Opinions on .380 for my wife

[Doc Dan]

I've had a ruger lcr, ruger Lcp, sig P238, And Glock 42. I absolutely love the Glock 42.

Glock, nuff said.

[ImageX]

The Sig P238 is a great gun. However, if she lacks any real experience.... the best and most safe option imo is a .38 revolver. A Glock is a great gun but striker fired guns need to be handled with great care if there's a round in the chamber... which there should be with a defensive gun. You and/or her may not be comfortable with that.

[dsvirsky]

striker fired guns need to be handled with great care if there's a round in the chamber... which there should be with a defensive gun. You and/or her may not be comfortable with that.

Agree with the round in the chamber and with treating any firearm with great care, but why would you imply striker fired guns are less safe? My primary carry is a Beretta Nano and the inertial striker is blocked from impacting the primer until the trigger is pulled. Glocks use a similar striker block pin. You could bang on the back of these pistol all day without causing the firearm to discharge.

Back on topic, have you checked out the Remington RM380? My wife has trouble racking the slide on most semi-automatics, but she manage easily with the RM380 (also the Sig P238). I haven't shot one, but the reviews have been positive.

[murphjd25]

You guys are awesome! We are going to check out everything you have all recommended this far and see what she likes best. I never thought about racking the slide for her to be a problem but now I'm not sure, we will have to see. I always carry one in the stovepipe, but I am not sure she is going to feel totally safe it might take some time for her. A small revolver is very well a possibility now too. Thanks so much again everyone!

[ImageX]

striker fired guns need to be handled with great care if there's a round in the chamber... which there should be with a defensive gun. You and/or her may not be comfortable with that.

Agree with the round in the chamber and with treating any firearm with great care, but why would you imply striker fired guns are less safe? My primary carry is a Beretta Nano and the inertial striker is blocked from impacting the primer until the trigger is pulled. Glocks use a similar striker block pin. You could bang on the back of these pistol all day without causing the firearm to discharge.

Light trigger and lack of trigger control. Accidental discharges happen all the time and are usually with a striker fired pistol. The heavy trigger action of a revolver is generally safer for a beginner and/or untrained person. It just is.

[Evil D]

Keep in mind there are pros and cons with carrying a revolver as well, and many people don't feel comfortable carrying with a round in front of the hammer, as the hammer can accidentally be hit hard enough to cause a negligent discharge. This is less of an issue if you carry a hammerless/internal hammer revolver.

As far as racking slides, that's going to be different for everyone but my 43 racks about as easily as they come and I would assume the 42 is similar if you're still set on a .380. One way to get around strong recoil springs is to not have to reload/etc in the first place....so maybe something of a higher capacity may be a good idea? Of course then you start getting into fatter grips, so there's compromise somewhere.

[bearfacedkiller]

Keep in mind there are pros and cons with carrying a revolver as well, and many people don't feel comfortable carrying with a round in front of the hammer, as the hammer can accidentally be hit hard enough to cause a negligent discharge. This is less of an issue if you carry a hammerless/internal hammer revolver.

This isn't true unless you are carrying a revolver that is far older than me. Modern revolvers all use either a hammer block or a transfer bar which both make it impossible for the hammer to even touch the firing pin unless the trigger is in the rearward position. Even Ruger's single action revolvers have transfer bars.

[Evil D]

Keep in mind there are pros and cons with carrying a revolver as well, and many people don't feel comfortable carrying with a round in front of the hammer, as the hammer can accidentally be hit hard enough to cause a negligent discharge. This is less of an issue if you carry a hammerless/internal hammer revolver.

This isn't true unless you are carrying a revolver that is far older than me. Modern revolvers all use either a hammer block or a transfer bar which both make it impossible for the hammer to even touch the firing pin unless the trigger is in the rearward position. Even Ruger's single action revolvers have transfer bars.

Well chalk that up as one of the old standards that has been passed down to me for no reason then lol.

[dsvirsky]

[/quote]Light trigger and lack of trigger control. Accidental discharges happen all the time and are usually with a striker fired pistol. The heavy trigger action of a revolver is generally safer for a beginner and/or untrained person. It just is.[/quote]

OK. Thought you were making the comparison with hammer fired semi-automatics. But, what you're referring to are negligent discharges. If your finger was on the trigger, it wasn't an accident.

[Pinetreebbs]

Went thru a similar evolution with my wife. She is petite but can easily and accurately shoot a .45 ACP or 9mm, she just has a little trouble racking the slide. Because of that she carries a Ruger LCR or a Colt Detective Special, 5 or 6 shots respectively. Recently I picked up a purple Ruger LC9s that she really likes. She can manage the slide and when she gets more time with the LC9s on the range it will be her carry pistol. Racking the slide on the LC9c isn't really easier than most similar pistols, however she seemed more motivated since the pistol was a color she likes. Women are different than men, thank goodness, so keep trying. It has to be her choice too.

