Sal - Is the Military 2 still happening?

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bearfacedkiller
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Re: Sal - Is the Military 2 still happening?

Postby bearfacedkiller » Sat Jun 10, 2017 5:34 am

If I could convert all of my liner locks to backlocks I would.

The only Spydie I have owned with a bad lock was a liner lock (W&R fixed it right up though and it is solid now) and I have had bad liner locks from other makers as well. I trust liner/frame locks less than other locks.
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sal wrote:Knife afi's are pretty far out, steel junky's more so, but "edge junky's" are just nuts. :p
SpyderEdgeForever wrote: Also, do you think a kangaroo would eat a bowl of spagetti with sauce if someone offered it to them?

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Re: Sal - Is the Military 2 still happening?

Postby Scottie3000 » Sat Jun 10, 2017 7:25 am

archangel wrote:I do not own a millie yet because of the liner lock. It is so ordinary, you find it on $5 China knives. :( Plus I never understood why people favour a locking mechanism that puts the unlocking finger into the way of the blade's sharp edge.
You're technically correct. The cheapest knives all seem to have liner lock, but there is a huge difference in quality between a $4 knife-like-object and a well engineered and made liner lock. I have no qualms about the Military lock. It might not have the outright strength of some other designs, but for me, it's one of the easiest locks to use.

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Re: Sal - Is the Military 2 still happening?

Postby Donut » Sat Jun 10, 2017 8:42 am

I just want to test out the stop lock.

Which factory is the least busy? Schedule a stop lock model with them. :)

Unfortunately with that idea, I think an international maker with a new lock could slow things and QC down. Maybe give Sal a 2 week vacation in Italy. Is it too much to ask for K390? :)
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Re: Sal - Is the Military 2 still happening?

Postby jpm2 » Sat Jun 10, 2017 8:55 am

Jazz wrote:
jpm2 wrote:If I could convert all my folders to liner locks, I would.
You sir, are insane. ;) My least favorite, least trusting lock, so I had to say it.
I often use a knife in conditions where I only have one hand to draw/unfold/cut/unlock/fold/put away, and if dropped, will be gone forever.
I maintain the most secure grip during the unlocking and folding operation with a liner lock, than any other type. I have dropped, and sometimes lost other knives due to lack of a secure grip during this operation, but never a liner lock.
So that's my main reason.
The only bad liner locks I've encountered are the crappy gas station types, ones either given to me or someone else owned. If that's all you've experienced, I can understand the lack of trust.
bearfacedkiller wrote:If I could convert all of my liner locks to backlocks I would.

The only Spydie I have owned with a bad lock was a liner lock (W&R fixed it right up though and it is solid now) and I have had bad liner locks from other makers as well. I trust liner/frame locks less than other locks.
I guess any lock can come defective or badly designed. I've had most problems with back locks, excluding spyderco. Also see the above reply.

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Re: Sal - Is the Military 2 still happening?

Postby bearfacedkiller » Sat Jun 10, 2017 9:21 am

There is no right and wrong answer here, just preferences. ;) I carry plenty of liner locks even if they aren't my preference. I carry a Military more than any other knife at the moment and the one Spydie I had with a bad lock was a Military.

Since, you mentioned dropping knives I will add my feeling on that one. I sometimes have butter fingers and have been known to drop a knife on more than one occasion. When I drop a liner/frame/compression lock they usually open on impact. I dropped my K2 this morning on tile and it came open. Luckily there was no damage. I have dropped a Para2 on asphalt and it did come open and it bounced and I lost the tip. The other day I dropped my Police4 in my kitchen and as it was happening I was thinking thank goodness it is a back lock. They never come open when dropped. I know that has nothing to do with dropping them and losing them but the strong bias towards closing is nice when they fall on hard surfaces.
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sal wrote:Knife afi's are pretty far out, steel junky's more so, but "edge junky's" are just nuts. :p
SpyderEdgeForever wrote: Also, do you think a kangaroo would eat a bowl of spagetti with sauce if someone offered it to them?

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Re: Sal - Is the Military 2 still happening?

Postby archangel » Sat Jun 10, 2017 10:24 am

Very good point.
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Re: Sal - Is the Military 2 still happening?

