Is there any good reason the Ouroboros is $167?

[sal]

Nicely said PaleMoon. Thanx for the kind words about our company.

sal

[sal]

Sal, or anyone else, how does Spyderco choose which location for a particular model/design? For example, why would this one be made in Japan vs. golden, China, Taiwan, etc.? Obviously, if the design dictates Japanese steel, then Japan is the best bet, but what about other knives or designs that are not steel-restrictive?

Compare the upcoming Rhino to the upcoming Ouroboros. They seem fairly similar in timeframe, complexity, and materials (smallish, comp lock, g10, stainless steels, etc.), and I'd have a tough time believing either factory were unable to produce either design, so what factors led to one going to China and the other Japan, and why those locations instead of Spyderco's other factories? Do these factors hold true for all models?

Hi Sabb8pro2,

The first consideration is who has the ability to make the knife. Not all makers can work with all materials. Not all makers can work with certain locks and not all makers can make the very difficult designs like the Nirvana.

The second consideration is who has capacity. All of our makers as well as our facility in Golden are not very large and have limited capacity.

sal

[sabb8pro2]

Sal,
Thanks so much for the reply. I've been thinking a lot about this today. If I may, what other considerations follow the second? I know every case is different so there probably isn't a clear answer, but I'd be interested in any insights you can give.

It seems important to me bc of the design potential. What would a pm2 from seki city look like? Or a superleaf made in golden? If the police model were made in Taiwan would it have done/do as well as it has? Or better?

[araneae]

I'm in the same boat as several others saying that Spydies are seeming to continue trending toward higher prices and away from my price range. This is one model I was very much looking forward to, but It's over my general rule of $150 as my knife ceiling. It looks like a refined, well thought out knife design that should be a good user. Could I buy it if I really felt I needed to? Yes. Will I? Probably not. I have other knives that will do the same job and cost me (much) less. I am still very interested in the design and would love to put some scratches on one. I keep hoping to see more "value line" folders in the catalog, a solid usable design in decent materials is more important to me than super steels with CF, Ti and custom level finish. I recognize that those things matter, and apparently to enough people that the line is trending that direction.

I am personally waiting for the introvert to drop, knowing it won't be cheap, guessing $180 something. I was interested in the design since I played with the proto at blade a few years back. Also, it was designed by a fellow forumite and I have chatted with him about the knife. I will probably go well over my $150 limit for that one, catch some real heck from my wife and have 2nd thoughts about spending that much, but I will rationalize it as supporting a forum friend and a very interesting knife. At that price, I will hope that the design earns a place in my user rotation, I don't need a $180 place holder in my knife drawer. Having picked up the HAP manbug, ladybug and dfly, planning for the Introverrt means I may be done with new Spydie buying for the year, despite there being lots of cool stuff in the catalog.

Maybe I can try to snag an Ouroboros at a seconds sale if I am lucky enough to go again...

[bh49]

About that. I would very much like to work summers at Edgeworks in Frederick MD (aka Tyrdle heaven.) It would help a little if I was legally old enough for a MD worker's permit....You have to be fourteen. But one advantage of being 3 years away from work is that I still get money from birthdays. (Remember that? Free money once a year!)

Are you eleven? Seriously? Very impressive than. Eleven years old into Spyderco.
And yes, I remember b-day money. Still getting them once every year. They were my funding for Spyderco, when I was 49 :)
Don't you think that Mamba will be too big for 11 years old hand? :D Unless you are six feet tall at 11 :eek:

[Tyrdle]

About that. I would very much like to work summers at Edgeworks in Frederick MD (aka Tyrdle heaven.) It would help a little if I was legally old enough for a MD worker's permit....You have to be fourteen. But one advantage of being 3 years away from work is that I still get money from birthdays. (Remember that? Free money once a year!)

Are you eleven? Seriously? Very impressive than. Eleven years old into Spyderco.
And yes, I remember b-day money. Still getting them once every year. They were my funding for Spyderco, when I was 49 :)
Don't you think that Mamba will be too big for 11 years old hand? :D Unless you are six feet tall at 11 :eek:

Of course it will be too big. :D :D But do you think I'll care? It will be an awesome knife nonetheless. And I will definitely keep it for years to come when it won't be too big anymore.

[Blerv]

Blade length has little to do with manufacturing costs if you think about it.

[sal]

Sal,
Thanks so much for the reply. I've been thinking a lot about this today. If I may, what other considerations follow the second? I know every case is different so there probably isn't a clear answer, but I'd be interested in any insights you can give.

When a maker is at capacity, it means that they cannot make more than the models they are making without dropping some models. Increasing capacity in knife-making is difficult. Training skilled workers, more expensive equipment, etc. Many makers reach a comfortable size and then just seek to fill their capacity each year. That's one of the reasons for discontinuing models. Dropping a slower selling model to make available capacity.

