together at a lower price.

[JimP]

I feel like average joes probably buy this thing and try to tackle what we would call extremely dull edges with it and that is futile without a coarser stone. People come to this forum often with issues with the sharpmaker and the issue is often that their knives are just too dull to reprofile on the brown stones. Sure many of us have bench stones, sandpaper or a guided angle system for our reprofiling but the majority of people do not and are possibly buying this as a sole option. It simply is not a complete sharpening system as is. It is a sharpkeeper, not a sharpmaker as it is IMO.

I don't even think it's because of extremely dull edges but from my own experience, it's mainly factory edges that are far from uniform side to side, so your just creating a nice bur, or simply too obtuse to hit the Sharpmakers set angles, so they require full re-profiling to get decent future results.

I see the diamond rods as an essential part of my Sharpmaker kit, in fact they are all I bother to use these days, I agree it would be nice to see them added.

[krikun98]

The Sharpmaker is a tool for keeping knives sharp, not for bringing them back from the dead. The diamond rods make a difference, but they are still insufficient for reprofiling - which you'll need for almost every knife, since factory edges are weird and rarely have 15 or 20 dps. Messing an edge up is really easy while doing that, and coarser stones will only lessen the time to notice your mistakes. An uneven grind may be fine at first, but it gets worse later. The brown stones can form a 40 degree bevel on most factory edges, and whites can get it to cut very smoothly, but getting a professional to do a 30 degree regrind and then keeping it sharp would be much better.
This is all coming from personal experience - I've started with the Sharpmaker about four years ago, and now with a guided system and optical control I see how much I messed some knives up. They were sharp, some split hairs, but the edges consisted of a few bevels (you can get that if your hand wobbles a bit) and there were other problems. The first stage of sharpening is better suited for a guided system, the Sharpmaker insures that you won't need it again for a long time.

[Tdog]

The Sharpmaker is a tool for keeping knives sharp, not for bringing them back from the dead. The diamond rods make a difference, but they are still insufficient for reprofiling - which you'll need for almost every knife, since factory edges are weird and rarely have 15 or 20 dps. Messing an edge up is really easy while doing that, and coarser stones will only lessen the time to notice your mistakes. An uneven grind may be fine at first, but it gets worse later. The brown stones can form a 40 degree bevel on most factory edges, and whites can get it to cut very smoothly, but getting a professional to do a 30 degree regrind and then keeping it sharp would be much better.
This is all coming from personal experience - I've started with the Sharpmaker about four years ago, and now with a guided system and optical control I see how much I messed some knives up. They were sharp, some split hairs, but the edges consisted of a few bevels (you can get that if your hand wobbles a bit) and there were other problems. The first stage of sharpening is better suited for a guided system, the Sharpmaker insures that you won't need it again for a long time.

I agree with you that a guided system is much better for re-profiling and maintaining a consistent bevel, especially with the newer, harder steels. I use an Edge Pro for this. Folks that aren't "knife nuts" like many of us on the forum just want something simple, easy to use, that doesn't require too much time. Imo, the Sharpmaker without coarser stones is a much less effective tool for the "average" knife owner/user. In many cases, "normal" knife owners let their knives get too dull before trying to re-sharpen. Guess I just don't like the idea of giving a gift to someone knowing that they will have to spend extra dollars to make it work effectively. Thanks to all for sharing their thoughts on this. :spyder:

[kelpie]

I also agree with much of the above advice. Having a sharpmaker is a great way to learn how to free hand sharpen - paradox?
Freehand I find sometimes I am less than perfect (this is weird as some knives come off Norton really good and others I struggle to get to shaving), but so long as it finishes up looking something like an apex a little work on the sharpmaker and the knife is sharp.

At times in the past I've found freehand sharpening pretty disenchanting where the apex looks right but the more I do the more something ??(ancient family curse maybe, who knows???) stops me reaching sharp". With the Sharpmaker in this situation I do about 5 passes on the brown corners then flats - usually this will shave, then switch to the fine flats for about 15 alternating passes. I have some ultra fine rods and sometimes just to tempt fate I will give about 5 passes on these free hand.

For my use the current set up is perfect

[Rockdog97]

It seems I need to re-profile by VG-10 blade on my new SOG Pent Arc as I can't seem to get this thing sharp, even after 50-plus passes on the coarse stone and 50-plus passes on the fine stone. Any suggestions on getting this blade sharp using the Sharpmaker?