An observation regarding H1

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tangent
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Re: An observation regarding H1

Postby tangent » Mon Jan 02, 2017 4:19 pm

harronek wrote:I've only ever owned one H1 Spyderco and I lost it while traveling in New Zealand .
I didn't cry one tear for that knife and will not ever buy another .
Everyone's needs are different and even though I live near the coast on a tropical latitude where humidity and temperature means sweat and moisture is a constant environmental reality rust on my Spydercos isn't a problem if basic maintenance is used occasionally .
If I was bobbing up and down in a salt water environment in a Kayak like Surfingringo does then my attitude probably would be different I'm sure .
Most of the pictures of H1 knives I see posted here ( Surfingringo and a couple of others are exceptions ) and on other forums do not appear to frequent truly corrosive environments that would warrant H1 . I continuously think when I see those pics " why would you use a lesser performing steel when there is no reason to "
As far as I can tell the only area where H1 outperforms the majority of other blade steels is corrosion resistance . Corrosion would have to be at the top of the list of problems to be encountered for me to put up with the other deficiencies .
I'm not trying to be rude or argumentative and if it comes across as such then I apologize , but H1 in my experience is embarrassingly lacking in it's blade suitability properties .
I'm also a little dubious about the work hardening concept , in normal blade use and sharpening I can't see how enough heat and force would be created to basically change the molecular structure of the steel , which is what is being suggested . I am happy to be proven wrong , but my brain at the moment resists that concept .
Lc200n on the other hand does sound promising and I may have to give it a try .

Ken
I agree with everything you just said as long as we are discussing PLAIN EDGE H1. In serrated edge, it is as good or better than anything/everything else...AND...is 100% corrosion resistant.

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Surfingringo
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Re: An observation regarding H1

Postby Surfingringo » Mon Jan 02, 2017 4:32 pm

harronek wrote:I've only ever owned one H1 Spyderco and I lost it while traveling in New Zealand .
I didn't cry one tear for that knife and will not ever buy another .
Everyone's needs are different and even though I live near the coast on a tropical latitude where humidity and temperature means sweat and moisture is a constant environmental reality rust on my Spydercos isn't a problem if basic maintenance is used occasionally .
If I was bobbing up and down in a salt water environment in a Kayak like Surfingringo does then my attitude probably would be different I'm sure .
Most of the pictures of H1 knives I see posted here ( Surfingringo and a couple of others are exceptions ) and on other forums do not appear to frequent truly corrosive environments that would warrant H1 . I continuously think when I see those pics " why would you use a lesser performing steel when there is no reason to "
As far as I can tell the only area where H1 outperforms the majority of other blade steels is corrosion resistance . Corrosion would have to be at the top of the list of problems to be encountered for me to put up with the other deficiencies .
I'm not trying to be rude or argumentative and if it comes across as such then I apologize , but H1 in my experience is embarrassingly lacking in it's blade suitability properties .
I'm also a little dubious about the work hardening concept , in normal blade use and sharpening I can't see how enough heat and force would be created to basically change the molecular structure of the steel , which is what is being suggested . I am happy to be proven wrong , but my brain at the moment resists that concept .
Lc200n on the other hand does sound promising and I may have to give it a try .

Ken
Hey Ken, my feelings about H1 are much the same as yours. I love the steel, but I love it because my environment requires it. I simply choose to use it only in its serrated form which performs at least as well as other steels with serrations, and better than many. If I didn't need corrosion resistance as a primary blade steel property I would likely not be such a fan of H1. Now lc200n on the other hand does a lot of what I like a steel to do. Sharpens up easily, takes a very sharp and VERY aggressive edge, shows good toughness and has edge retention that is more than adequate for my uses. Unlike H1, I would happily buy a folder or fixed blade in lc200n even if I had no intention of ever using it in a corrosive environment.

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SpyderEdgeForever
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Re: An observation regarding H1

Postby SpyderEdgeForever » Mon Jan 02, 2017 4:53 pm

Here is my question then, SurfGringo, and others: Once things get rolling and lc200n becomes more widely used on Spyderco knives, or for Salt type knives, is it possible that Lc200N may actually REPLACE H1 altogether, or, is that not likely? IF lc200N has the corrosion-resistance of H1, but, in addition to that, gives the edge-holding and other desired properties that H1 presently lacks, could lc200N being that it can do all that H1 does, plus more, simply replace it, or, not likely?

Another reason I was considering, and correct me if I am wrong on this, please: Is it still true that the Japanese mills will not sell prefabricated rolls or bars or sheets of H1...they have to finish the blades in their factories, or, has that changed? I would think the ability to purchase the steel in bulk and then form it into knife blades and parts would be a big motivating factor for future use of it in a wider range of knives.

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cabfrank
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Re: An observation regarding H1

Postby cabfrank » Mon Jan 02, 2017 4:56 pm

I think I read somewhere that H1 would not be going away. Many think of it as a true super steel in SE.

vivi
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Re: An observation regarding H1

Postby vivi » Mon Jan 02, 2017 4:58 pm

So those of you that are unhappy with H1's plain edged performance, have you tried an aggressive reprofiling like in this photo?

