Me...The Ouroboros...And Others...

[Eli Chaps]

Hello All,

I'm pretty new around here so let me start with the obligatory but sincere thank you for all the knowledge, passion, and entertainment you folks deliver around what has long been my favorite knife brand. I also very much appreciate Spyderco hosting the forum. I've been part of manufacture forums of other types before and all too often, many of them disappear for various reasons so this is a pretty fantastic thing.

Please bare with me...

Like a gillion other folks, I'm a huge fan of the Delica. By extension, I also think the Dragonfly and Endura are fantastic to fit those niches or folks where a smaller or larger knife is preferred. While I have been a fan of sharp things for as long as I can remember and have been sharpening knives almost as long, I am not a "collector" and until I landed on my first Delica, my strongest brand loyality was probably to Buck but even that wasn't resolute. As much as I love knives, they have always been tools for me. Once I got that Delica I found myself just buying more Delicas. :) I would drool over other knives or be intrigued by different designs but I always find myself comparing them to the Delica. I'm more or less ruined on thumb studs for regular carry now and I'm always comparing cost and function to that sweet gem of an EDC blade.

I've given various Spyderco models as gifts and have loved them all (yes I often carry them before gifting them) but still came back to that trusted old friend. I have a Manix 2LW that is ergonomically fantastic and a truly great knife design. It bounced the Delica out of my pocket for several months. In the end, I found the larger width and the BD1 steel were just enough to make me once again slip a Delica back in my pocket (this time in the awesome Zome green!).

A few weeks ago my wife asked me if I could have any Spyderco knife, what would it be? I pondered that for a couple days. Tall question. I adore everything about the "absurdity" of the Rubicon. Big and thick and beautiful! Others were considered but I finally said the Sage 5. I just loved everything about it. But, I always compare knives to the Delica and I quite quickly told her that I couldn't justify spending that kind of money on one as I just didn't think it was that much better than the knife that had served me so well for so long. But, much to my pleasant surprise, she surprised me and got me the knife. I thought she might be fishing for a future birthday or Christmas gift but she got it for me just cuz. She said I've been so stressed out about work and such lately that I deserved it.

What a fantastic knife! Obviously, you all don't need to hear my thoughts on it as I'm sure it's all been covered but it really is a wonderful design. Now, I never would have bought it for myself because that's like two Delicas! But I sure am glad she did!!! :D

That said, I was so close to saying the Ouroboros instead of the Sage. When I first saw it I thought it was awesome. I don't remember if it was a SHOT show video or the little card stack that came with the catalog but it just looked so fantastic and lit up all my knife fires. Then it dropped and I saw the price. It was close to three Delicas...

This comparison to how many Delicas a knife costs is wholly illogical I know. I can only carry one of them but it is just sort of how I look at things.

I'm a fan of VG10 so that really wasn't a big issue for me, and I know it is a collaboration knife so I expected it to be on what I consider the upper end but when I saw $170, it just deflated me. Comparatively speaking, I don't think the price is out of line. I'm not faulting anyone for what it is going for. The Roc for example has similar materials and price. But, when given the chance to pick my Spydie blade and suspected it might at some point be a gift, why didn't I pick this knife that so intrigued me? We're basically talking about a ~$40 difference between the Ouroboros and the Sage 5.

I've been thinking about that a lot the past few days. For me, when you break the $100 threshold, you're into something of a new league, especially for an EDC folder. I know to many that is probably laughable but again, I always ask myself, is that price really worth more than what the Delica brings? But then in my simple mind, there's another threshold at the $150 mark and again at $200+. For whatever reason, when I see knives over $200 I see them as luxury items. I know it is easy to argue quality and such but I just mean for me, a $200+ knife isn't going to cut my leftover pork chop or open boxes and better than my $65 Delica. I don't hard use my EDC folders any more, prefer fixed blades for more outdoor activities, and use kitchen cutlery for those tasks.

I know it likely makes no sense but I feel like that $150-200 world is an undesirable place to live. It's just a fifty buck window but for whatever illogical reason, I tend to see it as weird price range. Below $150 you're in the in the "okay I can live that cuz it is so practical" kind of area and above $200 you're in the "this is a splurge gift to myself that I just want" kind of area. But between there, again for no logical reason, sort of makes you cringe.

At any rate, that's how I feel and I wonder if others can kind of relate? The kids are grown and I seem to be transitioning into a fat old man so maybe "collecting" more knives will start becoming more of a habit and none of this will matter. :)

[delphidoc]

Yah, in my opinion the Ouroboros price is a little steep for what you get. I absolutely love my Kiwi 4. When I saw the pre-release info about the Ouroboros I thought I was going to like it even more than the Kiwi. When I finally got one it's OK but IMO not a good as the Kiwi. I'm OK with that though. I do more collecting than actual using, given my job and lifestyle. If I had never bought the Ouroboros it would have bugged me until I had bought one. Worthwhile experiment, but not as good of an outcome as I had hoped. If it had cost less I would feel better about it and I'll probably be more sure of what I'm getting the next time I "experiment" with a knife in that price range. Speaking of Kiwi 4, if you'll excuse me I've gotta go- I need to leave and go order another one. They're disco'd, you know.