Postby Surfingringo » Sat Jun 10, 2017 11:16 am

Hey jpm2 I probably like backlocks the best for the same reason you like liner locks. I'm opening and closing on a kayak in 100+ feet of water so dropping a folder is expensive. I am able to close my back locks very securely with one hand. I would agree that a linerlock is prettt secure in this regard too.

The only knife I've ever dropped while closing is a compression lock pm2. Doesn't mean I don't like the compression lock, I just think it is slightly more prone to "grip slip" while closing...at least for me. And like Darby said, both times I dropped the pm2 it'll the blade flew open on impact (tile floor both times of course :rolleyes: ).

For the record though, spyderco doesn't make a lock that I don't like. Some I prefer more than others for specific tasks but there's no spyderco that I wouldn't buy and enjoy using because of the lock.

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Re: Sal - Is the Military 2 still happening?

Postby anycal » Sat Jun 10, 2017 12:55 pm

Wouldn't you agree that any knife you can wrist flick open can open on impact. I dropped my Native 5 and had it partiallly open once; 90 deg.
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Re: Sal - Is the Military 2 still happening?

Postby Donut » Sat Jun 10, 2017 1:35 pm

jpm2 wrote: I often use a knife in conditions where I only have one hand to draw/unfold/cut/unlock/fold/put away, and if dropped, will be gone forever.
I maintain the most secure grip during the unlocking and folding operation with a liner lock, than any other type. I have dropped, and sometimes lost other knives due to lack of a secure grip during this operation, but never a liner lock.
So that's my main reason.
You might want to consider using a lanyard and put the lanyard around your wrist. They have some devices that you can put on a lanyard to make sure they stay around your wrist.

I once went on a boat with a VG-10 Dragonfly, I used a lanyard because I didn't want to drop it in the ocean.
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Re: Sal - Is the Military 2 still happening?

Postby jpm2 » Sat Jun 10, 2017 5:29 pm

No doubt lock type is personal preference, mostly.

Anyone who handles one everyday will drop it. Knives with the least detent, like liner
locks, are for sure more likely to open on impact.

For me personally, liner locks require the least amount of hand movement to unlock and close the blade. If the back lock isn't too far from the pivot, like dragonfly, native, earlier delicas and enduras, they are ok too.
The military is one of the very few 4" folders I can securely manipulate, hope they don't do away with its linerlock.

Lanyards are ok when extended use is needed. More often than not tho, I need to draw the knife, position it where it's needed, open it, make a quick cut, unlock and fold it up still in position of the cut, and then pocket it, freeing up that hand. I work from ladders, manlifts, scafolding, above grating, water, sumps, pits, in confined spaces, sometimes in very awkward positions laying on my belly/back/side, straddling pipe or standing on I-beams with harness and lanyards all over me.
Having a knife dangling from my wrist when using that hand for other tasks just wouldn't work in my situation, which I realize is uncommon.

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Re: Sal - Is the Military 2 still happening?

Postby Wanimator » Sat Jun 10, 2017 6:56 pm

I welcome a 4 way carry stop lock Military.

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Re: Sal - Is the Military 2 still happening?

Postby Ryno » Sat Jun 10, 2017 8:25 pm

archangel wrote:I never understood why people favour a locking mechanism that puts the unlocking finger into the way of the blade's sharp edge...
Exactly

If it weren't for the liner lock, I'd have a few millies. Instead, I have none :(
Ryan

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Re: Sal - Is the Military 2 still happening?

Postby jpm2 » Sat Jun 10, 2017 8:50 pm

Ryno wrote:
archangel wrote:I never understood why people favour a locking mechanism that puts the unlocking finger into the way of the blade's sharp edge...
Exactly

If it weren't for the liner lock, I'd have a few millies. Instead, I have none :(
Oh well, I tried to explain it.
Never a cut unlocking and folding them.
I also unlock backlocks with thumb in the path, if they are one hand friendly. Never a cut with them either.

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Re: Sal - Is the Military 2 still happening?

Postby Wanimator » Sat Jun 10, 2017 9:59 pm

Surfingringo wrote:Hey jpm2 I probably like backlocks the best for the same reason you like liner locks. I'm opening and closing on a kayak in 100+ feet of water so dropping a folder is expensive. I am able to close my back locks very securely with one hand. I would agree that a linerlock is prettt secure in this regard too.

