Question about linerless pivots

[Fred Sanford]

On knives like the Dragonfly 2 and the Native 5 which don't have liners, are the pivots still "D" shaped?

If so, is the FRN just "D" shaped as well? Is the FRN the only thing holding the pivot from spinning in place?

What about models like the Manix 2 lightweight? I notice that it has a very small washer like liner (if you can even call it that). Does that small liner have a "D" shaped hole in it to keep the pivot stationary?

Thanks! Just curious....and always wondering about stuff.

:spyder:

[Jazz]

I'm pretty sure it's FRN holding it in place. I just had my Dfly apart, but I can't remember for sure.

[spyduser0]

The D-bolt/whatever the pivot screw goes into on the Dragonfly can rotate a bit.

[awa54]

Yes the FRN handle scales of D'fly 2, Urban and Pingo have "D" shaped openings in the scales. My coworker decided to loctite his D'fly pivot and spun the pivot out in the hole when he attempted to adjust the pivot later on, so they are not up to anywhere near as much torque as the lined scale pivots are.

[Evil D]

The Manix LW has an "8 shaped" liner, with one hole of the 8 going around the pivot and the other hole going around the tip pin of the back spacer/lock assembly block. Personally I wish this small design would make its way to ALL linerless FRN knives. I have one Dragonfly 2 that the D shape in the FRN has basically stripped and the pivot screw cannot be tightened or loosened because the entire pin and screws spin together. If those little 8 shaped liners where in there, this wouldn't happen. It may not be realistic on knives as small as the Dfly/Lady/Manbugs, but I would love to see them on all larger linerless FRN models. They add mere grams in weight but the gain in pivot strength is huge.

[freebird610]

The Manix LW has an "8 shaped" liner, with one hole of the 8 going around the pivot and the other hole going around the tip pin of the back spacer/lock assembly block. Personally I wish this small design would make its way to ALL linerless FRN knives. I have one Dragonfly 2 that the D shape in the FRN has basically stripped and the pivot screw cannot be tightened or loosened because the entire pin and screws spin together. If those little 8 shaped liners where in there, this wouldn't happen. It may not be realistic on knives as small as the Dfly/Lady/Manbugs, but I would love to see them on all larger linerless FRN models. They add mere grams in weight but the gain in pivot strength is huge.

This^

[Fred Sanford]

Yes the FRN handle scales of D'fly 2, Urban and Pingo have "D" shaped openings in the scales. My coworker decided to loctite his D'fly pivot and spun the pivot out in the hole when he attempted to adjust the pivot later on, so they are not up to anywhere near as much torque as the lined scale pivots are.

Thanks for the info. Good to know.

The Manix LW has an "8 shaped" liner, with one hole of the 8 going around the pivot and the other hole going around the tip pin of the back spacer/lock assembly block. Personally I wish this small design would make its way to ALL linerless FRN knives. I have one Dragonfly 2 that the D shape in the FRN has basically stripped and the pivot screw cannot be tightened or loosened because the entire pin and screws spin together. If those little 8 shaped liners where in there, this wouldn't happen. It may not be realistic on knives as small as the Dfly/Lady/Manbugs, but I would love to see them on all larger linerless FRN models. They add mere grams in weight but the gain in pivot strength is huge.

Good to know. I completely agree. I have seen that 8 shaped liner in pictures and I agree that it would be awesome to see that in all linerless knives.

[phillipsted]

The "D" shaped liners are very difficult to reproduce when making aftermarket scales for these FRN knives. (The internal spacers and standoffs also present their own challenges to replicate) I was able to do it with some very delicate chisel work on one set of wood scales - but gave up after that. When I assemble a set of wood replacements for an FRN Spydie - I cheat. I take a small dowel and some CA glue and glue the dowel to the smooth head of the D-bolt. This allows me to keep the D-bolt from turning while tightening the screw. Once everything is snugged up, the dowel and glue pops right off.

TedP

[SpyderNut]

The "D" shaped liners are very difficult to reproduce when making aftermarket scales for these FRN knives. (The internal spacers and standoffs also present their own challenges to replicate) I was able to do it with some very delicate chisel work on one set of wood scales - but gave up after that. When I assemble a set of wood replacements for an FRN Spydie - I cheat. I take a small dowel and some CA glue and glue the dowel to the smooth head of the D-bolt. This allows me to keep the D-bolt from turning while tightening the screw. Once everything is snugged up, the dowel and glue pops right off.

