Thoughts on locking models as Slipit versions

[B93]

Hello! New member and pleased to be here!

I watched various attempts at creating the GPK (German pen knife) over the years when Sal visited German knife forums. I live in Germany and to see how that unfolded was interesting. People were very torn and couldn't really agree on what they wanted to see in such a model. And when a prototype was sent out, they didn't like it. You can't please everybody, that's for sure.

Anyway. So many of us are huge Spyderco fans, but don't feel comfortable spending this kind of money on something which might very well get confiscated, just so we can get fined or put in court. I think the UKPKs with the stronger backspring are a very nice compromise and I hear the Urban and Squeak are also quite popular. I appreciate how much thought went into the models and then into improving the backspring. I personally find the options to be limited, however. I would like to see some more blade shapes and different sizes, just like we do in regular models. And then I had a thought.

I kept asking myself if it would be possible for Spyderco to make some of their popular models in Slipit versions. Think the Delica, Endura or Manix, for example. I don't think the locks are what ultimately makes the knives. Fans love their blades and their handle ergonomics.

I'd like to hear your take on this.

[soundshaman]

I think the length may be a problem once it's longer then a UKPK.
Would be funny to have a Manix with a small hole like the pingo, 2 handed opening for the German market. That can be carried right? Sadly I think that would be a lot effort for a small market

[B93]

Difficult topic. If you go by the book, then you can carry a two hand locking or a one hand opening slipjoint knife. The officers are hunting down knife owners, however. So what I am saying is that what the actual law is does not help you when you get into trouble. But this is another topic. Blade length restrictions only apply to fixed knives here.

And Sal ran into issues with the Spydehrole trademark. Like you say, that would call for something alike the Pingo or DKPK. Instead, I think some fan favorites reconstructed as Slipits would be quite popular. Because that would not only be for one market (the German, in this case), but for quite a few! All of the UK, for example.

[funghiman]

The difficulty on this topic for Spyderco is how you convert a folding knife from one-handed to two-handed, while still sell it well enough to keep this line in business.

For most other competitors in the knife industry who are widely utilizing thumb studs, that's super simple: remove the studs. And it's said and done.
For Spyderco it's another story. Thumb studs is one way of achieving one-handed opening by adding on material, while spydie hole is another approach by removing material. To complete the conversion into two-handed folders it's basically doing the reverse, and you can't conveniently weld something back onto a Spyderco blade to fill up the hole.

Actually, if you take a look at what LionSteel has came up with their T.R.E. model, that is actually a very intellectual solution, letting the end users decide how they want to deploy their own knives. But again even similar modular design can be much more challenging to perform with the patented Spyderco hole.

So one way or another, to answer to this requirement B93 has given, some new challenges in designing must be overcome.

SpyDK used to be a decent option, but unfortunately it has just been discontinued.

[funghiman]

Instead, I think some fan favorites reconstructed as Slipits would be quite popular. Because that would not only be for one market (the German, in this case), but for quite a few! All of the UK, for example.

Exactly. The more markets a single design can fit in, the more payback it can bring, and the more possible it can survive for long.

[B93]

You are on point. Sal spent a lot of time discussing with the German knife crowd what kind of knife they would expect and what would fit the legal critera. If I remove the thumbstud from one of my folders, it's a legal gray area and always risky. There will be officers who see this as good intent and let it pass, those who know a little bit about knives and would argue that removing the thumbstud changes nothing about the fact that the knife was made to be a one hand opener and others will confiscate any knife, legal to carry or not. The apparent exception here is that you are, by law, allowed to carry a one hand opening locking knife if you need it for your job. Issue being that the cops (and later the courts) decide whether you need X model for Y job at Z time, not you. Until then, your knife is confiscated (and then you will be fined or even be facing jail time). Getting caught with a not-legal-to-carry knife or having an officer decide your perfectly legal knife should be confiscated once is a felony. What if it happens twice? You know how this continues. So the Spyderhole trademark was a real headache in this case, as everyone wanted a locking knife. The UKPKs are already great in design, especially with the choil. I just wish we would have more options to choose from.

Hence me advocating for a bigger Slipit catalogue. As bending over backwards for the limited German market alone (exchange German with Danish or Japanese or anything you would prefer) will never be worth the effort or the cost. This way, they can cover a broader market with their trademark. I believe if there is a company which got what it takes to make a slipjoint workhorse, it's Spyderco.

[The Deacon]

In theory, it should be fairly easy to make a non locking version of any midlock Spyderco. The only question would be how well any of them would sell. Problem being that knife laws vary from country to country. They are also all subject to change, and that change is rarely ever favorable for those wishing to carry a knife.

[sal]

Hi SoundShaman, B93,

Welcome to our forum.