[delphidoc]

By the way, Bark River Knives has some models I would love to have. They're priced too high for the most part for me to seriously consider buying one, though. I'd never get my money's worth out of them, but I can appreciate how nice and attractive they are.

[Nate]

Welcome!

Interesting post, I can relate. For me, it took a relatively long time to climb up the price ladder on folders to get to the point where I felt comfortable buying in the $100+ range. $100-$150 is my general comfort range these days. The only folder I still have that cost more than $150-ish is my Caly 3.5 in Super Blue that I scored NIB off the bladeforums exchange a couple of years ago for $175. No regrets there! :D

Value is of course very subjective. Some folks might balk at anything over $50 while others aren't interested in anything under $500 lol. There's no "wrong" answer I guess.

As an example of how fickle I can be, I was really interested when I first heard the Kiwi 4 was coming, but then passed at the MAP price of $120. I think I understand why they were priced where they were, but it just didn't feel like a great value when they essentially cost the same as a PM2 and $20 more than a Chaparral... Then they get discontinued and when I saw they could be had for a little over $80 I couldn't buy one fast enough, haha. I guess if I had known in advance how much I'd really like it, the extra $40 wouldn't have been a big deal and I could have enjoyed it a lot sooner.

I almost hate to say it, but the Ouroboros is pretty much the same deal for me too. It looks like a fantastic, unique design, but $175 or whatever is just too steep for whatever weird cost/benefit analysis that runs in my head whenever I consider my next purchase. Even after what happened with the Kiwi, I still find myself thinking "$115-$125: yes. $175: no way." I know $50 or so isn't a big deal at the end of the day, but the maths just don't work out in my brain lol.

...of course, I guess it's also gotten a lot easier for me to sit back and be patient and choosey now that I've amassed a decent collection that includes most of the "must have" stuff out there that I really wanted.

[sal]

Hi Eli,

Thanx for the post and welcome to our forum. Nice topic.

Great wife!

sal

[vivi]

I carry a 200$ Spyderco. Blade scratched up and everything. At some point you just gotta ask yourself, is 50$ more really that much for something I could end up carrying for a decade?

I know where you're coming from. The Pacific Salt to me is in many ways the holy grail of knives. Large but light, 100% rust proof, ergonomic, smooth action, stays closed well yet opens very easily. When they're so practical, it can be difficult justifying dropping 200$ on a folder when my 75$ Salt would work just fine.

Maybe that's the point where you have to admit this hobby isnt 100% practical. At least for me it isn't. While the Szabo folder is my favorite knife Spyderco makes, the Pacific Salt can do everything it can do when it comes to my uses. Sure the Szabo chops a little better, is more visually interesting and the extra blade length can come in handy, but my Pacific Salts never let me down.

Part of it is how it makes me feel I suppose. I carry my knives as tools, never considered myself much of a collector since I only have users...but there's something I feel when I use my Szabo or well seasoned Police 3 that my Pacific Salt doesn't do for me. Even though I love how light it is, something about linerless FRN construction feels uninspiring. Not really sure how to put it into words.

I used the Cara Cara as my yard stick for quite a while. Full sized, rugged G10 folder with amazing ergonomics for 25$. Passed up on the foliage green Manix because "I could buy five or six Cara Caras for that price!" Still kick myself for passing that one up

[Mikael Andersson]

I think that S110V for about $150 is a good deal... VG10 for the same price not so much.

[SG89]

I like your way of pricing things by using Delicas. I'm going to have borrow that :p

[Nate]

Haha, forgot to mention it in my earlier post but when I first started getting into knives as more than just pure utility I measured stuff in terms of how many Svörd Peasants I could buy, but that got silly very fast. :p

[OakTree]

Great post.
I own a Delica 4 (FRN), a Dragonfly 2 (FRN), a Manbug (FRN), and a Bug (Stainless).
I bought the Bug first at about $6 CAD. I bought three and gave away two as gifts to coworkers.
Then I bought the Manbug. I can't remember what I paid but I remember thinking it was expensive for such a small knife ($50-$60 CAD).
The Delica was my most expensive purchase at approx. $90 CAD. For many months I just admired it and played with it but didn't use it. At some point I also bought the Dragonfly. I started carrying and using the Delica and Dragonfly all the time and I love them.
Whenever I use my knife I get a sense of satisfaction.
I enjoy and admire mechanical things and I'm constantly looking at Spyderco's lineup. I am still very attracted to the BM 940-2 but at $220 CAD, and with their terrible QC, I managed to resist the urge to purchase it.

The truth is that I have very little justification for purchasing another knife for edc. I don't go camping and wherever I find myself needing to cut something, I always have a tool available. If I'm working in the garden I have garden tools. If I'm working in my garage I have 20 blades, shears, wire cutters, etc.
I love having a knife on me and I look for every opportunity to cut something but I think the Delica is perfect for my needs. I wish I needed to to use my knife more.

What I would enjoy very much is the opportunity to customize my Delica and Dragonfly. I started making wooden scales for the Dragonfly but I'm having difficulty. I'm going to try with the Delica and see how it goes.