FWIW, we tried a Walther CCP, easy to rack and an excellent shooter, it just was not reliable. Same thing when my wife shoots my Glock 43 in .380, stovepipe after stovepipe. It's the way she allows a pistol to recoil that makes some pistols jam. This has not been a problem with the Ruger LC9s. I've tried to get it to jam by limp writing it, shooting it upside down sideways and with a loose grip, it has worked every time.

Two other pistols in .380 to consider are the Walther PK380 and the Remington RM380, I have no personal experience with them other than handling the PK380, it is pretty easy to rack.

One negative thing about the excellent Sig P238, it is a single action that must be carried , "cocked and locked" so the shooter must switch off the safety before the pistol will fire, just as a 1911. There are many people who have successfully carried and deployed 1911 single actions, however safety discipline must be learned. This is not required on modern defensive pistols or revolvers.

[Pinetreebbs]

.380 (9x17) is a capable round, certain ammo being on par with the 9mm (9x19). Terminal ballistics data is available, as well as data related to percentage shot vs percent incapacitated/killed. In the latter, I believe that only shots where the attacker was incapacitated immediately are tallied.

Here's a great article: http://www.policemag.com/channel/weapon ... ities.aspx

I usually carry an M&P 40, but sometimes opt for a S&W Bodyguard chambered for .380 automatic. It is a fine firearm, which I do not feel "under gunned" carrying.

Great article on the myth of stopping power, it is indeed a lot of BS. All one need to do is read a few Medal of Honor accounts. Some of them suffered multiple horrific wounds from shrapnel and rifle rounds yet kept fighting or saving lives.

The link to a YouTube video below features an interview of Chicago policeman Bob Stash by Massad Ayoob. His real life account of his first gunfight also breaks apart a lot of stopping power notions.

In his first shooting, he and his partner each hit a perp multiple times. His initial shot was at about 12 feet, and his last two were at about 6 feet. His last shot blew out the perp's knee which finally brought him down. The perp later died from the multiple wounds. After that shooting, Bob and his partner trained to make head shots to better assure a quicker stop.

https://youtu.be/Yd3v_fssabI

[bearfacedkiller]

First off, my EDC is a .380 and I do believe it is adequate. I also agree that shot placement is paramount. That applies to both SD defense and hunting. However I think it is a stretch to compare the .380 to the 9mm. My usual shooting range is the woods and my usual target holder is a dead tree. Having put many, many rounds of both 9mm and .380 into tons of dead standing trees I can say that the difference is significant. Even the hottest .380 ammo doesn't compare to cheap 9mm ammo in my experience. Do I think that a .380 will stop somebody with good shot placement? Of course. Do I think that a 9mm can fail to stop somebody with poor shot placement? Absolutely. This should be obvious but that does not change the fact that the 9mm throws a heavier bullet faster and that it will create a larger wound.

[DBDEV1]

Great article on the myth of stopping power, it is indeed a lot of BS. All one need to do is read a few Medal of Honor accounts. Some of them suffered multiple horrific wounds from shrapnel and rifle rounds yet kept fighting or saving lives.

The link to a YouTube video below features an interview of Chicago policeman Bob Stash by Massad Ayoob. His real life account of his first gunfight also breaks apart a lot of stopping power notions.

In his first shooting, he and his partner each hit a perp multiple times. His initial shot was at about 12 feet, and his last two were at about 6 feet. His last shot blew out the perp's knee which finally brought him down. The perp later died from the multiple wounds. After that shooting, Bob and his partner trained to make head shots to better assure a quicker stop.

https://youtu.be/Yd3v_fssabI

Pinetreebbs, thanks for the link! Mass is definitely an authority on the subject, and his work is what got me interested in the legal aspects regarding the use of force. As far as "stopping power" goes, I think the MOH heroes effectively put that myth to rest :D

The worst part is reading about the general public's misconceptions of "kills" vs. "stops." To BFK's point, many calibers/ammo types will do the job of killing the attacker - eventually; But that isn't good enough, at least not as long as we plan to walk away from the attack still breathing (I know I do!).

I think this is one reason we all agree that shot placement is so crucial to actually stopping a threat from engaging in his/her deadly intentions. Fortunately, most of us are well beyond the caliber debates. Personally, I am happy to see people taking their safety seriously and carrying any functional/reliable firearm. In my opinion, two of the most important aspects of choosing an EDC firearm are reliability & usability.