Any design we choose to do will require new engineering and new tooling. When we weigh this against a new design with a larger market, we are challenged. I would consider such a design, but as with the German forum, agreement was difficult. The knives that are supposedly ok in Germany, I found suspect in that I could open them with one hand. Deigning a new model. tooling up and producing the model and then failing to serve the market targeted would be a financial fubar.

sal

[twinboysdad]

How many slipits do you own? There are some dynamite models that Spyderco has created for you guys. I do have empathy for your situation but enjoy the heck out of the ones you can own. I have a Pingo I would gladly allow you to borrow if the distance wasn't absurd

[B93]

Thank you for the welcome, Sal! Like you said, virtually every knife can be opened with one hand or by gravity. Expanding the Slipit market would be, if it were to come down to it, a much more sensible option than making a German market specific knife, in my opinion. I know many people on the forums said that they'd prefer a two handed locking blade, however, they didn't seem to understand the trademark issues. I also think that many of them only had experience (if any) with older UKPK models and didn't experience the backspring on the newer models. When I think of lock restrictions or simply how a locking knife is seen against a nonlocking knife, France, Germany, Denmark, Cyprus, the UK, Luxembourg, Italy and Sweden come to mind. Maybe this is also the case for some States in the US.

Twin. I agree. Very good knives. I don't currently own a UKPK anymore (my experience with the Slipits), as I there just isn't the right model for me. Yet... ?

[twinboysdad]

Thank you for the welcome, Sal! Like you said, virtually every knife can be opened with one hand or by gravity. Expanding the Slipit market would be, if it were to come down to it, a much more sensible option than making a German market specific knife, in my opinion. I know many people on the forums said that they'd prefer a two handed locking blade, however, they didn't seem to understand the trademark issues. I also think that many of them only had experience (if any) with older UKPK models and didn't experience the backspring on the newer models. When I think of lock restrictions or simply how a locking knife is seen against a nonlocking knife, France, Germany, Denmark, Cyprus, the UK, Luxembourg, Italy and Sweden come to mind. Maybe this is also the case for some States in the US.

Twin. I agree. Very good knives. I don't currently own a UKPK anymore (my experience with the Slipits), as I there just isn't the right model for me. Yet... ?

I fully recommend the SpyDK and Pingo as the back springs always seemed tighter than the UKPKs I have handled

[Doc Dan]

What about the Friction Folder?

[funghiman]

I fully recommend the SpyDK and Pingo as the back springs always seemed tighter than the UKPKs I have handled

Yep, and I forgot to mention Roadie, which is a pure European blade on itself by means of blade steel and COO. It's also a slipit but without pocket clip.
Grinding off the flippers of Positron or Mantra 2 as an alternative plan can also achieve similar effect, although that's not recommended for ruining warranty and it highly depends on proper instrument and skill. After that is done essentially you are getting a locking-two-handed folder on bearing, and for either option the overall package is fairly small to be considered uncomfortably offensive.

[The Deacon]

In fairness to Spyderco, for a company that mostly makes "tactical" knives, they've offered quite a variety of non-locking folders in the last 10 years.
Current:
SpyDK
Pingo
Squeak
Friction Folder
PITTS Folder
UKPK
Roadie
Urban
Dog Tag Folder

Out of Production, but at least occasionally available on the secondary market:
G-10 UKPK
Titanium UKPK
G-10 DKPK
G-10 Urban
Terzuola SlipIt
SS Kiwi 3
Stag Kiwi 3
T-Mag

And I've probably missed one or two.

[funghiman]

Wow great job that's a very detailed list Deacon! I can't think of many more to add to it. The Clipi Tools and Byrd Tern maybe? I believe both are still in production.

[TomAiello]

Slip it Dragonfly would be an automatic buy travel knife for me.

[B93]

Agreed, Tom. And a Slipit Delica would be an instant EDC buy for me. And when there's a Delica, there also has to be an Endura.

[funghiman]

Agreed, Tom. And a Slipit Delica would be an instant EDC buy for me. And when there's a Delica, there also has to be an Endura.

You know what actually I just came up with a perfect solution―let's propose Sal and Eric to make a Sage 6 in slip joint, done!

[SpyderEdgeForever]

Welcome to the forum, B93. Well, what about this as a tentative idea? As a German knife enthusiast, are you familiar with the famous "Black Cat" knives, the Mercator K55? What if Spyderco took that basic shape and design, and made a "Spyderized" version, with an opening hole, perhaps FRN handle, and one of the unique steel alloys Spyderco has access to, such as VG10, or S30V or some other steel like LC200N?

Here is a picture for you and others to examine:

They can take that basic design and make it a slip joint, or some other non locking design that is still safe, and use Spyderco FRN and steel and have a hole in the blade.

[vilePossum]

While I do like the idea and would immediately buy a slip joint delica (this knife just has the perfect ergos for me), I don't consider this to be needed. There are so many slippies in spydercos lineup already, it is quite sufficient. Spyderco is also one of the few makers regularly pushing sprint runs of these.
Sure, a slip pm2 or Delica would be nice, but what would you accomplish with them that you can't already?
The urban k390 was great, but not my cup of tea, currently carrying the K390 pingo which is not just German legal, but basically everywhere in Europe.

As for the German knife community/communities (as there is no such thing as one community over here)... they got what they deserved. I stopped caring and participating in the German knife forums years ago.