Wouldn't a Manix 2 LW in H1 be awesome?

[Donut]

The rust seen in that thread is because the older ones didn't have the production process tuned and possibly all the hardware made to resist rust.

I bet if she got a new one and took it around the world, it wouldn't have that rust.

[Evil D]

The rust seen in that thread is because the older ones didn't have the production process tuned and possibly all the hardware made to resist rust.

I bet if she got a new one and took it around the world, it wouldn't have that rust.

When I took my Dragonfly Salt to Florida and played in the ocean with it, I did get a very very small amount of rust around the pivot but it seemed to come from the pivot washer and not the pin. The blade and the rest of the hardware was spotless after a week of getting in and out of the water everyday for hours at a time and never rinsing off the salt water.

[Cujobob]

I think a Manix 2 in H1 is a very niche product that wouldn't sell well. Outside of diving, I think H1 is overkill for corrosion resistance at the cost of edge retention. Plenty of nitrogen steels can hold up to regular use in conditions where salt and such can cause corrosion concerns.

I think it really depends on what your level of contact with salt water really is. You may live by the coast and do a lot of recreation in the ocean and never need the level of rust prevention that H1 provides, but what if you're out on a boat in the ocean for extended periods of time with only the tools you have? Do you wanna take a chance on rust happening, or is that extra peace of mind worth having? Personally I'd rather have to touch up my knife more often and know it won't rust, than have what could be a negligible amount of extra edge retention and end up with a rusty pivot.

A great example..
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=70284


But yeah, I do agree that this is a very extreme example and that most of us don't need that level of rust prevention. But, there's always a place for steels like this. On the other side of the spectrum, there isn't anything truly unique about something like Super Blue that any of us "need", but we accept the possibility of rust just to have the steel. People who like H1 just accept that it doesn't hold an edge as well as other steels but they're happy with the trade off of never having to worry about rust. You or I may never really appreciate that need or want for all out rust protection, but obviously people do since the Salt knives seem to be great sellers.

If I were given a choice between some of the older steel choices like 440 or AUS6/8 or BD1 or GEN1 and all those early steels that Spyderco use, I'd just assume take H1 and have that corrosion resistance, since the edge retention isn't going to be so much better with those steels, if at all.

I understand where you're coming from, but for those people, options do exist. I think there's a greater need for lefty only products than there would be for extreme saltwater enthusiasts to have more options. Fixed blades in H1 make more sense imho... Once you reach a certain sized product.

[Donut]

The rust seen in that thread is because the older ones didn't have the production process tuned and possibly all the hardware made to resist rust.

I bet if she got a new one and took it around the world, it wouldn't have that rust.

When I took my Dragonfly Salt to Florida and played in the ocean with it, I did get a very very small amount of rust around the pivot but it seemed to come from the pivot washer and not the pin. The blade and the rest of the hardware was spotless after a week of getting in and out of the water everyday for hours at a time and never rinsing off the salt water.

That's pretty interesting. I've been in several pools with chlorine and the ocean dozens of times with my Dragonfly salts and haven't seen anything like that.

[Surfingringo]

But yeah, I do agree that this is a very extreme example and that most of us don't need that level of rust prevention. But, there's always a place for steels like this. On the other side of the spectrum, there isn't anything truly unique about something like Super Blue that any of us "need", but we accept the possibility of rust just to have the steel. People who like H1 just accept that it doesn't hold an edge as well as other steels but they're happy with the trade off of never having to worry about rust. You or I may never really appreciate that need or want for all out rust protection, but obviously people do since the Salt knives seem to be great sellers.

Good points David.

[Surfingringo]

The rust seen in that thread is because the older ones didn't have the production process tuned and possibly all the hardware made to resist rust.

I bet if she got a new one and took it around the world, it wouldn't have that rust.

When I took my Dragonfly Salt to Florida and played in the ocean with it, I did get a very very small amount of rust around the pivot but it seemed to come from the pivot washer and not the pin. The blade and the rest of the hardware was spotless after a week of getting in and out of the water everyday for hours at a time and never rinsing off the salt water.

That's pretty interesting. I've been in several pools with chlorine and the ocean dozens of times with my Dragonfly salts and haven't seen anything like that.

I don't think they have changed the washers Brian. The issue persists even on my newer salts but it takes a pretty extreme amount of exposure to see it. For example, I take mine on the water for 5-6 hours a day. They sit in the brine the whole time. I rinse them when I get in about half the time and the other half they just get thrown in the sink, salty and bloody. Even that treatment is not enough to cause the "bleeding" that you see in the picture of the Tasman. The only way I have ever seen that is to keep the knife for weeks or months in a wet and salty compartment of the kayak without using it.

[Evil D]

Mine wasn't near as obvious as that Tasman, I actually had to take mine apart and inspect the washers to find rust. I'll have to see if I can find the pics.

[Surfingringo]

Mine wasn't near as obvious as that Tasman, I actually had to take mine apart and inspect the washers to find rust. I'll have to see if I can find the pics.

Yeah, I can see some mild corrosion on the washers if I examine them closely but I don't get that bleeding rust unless the knife sits dormant in the salt for weeks or months. None of it affects function in any way. I have been using my Pacific Salt for years now everyday in the saltwater and it works like it did new and you almost need a loupe to even see the rust on the washers. That said, I'd still vote for a change in washer material if they can do it without significantly impacting production cost.

[PolarisDesu]

Wouldn't a Manix 2 LW in H1 be awesome?

I would buy it right away....

CTS BD1 is arguably comparable to H1 in edge retention, and even though most people got "used" (Or as I would say, spoiled) to high end steels with an extreme hardness level with crazy carbides that hold edges for unnatural amounts of times, talking from the perspective of a CTS BD1 user, the edge retention is still acceptable. I recently got my second knife, a S110V Manix 2 and blame me for my sharpening ignorance, but I find it tedious and painful to get that thing sharper than how it comes from factory. Which I can achieve on the CTS BD1 steel within a matter of seconds or a minute max... And by no means I resharpen my CTS BD1 every 4 hours. I would wait for like 2 weeks before resharpening the CTS BD1 to hair popping levels, and I use it at work. (It loses hair popping sharpness within 3 days, but it still holds a good edge able to easily cut paper)

It is very clear how underrated corrosion resistance is for knife steels nowadays. I like all the features from the M4 steel, and there is a knife called Mantra 2 with it, I wanted to have that knife, they even send money raised from that knife to a foundation, but I won't get it, because that steel has no chance, unless it is in a shelf, which I am not really interested of.

I do not live on a boat, we can say I like the ocean a lot, but I want a H1 steel knife mostly because of the ease of mind provided by that corrosion resistance. Edge? I can take care of that, but the steel integrity if I have to leave the knife unattended due to X reason for a long period of time? I don't know about that.

[rybu0305]

Or LC200. Then we could still have ffg.

[dreadpirate]

Hmmm ... you might be on to something.

[ThePeacent]

I wish...

[vivi]

I'd buy a Manix in either H1 or LC200N. Or an XL.

I'm glad to see others starting to place more value on corrosion resistance. I value it more than edge holding. I can't think of any Spyderco I've used that had such poor edge holding I would not carry the knife, but lack of corrosion resistance has made me shelve certain favorites for months at a time while my Salts rule my pockets.

[freebird610]

LC200n any color other than yellow preferably.