That was the original intention of this thread, observing changes in H1 performance from factory edge to a thinner after market edge I feel like that focus is being lost.

I know many folks aren't happy with the out of box performance of the steel. In fact I'm one of those people.

I'm curious about how people feel after grinding off the factory bevel completely and replacing it with a thinner one. All of my H1 PE knives showed dramatic improvement in edge holding, sharpness and ease of sharpening after doing so. I was hoping others could share their experience after having done the same, rather than sharing their experiences with the factory edge profiles.

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I was not happy with my Ark's blade from the factory. It didn't get as sharp as my other H1 knives and it didn't hold an edge well. After working on the edge some its able to whittle free hanging hairs and the edge holding has showed dramatic improvement. I've been testing it out on cardboard boxes and its vastly superior to how it performed for me when new.

Other steels for me cut better after reprofiling the blade, as in it requires less lbs of force to cut through thick materials. But they sharpen up just fine and show the same level of edge retention more or less with the factory edge VS my thinner edge. H1 seems unique in that sharpness and edge holding improve after reprofiling, which is not something I have noticed with any other steel I have tried. (VG10, S30V, S60V, S90V, BG42, CPMD2, D2, 1095, 440C, 8Cr13MoV, cts204p, 154CM, Ti, ATS55, 12C27, S7 and a few others I'm sure I'm forgetting)

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On a side note, my love for H1 came from my ability to rust out any other steel on the market within a day. When I bought my first Pacific Salt I was working an outdoor manual labor job in the middle of the summer. My sweat would cause corrosion on any knife I tried, and I needed a knife with me for my job. Even stainless steels known for excellent corrosion resistance such as VG10 and the 420 series would have rust spots after a single shift. For my uses lack of edge holding is easier to compensate for than lack of corrosion resistance. A single 3"x5" sheet of 1000 grit sandpaper in my wallet means my knife will never go dull in the field, but countering the effects of 10 hours exposure to sweat is more difficult for me to remedy. Its less work for me to touch up an edge (Especially something easy to sharpen like H1) than it is to take apart a knife and polish rust off the steel liners, backspacer etc., like I've done with my Police 3 numerous times.

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Fred Sanford
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Re: An observation regarding H1

Postby Fred Sanford » Tue Jan 03, 2017 10:35 am

Vivi wrote:So those of you that are unhappy with H1's plain edged performance, have you tried an aggressive reprofiling like in this photo?

That was the original intention of this thread, observing changes in H1 performance from factory edge to a thinner after market edge I feel like that focus is being lost.

I know many folks aren't happy with the out of box performance of the steel. In fact I'm one of those people.

I'm curious about how people feel after grinding off the factory bevel completely and replacing it with a thinner one.
Yep. :)

I did my own little test back in 2008 with a Salt 1 and found H1 to chip at a lower angle. See the pics below. I can't remember what angle I did but I think it was around 17DPS.

Found my old thread....if anyone is interested and I updated the pic links.
//forum.spyderco.com/viewto ... 322#p46232


Funny thing too Vivi, you posted in the original thread back in 2008. :) Good times.


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JD Spydo
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Re: An observation regarding H1

Postby JD Spydo » Tue Jan 03, 2017 1:19 pm

I know exactly what you're saying "Vivi" and I couldn't agree with you more. The only plain edged, H-1 Salt knife I still have is my PE Yellow handled TASMAN. And I'm thinking of sending it in to one of those guys who does custom serrations. I do believe that the Spyderedge is where H-1 blade steel really is meant for. And that's a strange anomaly too>> but H-1 isn't the only steel I've encountered that performed great in Spyderedge but not so well in plain edge.

GIN-1 and AUS-8 both also come to mind as being good Spyderedged blade steels. It was actually Benchmade was the one to hit the market with H-1 way back in 2002 or thereabout with their "100SH20" model. But they didn't make that knife in H-1 very long at all>> they quickly started using X15-TN stainless on that model>> and it wasn't long after that when Spyderco introduced the H-1 Salt Series. But the SPYDEREDGE is what that steel is truly meant for IMO.

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Lord vader
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Re: An observation regarding H1

Postby Lord vader » Tue Jan 03, 2017 7:59 pm

Hey JD Spydo, I have to agree, the spyderedge does outperform plain edge. I have to re sharpen my plain edge a lot more often than the spyderedge.

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Re: An observation regarding H1

Postby ThePeacent » Wed Jan 04, 2017 6:21 am

It's obvious that SE H1 > PE H1, and that PE LC200N > PE H1,

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but what about PE LC200N vs SE LC200N?
Are serrated edges better in H1 or in LC200N? Is there a substantial difference between LC200N in PE and in SE just like there is with H1?

I don't recall having answers to those yet. Thanks guys,
and awesome thread Vivi ;)

freebird610
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Re: An observation regarding H1

Postby freebird610 » Wed Jan 04, 2017 11:36 am

Well from my understanding heat has nothing to do with this steel at all as it is not heat treated like other steels. The work hardening on the other hand is how it is hardened. I haven't used mine enough to get experience this phenomenon yet myself.


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