The only knife I've ever dropped while closing is a compression lock pm2. Doesn't mean I don't like the compression lock, I just think it is slightly more prone to "grip slip" while closing...at least for me. And like Darby said, both times I dropped the pm2 it'll the blade flew open on impact (tile floor both times of course :rolleyes: ).

For the record though, spyderco doesn't make a lock that I don't like. Some I prefer more than others for specific tasks but there's no spyderco that I wouldn't buy and enjoy using because of the lock.
It's possible to close compression locks in the grips you're describing. I'd imagine you'd take some distaste to the stop lock.

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Re: Sal - Is the Military 2 still happening?

Postby Surfingringo » Sat Jun 10, 2017 10:13 pm

Wanimator wrote:
Surfingringo wrote:Hey jpm2 I probably like backlocks the best for the same reason you like liner locks. I'm opening and closing on a kayak in 100+ feet of water so dropping a folder is expensive. I am able to close my back locks very securely with one hand. I would agree that a linerlock is prettt secure in this regard too.

The only knife I've ever dropped while closing is a compression lock pm2. Doesn't mean I don't like the compression lock, I just think it is slightly more prone to "grip slip" while closing...at least for me. And like Darby said, both times I dropped the pm2 it'll the blade flew open on impact (tile floor both times of course :rolleyes: ).

For the record though, spyderco doesn't make a lock that I don't like. Some I prefer more than others for specific tasks but there's no spyderco that I wouldn't buy and enjoy using because of the lock.
It's possible to close compression locks in the grips you're describing. I'd imagine you'd take some distaste to the stop lock.
You know, I realized that a number of years ago and yet I still never close them that way. Might be that it's just too much fun free dropping the blade on a compression lock. So, clearly, if I drop one on the tile floor again I have no one to blame but myself. :D

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Re: Sal - Is the Military 2 still happening?

Postby Wanimator » Sat Jun 10, 2017 10:36 pm

I've had the Para 2 open in pocket once, stuck my hand in and God must've protected it because I didn't realize it was open until I looked again later.

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Re: Sal - Is the Military 2 still happening?

Postby RanCoWeAla » Sun Jun 11, 2017 6:02 pm

Please make a Military with tip up pocket clip. The liner lock is fine

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Re: Sal - Is the Military 2 still happening?

Postby h8speech » Sun Jun 11, 2017 6:32 pm

anycal wrote:Wouldn't you agree that any knife you can wrist flick open can open on impact. I dropped my Native 5 and had it partiallly open once; 90 deg.
I would say that any folding knife can open on impact. I've got a ZT0452CF, and that knife has a very strong detent. It exclusively opens by flipper (no hole, no thumbstud, no wave) and it's a long heavy blade, so it needs a particularly strong detent. It's strong enough that when I let my girlfriend borrow it, she tried to open it and went "This doesn't work, am I doing something wrong?" It's a stronger detent than I've ever seen on a Spyderco. But I've seen it open on impact half a dozen times.

Increasing detent to the point where it can't open on impact is a fool's errand which would have negative effects on usability.

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Re: Sal - Is the Military 2 still happening?

Postby Doc Dan » Sun Jun 11, 2017 6:34 pm

bearfacedkiller wrote:If I could convert all of my liner locks to backlocks I would.
Ditto. I would add a stop pin, though. Back lock is the better lock.
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Re: Sal - Is the Military 2 still happening?

Postby Doc Dan » Sun Jun 11, 2017 6:35 pm

h8speech wrote:
anycal wrote:Wouldn't you agree that any knife you can wrist flick open can open on impact. I dropped my Native 5 and had it partiallly open once; 90 deg.
I would say that any folding knife can open on impact. I've got a ZT0452CF, and that knife has a very strong detent. It exclusively opens by flipper (no hole, no thumbstud, no wave) and it's a long heavy blade, so it needs a particularly strong detent. It's strong enough that when I let my girlfriend borrow it, she tried to open it and went "This doesn't work, am I doing something wrong?" It's a stronger detent than I've ever seen on a Spyderco. But I've seen it open on impact half a dozen times.

Increasing detent to the point where it can't open on impact is a fool's errand which would have negative effects on usability.
This is one reason, among several, why I do not like nor trust liner/frame locks.
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