[Evil D]

Everyone has their value benchmark. If you play that mind game with yourself you can talk yourself into or out of anything...

"Gosh I really like the Delica but for $70 I could also buy 5 Opinel No. 9's"

"Gosh I really like the Sebenza but for $410 I could almost buy 3 Delica Titanium/Damascus"

And so on and so on.

[OakTree]

Everyone has their value benchmark. If you play that mind game with yourself you can talk yourself into or out of anything...

"Gosh I really like the Delica but for $70 I could also buy 5 Opinel No. 9's"

"Gosh I really like the Sebenza but for $410 I could almost buy 3 Delica Titanium/Damascus"

And so on and so on.

Anybody who can be talked out of buying a Delica, doesn't deserve a Delica.

[JRinFL]

Funny you should post this. For many years I have been thinking on and off that,if I'm honest with myself, all I really need is a Delica. It just works for me in just about every roll I have for knife.
So, I don't find your Delica benchmark out of the ordinary at all. Good post.

[Holland]

Well said, this is how I talk myself out of buying a CRK again whenever I get the urge.

"Gosh I really like the Sebenza but for $410 I could almost buy 410, $1 gas station knives that hold an edge longer"

[Eli Chaps]

Thank you for the welcome all.

Evil D you're right. It is in many respects a fluid, psychological thing. Many times I have said to myself and others, "is $50 worth years of happiness"? The scale can creep up or down.

[RLDubbya]

Welcome to the forum, Eli.

I think, at the end of the day, we all have to justify our actions to only ourselves. If you can do that, honestly and without lying to yourself about anything, then you are fine.

I'm spending more money on knives now than in some sense I should. I'm certainly purchasing more knives than I NEED for how I use them. However, I am at a point in my life where I have just rediscovered the art and beauty of the knife, after being largely away from them since about 1974 (except for the purchase of an Econo in 1992, and an Endura in 1999-2000).

Since March '16, I've lost a lot in my life: I've lost my career, I've lost most of my money, I've lost my vehicles, I am going to lose my house, I've lost my training and competition as a strongman; there's more, but I think you get the idea...when last fall rolled around, I realized that my life was being defined more and more by loss, and that I had to change this.

I thought back to simpler time, and how I used to enjoy knives, and decided that I needed to be involved with the knife world again.

That has proven, for me, to be a most excellent decision. If nothing else, on those days when I'm expecting a new knife to be delivered, I have a reason to drag myself out of bed; I check the carrier site, and I know that by a certain the knife will arrive. For those few hours, I'm not thinking about everything that I've lost. I'm also putting together a raffle to benefit cancer research, featuring....KNIVES...as the main prizes.

In my case, the decision to get involved with the knife community, to purchase more knives, demonstrates the classic idea of "the good outweighs the bad." There are, over the past 12-18 months, many events which have been extraordinarily negative in my life. To find something positive, something that has helped me grow and recapture some sense of purpose and identity, is truly extraordinary and worth the price of admission.

[SpyderNut]

Welcome, Eli. Nice to have you on board. :)

[Eli Chaps]

Welcome to the forum, Eli.

I think, at the end of the day, we all have to justify our actions to only ourselves. If you can do that, honestly and without lying to yourself about anything, then you are fine.

I'm spending more money on knives now than in some sense I should. I'm certainly purchasing more knives than I NEED for how I use them. However, I am at a point in my life where I have just rediscovered the art and beauty of the knife, after being largely away from them since about 1974 (except for the purchase of an Econo in 1992, and an Endura in 1999-2000).

Since March '16, I've lost a lot in my life: I've lost my career, I've lost most of my money, I've lost my vehicles, I am going to lose my house, I've lost my training and competition as a strongman; there's more, but I think you get the idea...when last fall rolled around, I realized that my life was being defined more and more by loss, and that I had to change this.

I thought back to simpler time, and how I used to enjoy knives, and decided that I needed to be involved with the knife world again.

That has proven, for me, to be a most excellent decision. If nothing else, on those days when I'm expecting a new knife to be delivered, I have a reason to drag myself out of bed; I check the carrier site, and I know that by a certain the knife will arrive. For those few hours, I'm not thinking about everything that I've lost. I'm also putting together a raffle to benefit cancer research, featuring....KNIVES...as the main prizes.

In my case, the decision to get involved with the knife community, to purchase more knives, demonstrates the classic idea of "the good outweighs the bad." There are, over the past 12-18 months, many events which have been extraordinarily negative in my life. To find something positive, something that has helped me grow and recapture some sense of purpose and identity, is truly extraordinary and worth the price of admission.

Be well. One day at a time!

[anagarika]

Eli,

Welcome & thank you for the inspirational question/posts.

RLDubya,

Take care, being honest with oneself is important, sometimes days seem to be long indeed.

I'm also going through life changes, but to stay on topic, I started with Resilience and last one I got was M2 S110V G10, though Endura is the main theme. So I haven't gone over 150$ mark. It'll be a while until next one, but I can focus to enjoy what I have.