If you are comfortable shooting/carrying it, are willing to take time to train with it & it goes "bang" every time you pull the trigger, then you're on the right track, IMHO!

Nice to see other firearm enthusiasts on here, BTW :spyder:

[DBDEV1]

Agree with the round in the chamber and with treating any firearm with great care, but why would you imply striker fired guns are less safe? My primary carry is a Beretta Nano and the inertial striker is blocked from impacting the primer until the trigger is pulled. Glocks use a similar striker block pin. You could bang on the back of these pistol all day without causing the firearm to discharge.

Although safety is never a bad thing, I am also a bit perplexed by that statement. M&Ps and Glocks are some of safest firearms I've owned. In fact, my carry firearms (M&P 40, sometimes M&P bodyguard) are always chambered*. I only unload them to clean or hand to another trusted individual.
*When not physically on my person, they're locked up in a strong box. No children in the house, but safety always comes first. :D

Even some non-striker fired weapons, like the 1911 (for example), are designed to be carried chambered with the hammer "cocked and locked," so to speak. This is perfectly safe to do with a reliable firearm like my SIG-Sauer 1911. In general, the instruction manual should advise you whether or not it is safe to carry the firearm in the chambered condition.

Many moons ago, I acquired a cheap Loricin pistol ($30 at a gun show - couldn't pass it up), in its manual, the company specifically said it was unsafe to carry chambered. When all else fails, contact your friendly neighbor dealer/gunsmith for advice. They're usually happy to help other "gun folk."

Like dsv said, a defensive firearm should be carried in this fashion. It is very safe to do so with modern firearms, especially striker fired and 1911 style pistols.

[Evil D]

I have no fear carrying my Glocks with a round in the chamber and I wouldn't carry them any other way. Trigger discipline is extremely important. If you think a negligent discharge can't happen to you, then it's going to happen to you. Ask me how I know.

[chuck_roxas45]

I have no fear carrying my Glocks with a round in the chamber and I wouldn't carry them any other way. Trigger discipline is extremely important. If you think a negligent discharge can't happen to you, then it's going to happen to you. Ask me how I know.

When man makes something foolproof, nature makes a better fool. :D

[Evil D]

I have no fear carrying my Glocks with a round in the chamber and I wouldn't carry them any other way. Trigger discipline is extremely important. If you think a negligent discharge can't happen to you, then it's going to happen to you. Ask me how I know.

When man makes something foolproof, nature makes a better fool. :D

I'm basically a living breathing walking example of that cycle :D

[chuck_roxas45]

I have no fear carrying my Glocks with a round in the chamber and I wouldn't carry them any other way. Trigger discipline is extremely important. If you think a negligent discharge can't happen to you, then it's going to happen to you. Ask me how I know.

When man makes something foolproof, nature makes a better fool. :D

I'm basically a living breathing walking example of that cycle :D

Aren't we all? :D

[Studey]

The Bodyguard .380 has a truly horrendous trigger pull. As in, she probably won't enjoy practicing with it.

Revolvers are simple, but since most people are recommending a .38 J frame, they're also much more difficult to shoot and much less enjoyable to practice with.

Something like a Shield or G43 may be easy enough for her to manipulate while still being a good balance of carryability and shootability.


Find a range that will let you two handle and fire multiple weapons, and let her choose what she likes and thinks will work for her. Guys picking out guns for the women in their lives frequently leads to issues. Be a voice of experience for her, but help to make it her choice.

[Doc Dan]

It is interesting to listen to what actual, versus theoretical, gun fight survivors have to say. Years ago Fairbairn had some interesting insights. He said bullets moving at 1400+ fps caused a lot of damage while FMJ 45 ACP often failed to stop a criminal. Still, he recommended, based upon a lot of experience, a 45 ACP semi-auto (as it was the best at the time) and he considered it superior (based upon a lot of experience) to the revolver because of he ease of shots placed on target and reloading in case of a failure to stop.

Jim Cirrilo used his department issue .38 Special in the many gunfights he was involved in when working for the NYC stakeout squad. Now, in this radio conversation with Mas Ayoob, Bob Stasch said that the large bore semi-auto is a top choice but modern 9mm+P is also as good and that is what Stasch carries off duty. FBI research, and other research, has shown no difference in terminal performance with modern 9mm ammunition, 45 ACP, and 40 S&W. Any of these would make a person well armed. I also like what the surgeon said in the article above that it is shot placement with the slow moving (less than 1500 fps) rounds that matters (note that the doctor and Fairbairn were in agreement regarding high velocity based on experience). I know for certain that a shot from a .380 well placed will do the job and I know personally of a cop who shot a man at mere inches with a full power 240 gr 44 Mag dead center of the chest and did not stop him. So, there you go.