Mad Mac wrote:tvenuto wrote:...He was struggling with the concept of making them say it, and then they just say it because you're "supposed to." And then think of it from the other side, which is to say: why does that person need the thank you? If you hold the door for someone, and you don't get a thank you, did you get offended? Doesn't that mean you weren't really performing a selfless act? There was actually a transaction in place: you did something nice, and that person had to acknowledge it. Anyway it's a whole rabbit hole to go down, and there's no right answer of course...
...There are of course pluses and minuses to both formality--which could also be called rigidity or oppression--as well as "individualism" (if you have a better word, feel free)--which could also be called rudeness or even bedlam...
I'll get in that rabbit hole with you. There is a right answer.
The word that we are looking for is "disrespect".
That is of course a disadvantage, but that's not exactly what I meant. We live in a time where you are probably most able to be yourself, and that's a good thing, generally. You're able to practice whatever religion you want, for example. That's not always been the case, and although your neighbors may all be a certain religion, you're free to not do what they do, even if that might bother them. You can also dress differently, wear your hair differently, etc. I'm saying that when there is less social pressure on the "big things," sometimes the "small things" (pleases and thank yous) can get lost as well.
So one end of the spectrum is being mortified at being at all different from your neighbors, and agonizing over what those around you think of you and maybe even facing violence if you differ from them. This is what I called formality/rigidity/oppression. The other end is not giving a darn about what anyone thinks of you, which I called individualism/rudeness/bedlam. The pendulum swings back and forth, and we've swung far to the individualism side at the moment, but my point was that there are advantages and disadvantages to both, and in my opinion, there is no singe "correct" place to be.
Mad Mac wrote:Have you ever held the door open and the next person walks past you without looking at you, without thanking you and without even putting a hand up to catch the door. Didn't you want to punch him in the face and knock him out. Now that's a transaction.
It's the difference between the old "do unto others" routine and being a user. Elevating yourself above others and expecting deferential treatment shows disrespect, contempt and disdain for the other. It is an insult and a loss of honor to the person being used.
Sure, it could have been simple inattentiveness and not deliberate,
in which case just let the door hit'em. That'll wake'm up.
My "rabbit hole" discussion is about what is it inside of me that elicits that reaction? If I hold the door open for someone, and they walk through it without having to touch it, wasn't my goal fulfilled? Success! If I'm disappointed in the lack of thank you to the level of wanting to punch someone, then why am I so wrapped up in that? Do I need a reward for doing a nice deed, and if so, am I just doing the deed for the reward and not actually to be nice? And of course I'm not saying it's wrong to be mad about it, it's just an interesting discussion that deserves a few beers, a campfire, and a cigar or two.
Mad Mac wrote:Respect, civility, allows society to move about harmoniously and efficiently.
It absolutely does, no argument there.