It seems important to me bc of the design potential. What would a pm2 from seki city look like? Or a superleaf made in golden? If the police model were made in Taiwan would it have done/do as well as it has? Or better?

It's kind of an unwritten rule among knife factories that one does not take a model from one factory and give it to another. We've done it a few times but the situation required that. Some large corps won't take on a knife vendor that sticks to one factory / model because if an item is hot and they have many stores, they don't want to deal with limited capacity. We've been turned down by some large corps for not using more than one factory to make the same model. It doesn't seem to be the case with Chinese knife-makers.

sal

[sal]

On the pricing issue, it is a problem that we are aware of, but wages and materials in other countries may not be as stagnant as here. They raise their prices pretty regularly. That's why most knife companies have gone to China for their production knives, where the Yuan is very low. Trying to lower price without lowering quality is challenging to be sure.

sal

[swigert]

Sal,
Thanks so much for the reply. I've been thinking a lot about this today. If I may, what other considerations follow the second? I know every case is different so there probably isn't a clear answer, but I'd be interested in any insights you can give.

When a maker is at capacity, it means that they cannot make more than the models they are making without dropping some models. Increasing capacity in knife-making is difficult. Training skilled workers, more expensive equipment, etc. Many makers reach a comfortable size and then just seek to fill their capacity each year. That's one of the reasons for discontinuing models. Dropping a slower selling model to make available capacity.

It seems important to me bc of the design potential. What would a pm2 from seki city look like? Or a superleaf made in golden? If the police model were made in Taiwan would it have done/do as well as it has? Or better?

It's kind of an unwritten rule among knife factories that one does not take a model from one factory and give it to another. We've done it a few times but the situation required that. Some large corps won't take on a knife vendor that sticks to one factory / model because if an item is hot and they have many stores, they don't want to deal with limited capacity. We've been turned down by some large corps for not using more than one factory to make the same model. It doesn't seem to be the case with Chinese knife-makers.

sal

NO matter what you think about the price on this one I hope everyone here realizes how crazy it is that someone like Sal and in Sals shoes would choose to educate us and share like this with us. NO other company on Spydercos scale in the knife world does this.

Recognize this for what it is.

[chuck_roxas45]

NO matter what you think about the price on this one I hope everyone here realizes how crazy it is that someone like Sal and in Sals shoes would choose to educate us and share like this with us. NO other company on Spydercos scale in the knife world does this.

Recognize this for what it is.

Word!!

[bh49]

NO matter what you think about the price on this one I hope everyone here realizes how crazy it is that someone like Sal and in Sals shoes would choose to educate us and share like this with us. NO other company on Spydercos scale in the knife world does this.
Recognize this for what it is.

It is recognized and appreciated at least by majority.
I do not consider this crazy, but humble and decent. There is nobody else like Sal.
Also keep in the mind that we are not customers, who bought one Delica, we are spydernuts (Michael, sorry to bringing up this term) and probably deserve some times some answers for many years of worshiping the brand.

[bh49]

It's kind of an unwritten rule among knife factories that one does not take a model from one factory and give it to another.
sal

Thank you very much Sir,
This completely clarify The Caly story. Sad for us, all Caly fans.

[swigert]

It's kind of an unwritten rule among knife factories that one does not take a model from one factory and give it to another.
sal

Thank you very much Sir,
This completely clarify The Caly story. Sad for us, all Caly fans.

Yup this does say a lot about the Caly.

[dplafoll]

It's kind of an unwritten rule among knife factories that one does not take a model from one factory and give it to another.
sal

Thank you very much Sir,
This completely clarify The Caly story. Sad for us, all Caly fans.

This right here. We can only hope that maker gets it together and can make quality knives again in the future and we get our Caly back.

[sabb8pro2]

Thanks so much Sal.

[palonej]

Said it many times, but it behooves me to keep on saying it.......thanks Sal.
Joe

[BostonTom]

I found this thread very interesting.

I will say that Sal is a businessman first, but also just does the right thing.

[elena86]

I would say Sal is first and foremost a visionary and great designer.I will stay with Spyderco as long as Sal will keep designing knives.I understand the idea behind colabs and ethnic series but Sal's in-house designs are behind my compulsory need to purchase spydies.Thank you Sal.

[bh49]

I would say Sal is first and foremost a visionary and great designer.I will stay with Spyderco as long as Sal will keep designing knives.I understand the idea behind colabs and ethnic series but Sal's in-house designs are behind my compulsory need to purchase spydies.Thank you Sal.

+1
All except one of my EDCs are designed by Sal or Eric. I EDC Spydercos over 10 years and during this time I bought several BMs, Kershaws and ZT. All of them except 0561 are gone. Ergos are not even close to my Spydies. So far I didn't find EDCs which are better or equal to my N5 or Caly3/3.5.