TedP

That is an excellent tip, Ted. I will have to remember that one.

Good to see you back! :)

[awa54]

The Manix LW has an "8 shaped" liner, with one hole of the 8 going around the pivot and the other hole going around the tip pin of the back spacer/lock assembly block. Personally I wish this small design would make its way to ALL linerless FRN knives. I have one Dragonfly 2 that the D shape in the FRN has basically stripped and the pivot screw cannot be tightened or loosened because the entire pin and screws spin together. If those little 8 shaped liners where in there, this wouldn't happen. It may not be realistic on knives as small as the Dfly/Lady/Manbugs, but I would love to see them on all larger linerless FRN models. They add mere grams in weight but the gain in pivot strength is huge.

Have you tried pressing your stripped D'fly down hard on a grippy substance to immobilize the spinning pivot? Inner tube rubber or something similar can sometimes give enough grip to do the trick, pressing down on the pivot screw with your torx driver firmly as well can help to get things started.

[Evil D]

The Manix LW has an "8 shaped" liner, with one hole of the 8 going around the pivot and the other hole going around the tip pin of the back spacer/lock assembly block. Personally I wish this small design would make its way to ALL linerless FRN knives. I have one Dragonfly 2 that the D shape in the FRN has basically stripped and the pivot screw cannot be tightened or loosened because the entire pin and screws spin together. If those little 8 shaped liners where in there, this wouldn't happen. It may not be realistic on knives as small as the Dfly/Lady/Manbugs, but I would love to see them on all larger linerless FRN models. They add mere grams in weight but the gain in pivot strength is huge.

Have you tried pressing your stripped D'fly down hard on a grippy substance to immobilize the spinning pivot? Inner tube rubber or something similar can sometimes give enough grip to do the trick, pressing down on the pivot screw with your torx driver firmly as well can help to get things started.

Haven't tried anything more than just bare hand. I'm not sure what I'd do if I did get it loosened, the FRN is pretty much useless if it can't hold the pivot in place. I guess I could epoxy it in or something. It's a good candidate for a G10 handle mod.

[DougC-3]

Very interesting info, guys. Thanks for sharing.

[awa54]

The Manix LW has an "8 shaped" liner, with one hole of the 8 going around the pivot and the other hole going around the tip pin of the back spacer/lock assembly block. Personally I wish this small design would make its way to ALL linerless FRN knives. I have one Dragonfly 2 that the D shape in the FRN has basically stripped and the pivot screw cannot be tightened or loosened because the entire pin and screws spin together. If those little 8 shaped liners where in there, this wouldn't happen. It may not be realistic on knives as small as the Dfly/Lady/Manbugs, but I would love to see them on all larger linerless FRN models. They add mere grams in weight but the gain in pivot strength is huge.

Have you tried pressing your stripped D'fly down hard on a grippy substance to immobilize the spinning pivot? Inner tube rubber or something similar can sometimes give enough grip to do the trick, pressing down on the pivot screw with your torx driver firmly as well can help to get things started.

Haven't tried anything more than just bare hand. I'm not sure what I'd do if I did get it loosened, the FRN is pretty much useless if it can't hold the pivot in place. I guess I could epoxy it in or something. It's a good candidate for a G10 handle mod.

Yeah, as long as the pivot tension is OK, it's not like taking it apart has any purpose, but if you eventually decide to disassemble for cleaning or a handle mod that technique may do the trick. Once it's apart you could probably cut a slot in the far side of the pivot so that a straight blade screwdriver would work "next time".

[wrdwrght]

I'm bumping this thread because the troubling things it discusses are starting to appear in my new K390 Urban.

I was starting to get lateral movement so I gently tightened the pivot to remove the movement.

Although successful, I lost my centering. So, in trying to get it back, I sensed the backside of the Chicago screw was turning as I turned the torx back and forth. Have yet to get the blade centered...

Took a careful look at the Shabazz disassembly (thanks, Nick) to see the flat side of the pivot and the corresponding flat side in the FRN pivot hole.

I understand this correspondence may have some play before the pivot's flat side finds resistance from the flat in the pivot hole.

Has anyone actually stripped their pivot hole with just a gentle turning of the screw?

Seems to me the pivot hole's resistance ought to be robust if it can't offer a tight fit.

Has the mothership actually fixed yours?